witness of the state of Negroes there, which alone could enable him to form a juft judgment on the fubject. Agreeing with the Honourable Gentleman in the principle that the trade fhould be abolished, he would infift that the Bill propofed by him would, in its very nature, be impracticable, and produce a contraband trade to as great an extent, inftead of the legal trade. He thought it exceedingly improper, that after the Houfe had been nine years debating upon the fubject, an attempt fhould be made to bring in a Bill for the abrupt termination of it. He maintained, that the Slave Trade was beneficial to the inhabitants of the Coast of Africa, and that they derived advantages from it, similar to those we receive with refpect to Botany Bay, and he concluded with giving his negative to the Motion. Mr. Hobhoufe laid, that he would not have troubled the Houfe with a word on a subject which had been so often and fo ably difcuffed: but not having been before this feffion in Parliament, he had not had an opportunity of declaring his fentiments upon the fubject: they were thefe---that fo nefarious a practice as that of trading in the human kind was not to be permitted, pardoned, or palliated; that it admitted of no modification; and that the Abolition of the Slave Trade was called for loudly by every principle of humanity, and every law of God. He was perfectly convinced of the practicability of it, and therefore he fhould heartily fupport the Motion. Mr. Martin faid, that though he had often the mortification. to hear it repeated, he could not help feeling furprised at the ufe Gentlemen made of commercial neceffity and policy in this queftion, which had nothing to do with it: for it was a matter of eternal, unalterable juftice and humanity, and not of commercial convenience. Mr. Sewell faid, this measure was inconfiftent with the Addrefs to the King, alluded to by Mr. Ellis: for if this took place, how could the Planters meliorate the condition of the Slaves? He afferted that the British Planters had an indefeable right to cultivate the foil granted to them by the Crown, and to cultivate it with Negroes, till all the land in the islands was put into a ftate of cultivation. Mr. W. Smith reprobated the idea of the laft fpeaker with respect to the right of carrying on the Slave Trade, till the whole of the Weft India Islands were cultivated. He obferved, that it had continued for upwards of a century and a half in the Ifland of Jamaica, which was not yet above half cultivated, and if we were to go on with the importation of Negroes until the whole was cultivated, another century and a half would be taken up in the gradual abolition. General General Gafcoyne was decidedly in favour of a continuance of the Slave Trade for fome time longer. The Chancellor af the Exchequer faid, that though the fubject had been fo thoroughly difcuffed, that it would be inexcufea ble to take up the time of the House with a repetition of former arguments, he could not refrain from recapitulating two or three points which had fallen from the Gentlemen who opposed the Motion. Firft, he must differ from the Honourable Gentleman who faid, that this measure was inconfiftent with the Addrefs to the King on the fame fubject; on the contrary, he thought, that in their profeffed end they were the fame, though they differed as to the means; and this measure, fo far from counteracting, would aid the gradual abolition. And if the Planters failed of the means of fupplying deficiences in their stock, it would be an incentive to them to meliorate the condition of the Negroes. But though that Addrefs was brought for the profeffed purpose of a gradual abolition, if the Houfe was to truft to the grounds now stated by the Honourable Gentleman, it would appear, that it never could lead to abolition at all. As if the Trade was to continue till all the lands of the Iflands were cultivated, and the House neglected to interfere, it would be making a new colony of Slaves---an idea which all deprecated, or affected to depre cate-for, whether it took place in a new Island, or in an uncultivated part of an old Island, it amounted to the fame thing--it would be establishing, in fact, a new colony of Slaves. The Houfe would, with a little attention, obferve too, in this decla ration of the Honourable Gentleman, more than at first met the fight---they would fee, that his statement, if it did not go to an extenfion of the Trade, would avail nothing: for he had before faid, that when the lands were cultivated, there was no want of population. This, then, fairly led to a conclufive decision, that if the Planters were content with their prefent cultivation, all argument against the abolition was taken away. Another argument made ufe of, was, that Parliament could not stop the Trade. Firft, he would afk, was it likely that example would do nothing?---and next, if it ought to be ftopped, was it enough to fay, that because we could not stop it entirely, we would not ftop it in part, or attempt it at all. When he faw that Gentle men who profeffed to admit the neceffity of abolition some time, or gradually, had never yet shewn a disposition even to limit the importation of Negroes, or proportion it to an average of the decreafing population, he had little hope of a total abolition being effected. He preferred the adoption of the present Motion to that of the Refolution formed by the House before the holidays, inasmuch as the Refolution referred to the gradual termination of the Trade; whereas it was better to try whether we we had it not in our power to deftroy it immediately, without affecting the fafety and fecurity of the Weft Indies. Mr. Bryan Edwards moved for the refolution to be read; after which he vehemently opposed the Bill. He thought Gentlemen should look at home, where there were an abundance of objects in want of relief, as much as the African flaves. There were among others the Chimney Sweepers---a race of blacks. Why did not the House do fomething for them? Sir William Young faid, that the tendency of the prefent Motion was to enact a revolution in the West Indies. General Tarleton opposed the Motion, and vindicated the conduct of the merchants of Liverpool. Mr. Barham contended, that the object of the present Motion was impracticable, and that its only effect would be to defeat the measure that had been already adopted. Sir Wm. Doiben faid, that, in his opinion, the measure now proposed was by no means inimical to the interefts of the West India Planters: he entreated them and the Houfe to remove from themselves