They have a cupola up on top of this building which is in such bad condition I am informed it might actually be blown away when we have one of our Taku winds, which we occasionally have in the wintertime. They are of great severity and come from the glacier. Fortunately, we do not get them too often, but when they do hit it is not too much to expect that will be blown off one of these days, causing considerable damage. The roof leaks badly, and the spouts are rusted too. Repairs are practically impossible because of the rotten situation. It would not hold a nail. You can push your hands in a lot of places. One of the main supporting timbers that runs across it is completely rotten. You can reach in and grab handfuls.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Can they be pushed from the inside out too?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. No one has done that yet. We have had some that would probably be interested in that. The basement is where the prisoners are actually kept, and that is surrounded with cement blocks, and it is a little difficult for them to push out of there, but I am afraid it is going to fall down on them one of these days.

The electric wiring is also very bad I have been informed. I am not any expert on that, but those who have inspected it say it is in a very dangerous condition and a new wiring job is essential, and actually it would be too costly for putting in the building the way it is. As a result, particularly with the amount of wind and rain that hits that building, there is a very decided fire hazard in addition to the other problems which I have mentioned.

The whole exterior of the building is badly in need of a paint job, again a very sizable undertaking for a building of that size and in the position that it is. And frankly, it is not worth putting money in for that type of repairs.

Now that site is an ideal site for a State capital some day, and we feel that the jail should be razed there and that it should be taken out and put in the country where we understand the prison system prefers their jails to be.

I want to mention that everyone who has inspected this jail has been of the same opinion I am expressing. They feel it should be eliminated and a new Federal jail erected to which the country and the Territory can look with pride.

The grand juries on every report I know of for the past 10 years have come in with a recommendation that something be done about the disgraceful conditions of the Federal jail. Our Governor, Governor Heintzleman, has made strong representations on it. The jail system which has recently taken over has so strongly recommended that action be taken in this regard.

If someone from the committee, or if all of you would care to look at it, I think it would speak much better than anything I can say in regard to it.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Is it fireproof?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. No, sir. It is not. Far from it, it is just the opposite.

Mr. O'BRIEN. If fire got a fairly good start there, would it be very difficult to save anyone in the basement?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. Very definitely.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Including the mentally ill who might be there.
Mr. BOOCHEVER. That is right.

The superintendent of the jail lives in the building itself, on the third floor, and the wind just pours through where he is there. He has tried to fix it up attractively with new wallpaper. The wind just snaps the wallpaper when it hits here. In fact I have heard it stated that he is staying there as a triumph of will over chill.

And he would be glad, I know, to show anyone through the jail that would care to see it.

We have an excellent site for a Federal jail within 7 miles of Juneau. I have a plat prepared showing it, United States Survey No. 3258. All of this area x'd in here in red is available. It consists of about 40 acres, and it is readily available to the town and to other communication facilities. The prisoners would have ample place to work in gardening and other outdoor projects which would be of a healthy and rehabilitating nature rather than sitting in the rotten quarters where they are now. It would be of no expense to the Federal Government to secure this site at the present time.

Mr. BARTLETT. Is it federally owned land?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. It is now federally owned land. It was put up for small lot use, and I understand it is being held at the present time with a view to using it for a jail site.

Mr. BARTLETT. Where is it?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. Right adjoining the Switcher tract, 7 miles out on the Signal Corps receiving station there.

I have this map which I will submit to the committee in that regard. The area shaded in red is the area which is available. And I believe these additional three lots to make this frontage on the road a little broader could be obtained.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Do you have any estimate of the cost?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. That property could be obtained at no cost what

soever.

Mr. O'BRIEN. I mean the construction.

Mr. BOOCHEVER. I understand that it would take approximately $500,000 to construct a modern prison which would be of use for the whole Territory, and a modern prison farm there.

Mr. O'BRIEN. This would serve the whole Territory?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. It could serve for the longer term sentences for the whole Territory, as well as serving our local area.

Mr. O'BRIEN. You now have prisoners brought into your present deplorable jail from various parts of Alaska?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. Only from parts in southeastern Alaska. Here at Juneau they keep most of the prisoners that serve any sizable term, or at Ketchikan for this southeastern section of the Territory.

