Sir John Sinclair faid, he now rofe to fubmit to the House his ideas of this Bill, concerning which, in its prefent shape, he entertained fome apprehenfion. He lamented that the House, in the prefent critical fituation of public affairs, was deprived of the affiftance of fome very refpectable Members, who formerly used punctually to attend to the business of the Houfe. He was forry that thofe Gentlemen had thought proper to abandon their duty. He had been at the pains to examine into the records of Parliament to fee if there were any precedents for a fimilar proceeding ---(Here the Speaker interrupted Sir John Sinclair, and obferved that the point to which he alluded was foreign from the fubject before the Houfe) Sir John Sinclair proceeded to his remarks upon the Bill. He faid, that he doubted much whether the Bill would be attended with the good effect expected from it. It was a measure tending to expatriate the British Navy. He was defirous that before they paffed the Rubicon, and adopted so strong a measure as the prefent, that they would endeavour to unite menace with conciliation. He wished that fpecial Commiffioners fhould be appointed, with power to grant a pardon to those who should return to their duty and obedience. Without fomething of this kind, he could not affent to the measure.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer hoped the Houfe would do him the juftice to recollect that in opening the nature of the meafure to the Houfe, he had stated, that it was intended that it fhould contain fome provifion to the effect which the worthy Baronet had fuggefted. But while the Seamen continued in acts of mutiny and rebellion against his Majefty's Government, in open hoftility to their country, in acts of flagrant outrage upon its commerce, could it be doubted for a moment that they ought to be cut off from all regular intercoure with that country whose cause they had deferted, whose dignity they had infulted, and whose interests they had attacked? If the obfervation, that the Rubicon was paffed, applied to the prefent cafe, it was to those who had been guilty of open violation of the laws, and hoftile attacks upon the exiftence and conftitution of their Country, not to the conduct of the Legislature that was about to enact provifions to fubdue rebellion. The act itself was intended to hold out exceptions from penalties to those who should return to their duty. The general prerogatives of the Crown authorize it to foften the rigour of the laws, and its accustomed lenity would doubtless on such an occafion as the prefent induce his Majefty to exercise that right when the occafion demanded. It might be proper in the Committee to render this principle more explicit, and when the House refolved itself into a Committee, it was his intention to propofe the infertion of words to the following effect: That if any individuals, or parts of crews,

fhould

should either collectively, or individually, return to their duty, there should be an inftant power vefted in the Admiralty, to exempt them from all the pains and penalties of the Bill." Thefe regulations might perhaps fatisfy the worthy Baronet fo far as regarded the object he was defirous to promote. If, however, the worthy Baronet was hoftile to the general policy of the measure, no obfervation of his could have any effect, if the general neceffity of the cafe did not imprefs upon his mind.

Mr. Jolliffe was furprised that his Honourable Friend could think of treating in any manner with men who were in open rebellion against their country, and upon reflection he was fure he would be aware of the impropriety of any fuch proceeding. On an occafion fo critical as the prefent, it was the duty of the House to affift the Executive Government to repress and restrain the mutinous and rebellious conduct of the Seamen. At the fame time it was the duty of the Executive Government to use, with moderation, the great powers with which it was intrufted. By agreeing to the prefent measure, they were not, however, to be tied down from inquiry into its neceffity and the caufes by which it was produced. He thought that if there was dispatch required for the Bill paffed on Saturday, there was much greater difpatch requifite for the prefent, and therefore if no other perfon did, he should afterwards move for its being read a third time this day.

Mr. M. A. Taylor faid, that he had fome doubts whether the prefent Bill would anfwer the purpofes intended; but that he fhould leave to the Executive Government. As far as his vote went he should support the Executive Government in any meafure that was to bring to a fenfe of their duty those wicked and rebellious Seamen who had conducted themselves in fo daring a manner. But in fupporting this Bill, he by no means meant to pass by the conduct of thofe, whofe errors had, in his opinion, brought us to this fituation. For the prefent, however, he would give every affiftance in his power to Government, to enable them to reftore order and fubordination, and to bring thofe men to a fenfe of their mifconduct, and the danger of perfifting in it. So far they fhould have his fupport; and he prayed to God they might be fuccessful. This vote, however, was not to preclude any investigation of the circumftances by which this unfortunate ftate of things had been produced. With regard to the conduct of certain Honourable Friends of his he fhould fay nothing, as it was foreign to the prefent fubject. He was convinced, however, that the public would judge of their conduct and their motives as he did.

Sir John Sinclair waved his objection to the Speaker's leaving the Chair.

9 U 2

The

The Houfe refolved itself into a Committee.

The Bill was read over claufe by claufe, and the clause that enacts that the declaration of the Lords of the Admiralty (being fo empowered by the Act), that any fhips' crews, &c. are in a ftate of mutiny and rebellion and prohibiting all intercourfe with the fame under certain penalties, fhould be published in the Gazette and Dock-yards.

