and he demands, honeftly demands to know the caufe! Do minifters answer him? Does the noble Lord in the blue ribbon fpeak out, and fairly avow the cause of his removal? No. He fhifts his head in fome fort out of the collar, he gets a colleague to make the motion for the difmiffion of a man, who had rendered himself offenfive to him, because he nobly and manfully ftood up for the people, and declared what afterwards appeared to be the fenfe of the House of Commons," that the influence of the crown had increased, "was increafing, and ought to be diminished ;" and when he now appeals to the minifter to avow his offence, and state the part of his conduct, which had induced this attempt to difgrace him, the noble Lord takes refuge in a cowardly filence. Mr. Fox continued fpeaking fome time longer with his ufual afperity and ability.

Mr. Hatfell. Mr. Hatfell then read from the Journals the entry of the 9th of May 1777, containing the thanks of the House to the Speaker, for his fpeech to the King from the bar of the Houfe of Lords, on his Majefty's giving his royal affent to the bill for the better fupport of his Majefty's household.

Mr. Byng.

Mr. Cornwall.

Sir Fletcher

Norton

Mr. Byng in a fhort fpeech condemned the motion made by the noble Lord, as an infult to the late speaker, and complained of the laft parliament's having been diffolved but two days after Sir Fletcher Norton fet out for Yorkshire, without the leaft previous intimation being given to him of any fuch defign; though he was the reprefentative of a borough fo near town as Guildford. He alfo mentioned the rudeneis of the Minifter's telling all his friends who attended at the place called the Cockpit, of the intention of moving, that Mr. Cornwall might be elected speaker, without giving the fmalleft intimation of fuch an intention to Sir Fletcher Norton.

Mr. Cornwall faid, that if the Houfe thought proper to elect him to the chair, he fhould exert his endeavours to give them fatisfaction; but that he could not bring himself to think it would be in his power to come near the partial expectations of the noble Lord who made the motion, the honourable gentleman who feconded it, or his learned friends. He concluded with obferving, that with regard to the subje&t under difcuffion, it would be improper for him to fay a fyllable upon it; he should therefore fit down, fubmitting the whole bufinefs to the wildom and judgment of the House.

After a momentary paufe,

Sir Fletcher role again, and declared, if any thing could induce him to accept the chair again-he begged pardon for

the

the expreffion-to aspire to it, it would be the contempt with which he was treated. He thought he had a right to an explanation from the noble Lord who made the motion, or from the honourable gentleman who feconded it. If it was his conduct laft feffion that had rendered him obnoxious, let them fay fo, and he should be content. He never would speak in that House, but as he thought; and as he was confcious that every man must abide by the confequences of his conduct, he cared not what iffue followed his conduct, but he furely had a right to complain of fuch ufage, and if neither the noble Lord nor the honourable gentleman would favour him with the explanation, he called for, he fhould leave the whole to the judgment of the Houfe, who, he was fure would put a true conftruction upon the treatment he had received, and the filence of minifters respecting it.

Mr. Ellis declared, that he conceived every member had an Mr. E undoubted right to vote for a new fpeaker as he thought proper; that he had no intention either to infult or disgrace Sir Fletcher Norton, of whom he had before spoken his fincere opinion, but that the public good was the great director of his vote, and he did not think, after the alarining state of the late fpeaker's health laft feffion, that it was either refpectful to him, or confiftent with the public good, to put him again in the chair; but that it was better to choose a speaker of fresher health, and who, from his time of life, had more vigour, and was better able to encounter and fuftain the fatigues of the office.

Lord Mahon faid, poffibly it might be fuppofed that no perfon Lord Mabes who had not been a member of the laft Parliament, was qualified to speak to the quftion; but though he was newly come within thofe walls, he could not confent to give a filent vote on the prefent occafion. His duty to his country and his own feelings forbade it. His Lordship then made an energetic eulogium on the virtues and the integrity of Sir Fletcher Norton, advifing the noble Lord who made the motion, to leave the late fpeaker's health to the late fpeaker's own care, and delaring that he would oppofe the motion, if there were no other reason for his doing fo, merely because it was inade by a member of adminiftration; that adminiftration, whofe baleful ineafures had loaded their country with difgrace and diftrefs, had abridged the inheritance of the Prince of Wales, and entailed ruin on the houfe of Hanover! Before his Lordship fate down, he menaced the treasury bench with a threat to oppofe every measure they fuggefted.

4

Mr.

Mr. Rigby.