That is briefly the one rather small issue that I have to present to you, and if there are any questions I will be glad to endeavor to answer them.

Mr. BARTLETT. Without objection, the map will be included in the file.

(The map referred to will be found in the files of the committee.) Mr. BARTLETT. Mr. O'Brien?

Mr. O'BRIEN. I have one question. You may not have the answer. In the course of an average year how many mentally ill people are confined in this firetrap where will triumphs over chill?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. I would say-I would only be able to give you a guess, sir, and I would say probably 12 to 13.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Some of those are women?

Mr. BоOCHEVER. Yes.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Some of them are children?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. I do not know-well, there have been children kept there. I know there have been children kept there.

Mr. O'BRIEN. In this basement, is it a little warmer than it is in the superintendent's quarters?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. It is damp and dank, and they try to keep it as well heated as they can.

Mr. O'BRIEN. But it is still grim.

Mr. BOOCHEVER. It is certainly not an attractive surrounding by any manner of means. I do not suppose a jail was meant to be a dream house, but it is not any type of place for keeping prisoners or

Mrs. Prost. The mentally ill that would be placed in the Federal jail here, would come only from the surrounding Juneau area; would they not?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. Yes, ma'am. They would be from Juneau and in sections of southeastern Alaska, the norther section of southeastern Alaska would be brought in here and they would not be detained in the Federal jail normally indefinitely. They would be sent down to Morningside eventually, but they would be retained in those definitely not healthful conditions while they were waiting to be tried and to be transported.

Mrs. PrOST. In other words, each community would take care of their own mentally ill in their own jails; Anchorage would take care of theirs, and Nome would take care of theirs, and so forth.

Mr. BOOCHEVER. That is correct, except, as I said, for instance, if there were an insane person at Haines he would be brought over to Juneau and then would be shipped from Juneau.

Mr. PrOST. That is all.

Mr. BARTLETT. Mr. Sisk?

Mr. SISK. Do you know how far along this program has gone? What actually has been done? Apparently there has been some exploratory work, in view of this chart you have here. I was wondering how far it had gone.

Mr. BOOCHEVER. I understand that Mr. Bennett, who is in charge of the Bureau of Prisons, intends to put in a request for an appropriation for this purpose. And it looks as though the matter will have to be coming up before Congress on the matter of appropriations, and I imagine that is where you gentlemen would get hold of it, or possibly in securing it, whatever committee it goes through.

Mr. SISK. That was, of course, the thing I was concerned with. After all, the picture you have drawn here, I am very happy_you told me. I have been walking across the street here by it. Hereafter I will go around the other way. [Laughter.]

I do not mean to be frivolous. I realize it is a serious thing, and certainly it is a shame something cannot be done. As our chairman, Mr. O'Brien, mentioned this morning, I am sure that matters of this kind will be called to the attention of the appropriate committee. We would not be quite the subcommittee, maybe, to handle

that. I was curious to know just how far the program has advanced, or whether or not you were prepared with the specific request for an appropriation.

Mr. BOOCHEVER. Governor Heintzleman, I know, has made representation to the Bureau of Prisons and we have received word, and our chamber has, of course. I do not know whether Mr. Bartlett has been called in on that. We have called him in on many other problems. I do not think we have bothered him with that as yet, but we have received word that they do intend to put it into their request for appropriations.

Mr. SISK. Just one further question, Mr. Bouchiver. As I served notice this morning, I have one further question.

Mr. BOOCHEVER. The $64 one.

Mr. SISK. The $64 one. And that is: Do you personally favor immediate statehood for Alaska?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. I find that question, as Mr. McLean did, a rather difficult one to answer. But I do not come up with quite the same answer he did. For the reasons that were expressed by Mr. Banfield primarily, and to some extent Mr. McLean, I have grave doubts about our ability to finance a State government at this time. However, if I were asked to vote at this time whether or not we could be the State, I would vote "yes," because I feel we could tough out the intervening period and eventually the benefits of having two Senators there and a voting Representative would overcome our disadvantages. And I also feel on the principle of our being entitled to vote for people who make our laws, that it is of such importance it would outweigh those other considerations. But I am not an enthusiastic proponent because I do have the very serious misgivings about our ability to finance it without going through a considerably difficult period.