the iniquity and ftigma of the Slave Trade, or, at leaft, not to refift the principle of the Bill, but to permit its going into a Committee, where its objectionable, parts might be improved and amended. Mr. Fox faid, that, often as he had troubled the House on the present subject, he could not, after what he had now heard, for bear making a few obfervations. It was at length univerfally allowed, that the African Slave Trade was contrary to every principle of humanity and juftice; yet, on former occafions, the authority of Ariftotle, and of the Greek Philofophers, and even texts of the Sacred Scripture itself, were brought to fupport its juftice. Nor was argument only reforted to, but long chains of evidence were produced, to confirm that opinion. But now that these Gentlemen were brought to allow a contrary principle, they turned their endeavours to fruftrate its effect, from whence he argued little good to the public. For his part, he thought the continuance of the trade, after all that had paffed in that House, must fix an indelible stain on the humanity and honour of the Country; and he would much rather fee all our West India poffeffions loft to us, than that we should retain them by ceafing to wipe off the infamy of this trade. On a former occafion, when Motions were introduced into the Houfe that violated the beft parts of the Conftitution, and abridged the liberties of the fubject, he was feverely accused for ufing the expreffions, "that not refifting fuch measures to him appeared rather matter of prudence than of morality:" But now Gentleman feemed to adopt a language much more forcible, when they afferted, with impunity, that should such a law as as the prefent pafs, wherever a fword could be found, it should be unfheathed to refift it. If fuch language was juftifiable on the prefent occafion, and not that milder language which he had ufed on a much more important point, when there was a quef tion of refigning nothing less than our birth-rights, he must only fuppofe that refiftance was never juftifiable but when it was ufed in fupport of a fyftem of flaves and flavery, while our deareft rights and privileges must be furrendered without a murmur or a struggle. Mr. Fox faid, that the trade in queftion was only connected with a branch of British trade, and as fuch might afluredly be difpofed of by the Houfe, without giving any just cause of exafperation to the Gentlemen more particularly concerned in it; but he defpaired of any reform of this abufe, as much as he did of thofe abufes which we had to complain of at home, unlefs a general fpirit of justice fprung up among us. If, in the prefent inftance, the Houfe paid any regard to its character, it would prove to the public that its proceedings, at length, began to be animated by that fpirit which would not permit them to leave to the difcretion of others the performance of a talk which they themselves were bound in duty, and which they poffeffed the power, to perform. The Houfe divided on Mr. Wilberforce's Motion, Adjourned. Ayes 74 82 Majority against it 8 HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. Gore Langton moved for leave to prefent a Petition from John Palmer, Efq. praying for leave to present another Petition, (the time for receiving private Petitions being expired.) The Petition was brought up and read. It stated the grievances of which Mr. Palmer complained: it reprefented, that he had by great labour and industry improved the revenue of the Post Office to a very large amount, that in confequence of such improvement he was to have a per centage on the Poft Office revenue beyond a certain amount, which ftipulation had not been complied with. The Speaker faid, that the Petitioner had not confined himfelf to the statement of the reafons for prefenting another Petition, but had entered into the circumftances of his cafe; that no Petion could be received, the tendency of which was to obtain Public Money, without a recommendation from the Crown. Upon the queftion for receiving the fecond Petition, the Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, every perfon must see that the tendency of the Petition was fuch as had been defcribed by the Speaker. At the fame time, though he did not feel it to be his duty to recommend it from the Crown, yet he could not have any objection to the investigation of the circumstances stated in it. Mr. Sheridan obferved, that upon a fubject in which the Right Honourable Gentleman was perfonally concerned, he could not but with for investigation. Mr. Palmer had, in his opinion, done more for the public revenue than any other man. He hoped therefore, that the Papers would be referred to a Committee, and moved for a copy of the warrant of appointment of Mr. Palmer as Comptroller General of the Poft Officee. Mr. Sheridan's Motion was agreed to, and the Motion for bringing up the second Petition was withdrawn. INCREASE OF PAY TO THE ARMY. The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave notice that on Monday next he should move certain propofitions for bettering the condition of the Army and Militia. Mr. W. Smith faid, if it was regular he wished to move for Copies of the Notice given to the Guards upon the subject of the intended improvement in their fituation. Mr. Grey faid it was understood that a notice had been given of fuch a design in confequence of the recommendation of his Royal Highnefs the Duke of York. It was easy to procure fuch notice, and he thought it would be proper for the House to have it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, he believed there was no official notice of fuch a defign. It might be known that fomething was in contemplation in confequence of the recommendation of the Duke of York. Mr. Whitbread faid, that whether fuch Notice had been given would appear from the Orderly Book. Here the converfation ended. FINANCES. Mr. Grey faid, that many confiderations would have induced him to decline troubling the House with the propofitions which he now rose to move, both of a perfonal nature, and because he had repeatedly feen the little intereft with which the majority of the House received any propofitions which came from those with whom they were not used to concur. In determining, however, to fubmit to the House the refolutions he was now about to move, he had yielded to the request of his friends, and to a sense of what his public duty impofed. Having been a Member too of the Committee appointed to examine into the neceffity and the causes of the Order of Council, and diffenting - No. 37. * 8 K 26 |