Mr. Rigby faid, he not rise to advert to any thing let fall by the noble Lord who spoke laft, because the question was not now, how to difpofe of the miniftry; when the ministry were to be pulled down, and thet was the confideration of the House, he did not doubt but the noble Lord would affift in the work, as indeed he was bound in honour to do. Nor did he rife to talk of the late fpeaker's good or ill health, as neither the one nor the other was, as far as he saw, a part of the prefent queftion. The Houfe had a motion before them for the election of a speaker, to which office the motion recommended Mr. Cornwall, and to that motion he meant to fpeak. This he faid was the very firft debate in which he had heard it afferted, that there was any thing of infult, difgrace, or contempt to any man, in appointing a speaker, or that any gentleman was either to be called on, or expected to state his reafons why he recommended, or why he voted for this or that particular candidate. He had always understood that when a new Parliament was fummoned, every individual member had a right to give his vote as he pleafed for a new fpeaker, and he defied the moft learned in the law to prove, that it was any part of the conftitutional law of Parliament, that when a member was once elected to the chair of the House, he was to fit there just as long as he pleased, unless fome charge of criminality could be made out against him. He had fat in that Houfe a great many years, having been fent to Parliament when he was only twenty-two years of age, and he had feen feveral fpeakers chofen, but never before heard fuch doctrines broached, as he had heard that day. With regard to the vote of thanks to Sir Fletcher Norton, read from the Journals of 1777, he had at that time expreffed his difapprobation of it, and of the fpeech which occafioned it ; he thought then that the fpeaker went too far, that he was not warranted to make fuch an address to the throne, and that it was flying in the King's face, and he thought the fame now. [A cry, to Order, to Order!] He infifted upon it, he was not diforderly in what he had faid, he had a right to speak of the laft Parliament. He could not, he faid, but remark the particular epoch, when the late fpeaker became the great favourite of those who were this day to loud in his praife. It had been hinted at by a learned gentleman near him [Mr.Dunning] and more directly alluded to by his honourable friend oppofite [Mr. Fox]. The epoch was no other than the period at which the late speaker joined thofe gentlemen, and voted, as they termed it, with the Houfe of Commons. Let the gentlemen remember,

remember, however, that towards the clofe of the laft feffion, the House of Commons altered its opinion and its decifions. A great deal had been faid about the conduct of Sir Fletcher Norton, while ipeaker; perhaps he did not perfectly coincide. in all that had been urged on that topic; and for this, and other reasons, not fit to be given in that Houle, was difpofed to fupport the nomination of Mr. Cornwall, for whom he fhould certainly vote. He obferved, that only two matters were urged against the appointment of Mr. Cornwall as objections, and thofe were, his representing a Cinque Port, and his being a placeman. With regard to the latter, an honourable friend of his had mentioned Mr. Onflow, but he had forgot that Mr. Onflow was for fome years Treaturer of the Navy, a much better place than that held by Mr. Cornwall, and therefore more defirable! Why Mr. Onflow loft that place, was a matter which his honourable friend would, perhaps, rather talk over with him in private. As to Mr. Cornwall's reprefenting a Cinque Port, that was to him a very extraordinary objection indeed, and he believed it was the first time it had ever been brought forward in the shape of an objection. He had always understood that there was no local reprefentation within those walls, and that gentlemen were to confider themselves in a different light while they were in the House. He, for inftance, was cholen for the town of Tavistock, but while he was then fpeaking, he confidered himself as the reprefentative of the people of England, and this idea, he had always understood to be the true conftitutional idea of the Houfe of Commons. In this view therefore the baron of a Cinque Port, and the member for Old Sarum, was either of them as eligible to the chair as the member for the county of York. Grantham was the place which fent Sir John Cuft to Parliament, but it was never talked of as a plea of eligibility or ineligibility, when Sir John Cuft was recommended to the chair. Why then ftart the objection now? The conduct of Sir Fletcher Norton had been loudly applauded, and yet it might not ftrike every gentleman as it did thofe who had been fo lavish in delivering its eulogy. One part of his conduct had often appeared to him extremely wrong, and that was, his relaxation of the rules of proceeding with the ordinary bufinefs of the Hóufe, and his want of ftrictnefs in obferving order, and keeping gentlemen within due bounds. This he had spoken of to the late fpeaker more than once, and he hoped it would be a main object of Mr. Cornwall's attention to restore Parliament to its dignity, by reftoring a ftrict obfer

vance

vance of all the forms of the Houfe. He remembered Mr. Onflow was remarkable for an oppofite conduct, and was faid to have too much buckram in his manner, (to ufe a familiar phrate). The younger part of the Houfe complained, that he carried matters with rather too high a hand; the fact however was, the Houfe had then more dignity, its proceedings were more grave and folemn, and people without doors treated it more respectfully, than they had done fince Sir Fletcher Norton had filled the chair. He did not mean this as a fevere cenfure on the late Speaker, nor did he mean to set up his understanding in competition with that of Sir Flether Norton; he fhould be a fool to attempt it; he only mentioned it, becaufe he thought, though Mr. Onflow might be too pompous,. the extreme oppofite line of conduct was infinitely more liable to be attended with bad confequences.. Sir Fletcher Norton's relaxation in the points he had mentioned, he was aware was afcribable to that large fhare of good humour and good nature, which all who knew him, knew he was poffeffed of, and to his having a more elevated turn of mind, than could defcend to the obfervation of fuch minutiæ.

Much had been thrown out about the influence of the crown, and the fecret reafons for moving to elect a new fpeaker. To him, who was an old member of that Houle, all that had been faid on that head made not the fmalleft impreffion. It might have its effect on younger men, and those who had juft entered those walls, but he had fo often heard the fame fort of language from different fets of men on different occafions, that it was thrown away upon him, and as to the mighty fecret, the true caufe of moving for a new fpeaker by one fide of the Houfe, and fupporting the old fpeaker by the other, it was reducible to a very fimple fact, and when put into plain English, and ftripped of the dress of eloquence, and the ornaments of oratory, was no more than this: We'll vote "for you, if you'll be for us." As to the idea of places and placemen, that language would never be held, while parties continued, but he should hear it with great indifference, till he was told that no perfons were feeking for places. He voted for miniftry, and fo did others, becaufe he and they thought well of them, at leaft they knew not where to lookfor better men to put into their fituations; but whenever an adminiftration could be found out, capable of restoring unanimity to the country, he for one, would moft chearfully give up his place to the fupport of fuch an adminiftration.

Mr.