Mr. SISK. Thank you. That is all.

Mr. BARTLETT. Mrs. Pfost?

Mrs. PrOST. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask Mr. Bouchiver what is the average annual number of inmates housed in the Federal prison?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. It varies greatly. I have seen, I believe, as many as 30 or 40 in there. At the present time they are at a very low ebb. I do not know why everyone is behaving so well right now, probably for this committee. [Laughter.]

But we have very few inmates right now. I would imagine it averages about 25.

Mrs. Prost. Thank you.

Mr. BARTLETT. Dr. Taylor?

Mr. TAYLOR. I think the record should show, Mr. Chairman, that the boys and girls are not housed in that institution but are sent to a much better training institution that provided for the adults.

Mr. BOOCHEVER. That may well be, Doctor. I stated that I knew of at least one instance where a youngster was kept there and I can recall that very well from when I was assistant district attorney here, a boy who had murdered a little girl and there was no other place to keep him and he was kept in there.

Mr. TAYLOR. I am thinking of those who are sent to what we used to call reform schools, now industrial-training schools.

Mr. BOOCHEVER. They are sent outside eventually, but there is no adequate facilities for keeping them at the present time. There are no such institutions as far as I know anywhere in Alaska, and no

separate facilities at the Federal jail to hold them until they are shipped out.

Mr. TAYLOR. If you have juvenile delinquency, as I am sure you must have, we have it everywhere else, there is no place set aside for kids of 13, 14, or 15?

Mr. BOOCHEVER. That is right, and it is a very serious problem because in many cases they have to be returned to the environment. which has caused them to be juvenile delinquents and there is no satisfactory institution there to take care of them.

Mr. BARTLETT. Mr. McFarland?

Mr. MCFARLAND. I have no questions.

Mr. BARTLETT. Mr. Bouchiver, the committee thanks you for the welcome on behalf of the Juneau Chamber of Commerce, and I had thought for a moment despite your inadvertent use of "State capitol” you had escaped the question, but you did not.

J. Simpson MacKinnon; identify yourself, Mr. MacKinnon.

STATEMENT OF SIMPSON MacKINNON, JR., JUNEAU CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, JUNEAU, ALASKA

Mr. MACKINNON. My name is J. S. MacKinnon, Jr. I am appearing on behalf of the Juneau Chamber of Commerce, as chairman of a special committee to deal with the Federal office phase.

Mr. BARTLETT. Proceed in your own manner.

Mr. MACKINNON. The previous members were members of the bar, and quite verbose. And I will try and confine my remarks.

Mr. O'BRIEN. I think "articulate" is a better word. [Laughter.] Mr. MACKINNON. Our main purpose in making the report to this committee I realize that probably you are not the proper committee, but I am sure you will refer it to the correct body-is that we would like to make it known that there is a great deal-Juneau needs a great deal more Federal office space.

There is presently in this Federal building, which was planned in 1925 and constructed about 1929-a little bit before my time-there is 82,000 square feet of office space. At present in Juneau the Federal offices are renting a total of 54,943 square feet of non-Federal office

space.

There is a total of 7,600 square feet of office space required by the Federal offices that are now occupying this building or now occupying Federal office space. They require an additional 7,600 square feet. There has been no Federal office space built in Juneau since 1929 when this building was constructed.

The Territory and the city-individuals in the city-have constructed four buildings to alleviate the problem of office space shortage. They built the Territorial Office Building, and there is the Community Building that was constructed by a group of individuals in the town, and two buildings built by a private individual.

The Territory of Alaska is growing and has been for a number of years, and hence the Government continues to grow and it is necessary to have more office space by all agencies.

Mr. O'BRIEN. May I ask, if the Federal offices were to move out of privately rented quarters, would those quarters be taken up by non-Federal persons or organizations?