Mr. Baker thought, that the declaration fhould, to give it greater publicity, be published at the Royal Exchange, at which, from the affemblage of people, and the connexion they had with the fea-ports, the declaration might be more generally known.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, he conceived it unneceffary to enact more than the Bill contained on this point. Doubtless the Executive Government would have every motive to give the matter the utmost publicity.

it being propofed to fill up the penal claufe, and to enact that the puniinment for wilful and advifed communication with the fhips' crews declared to be in a state of mutiny should be death, as in cafes of felony, without benefit of clergy,

Mir. Nichols faid, he fhould not oppofe filling up this blank in the manner propofed; but the vote he gave was a vote of confidence, for he, had no information to act upon. He confefled, however, that he was a little staggered at the extent of this claufe. There could be no doubt but that many parts of the conduct of the mutineers amounted to treason; but he wished to be informed (for he was not converfant with the criminal laws) whether, to converíe or communicate with a person in rebellion, without giving them aid or affiftance, was, by the Law of England, treafon? He thought it better only to make this crime a high misdemeanor.

Mr. Serjeant Adair faid, that the penalty was only to attach to those who fhould hold intercourfe and communication, after the publication of the declaration that the men were in a state of mutiny, and the prohibition to hold intercourse with them. Most of the acts specified in the claufe, and there prohibited, were already high treafon, and any communication carried on without leave could not be innocent. When the fhips' crews, &c. ceased to be in a state of rebellion, then the penalty for holding communication with them likewife ceafed. The provifions were in their very nature temporary, and ceased with the causes by which they were produced.

The Attorney General contended, that the Bill was necef fary for the falvation of the country, and that the measure was one of found genuine lenity and humanity. He particularly requested the attention of the Honourable Baronet opposite to him,

to

to what he was going to obferve. The crimes fpecified, and to which the Bill was to attach, conftituted the most aggravated rebellion, felony and piracy, and by the exifting laws of the country were liable to be punished as fuch. It was therefore the duty of every Member not to attach the epithet of severe to the prefent measure, without giving it the most attentive confideration. If the Bill did indeed deferve to be called a fevere one, the Honourable Baronet muft go much beyond the present law, and unmake half the law of the country. It was a humane and seasonable notification that the character of our prefent laws were fuch as he had defcribed; it was rescuing the deluded feamen from the deception of their own minds; it was withdrawing them from the influence of the gang of confpirators by whom they had been feduced; it was informing those who, from falfe humanity, might be difpofed to put the deluded men in poffeffion of the means of continuing in practices which muft involve them in inevitable ruin, and expofe themselves to the fevereft penalties of the exifting laws of their country. The prohibition laid upon every fpecies of communication might perhaps be felt by the innocent; but the meafure was not the lefs neceffary on that account. To fufpend the Habeas Corpus Act might lay the innocent under hardihips; but, was that to be compared with the fafety of the State? The question was here, whether, if (as he in his confcience believed) the feamen had been goaded into their prefent conduct by the infamous arts of foul confpirators, they were to interrupt that communication by which their mutiny and rebellion might be cherifhed? There was no reason to apprehend that the Executive Government would carry the application of the law beyond juftice and neceffity.

Mr. Nicholls faid, that he ftill thought the punishment for communication with the fleet, under fome particular circumftances, would be too fevere in making it felony of death; he was of opinion that a misdemeanor, liable to the punishment of transportation, would be quite fufficient.

Mr. Baker exprefled his furprife, that after what had already paffed, any Gentleman could think of speaking in favour of conciliatory measures. He thought ftrong measures alone could reftore the deluded feamen to a fenfe of their duty. He faid they ought to have been satisfied with what had fatisfied their brethren at Portsmouth, and as they were not, the present Bill had his decided approbation.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid that no perfons could now hold any communication with those men without being conscious that he was acting wrong; then what objection could there be to prohibiting it after notice? That fuch a prohibition

was

was abfolutely neceflary, appeared to him not to admit of a doubt. It was faid, that the communication might be of an innocent nature; but when Gentlemen confidered how much more danger and mifchief was to be apprehended from bad communication, than benefit from a cominunication of a different nature, they would not, he thought, helitate to enact the general prohibition; recollecting that any means of communication by proper authority, that could tend to reftore those men to a fense of their duty, were not cut off by this Bill. But he confeffed he had a farther intention. He willed to cut off the mu tineers from all connexion with the rest of their countrymen: he wished to separate them from that country from whofe intereft they had feparated the nielves. He wifhed, if no other means were successful, to make use of their private affictions to bring them back to their public duty. The anxiety they might be fuppofed to feel, to correfpond with father, brother, litter, or wife, he fhould confider as a kind of pledge which the country had of their returning to their duty. This was the principle of this Claufe; and, as it tended to open new avenues to theearts of the failors, and gave ftronger profpects of inducing hem to return to their duty, he conceived it a strong argument for the Bill.

Mr. Sergeant Adair, in anfwer to a queftion of Mr. Nichɔls, faid, that any unauthorised communication with men actually allembled together in rebellion, was in the highest degree criminal.

Mr. Taylor faid he should support the claufe; but he felt much for those men and thofe gallant officers who were forcibly detained on board the hips.

Mr. Jefferys faid, that strong measures were neceffary. He did not know if this measure would acomplish the defired object. He fhould not oppofe it, however. He was no advocate for those who had acted in a manner fo unworthy of British feamen.

The clause was then agreed to.

The blank at the end of the third claufe was filled up, with the words "Piracy and Felony."

The Solicitor General propofed that thofe who voluntarily continued in a state of mutiny and rebellion after the above publication, fhould forfeit all the wages due to them, and all the advantages to which they would otherwife have been entitled; and that perfons voluntarily remaining on board after their knowledge of fuch declaration, fhould be liable to the penalties of piracy and felony enacted in the Statute, and 11th of King William, which was agreed to.

A Claufe was brought up in the room of the former one, and

the