Hearings, Reports and Prints of the House Select Committee on Assassinations

domestic trip the President was to make unless they were requested to do so by the Secret Service.

Does the Secret Service often request this type of information from you on a foreign journey?

Mr. CARLUCCI. I don't know the answer to that question offhand. Maybe one of my colleagues does.

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I am not conscious of it as a formal request in that sense. There is an exchange.

Mr. CARLUCCI. Normally we would find out about a prospective Presidential visit through the National Security Council mechanism and would be able to get our views in through that mechanism if we had some reservations about the trip.

Mr. MCKINNEY. So, in other words, you can voluntarily express your reservations, say, in a European trip, without a specific request from the Secret Service?

Mr. CARLUCCI. Oh, yes, that would not prove to be a problem. As I indicated earlier, we are involved in every trip, in coordination with the Secret Service, but, I think, your question went to the time the trip was in the planning stage, can people get their views in, and we as members of the NSC certainly have every opportunity through the NSC mechanism to get our views in.

Mr. MCKINNEY. I think one of the things that this committee is pledged to do under its mandate is to try and propose legislation, or ground rules, or Federal regulations, that will bypass the basic suspicion that many Americans have about the coincidental roles of people and the lack of communication on the Federal level. Just one other line, very briefly:

Under 18 U.S.C. 1751(h) and 18 U.S.C. 351(f), the FBI is the agency which investigates the crime of assassination. It further provides and I quote "Assistance may be requested from any Federal, State or local agency. Statues on Presidential/congressional assassinations provide that the assistance may be requested but do not require that any agency comply with such requests.

I guess the question is, should the CIA be required to give the FBI any and all intelligence information regardless of security classification which is arguably relevant to the Presidential assassination or kidnapping or not?

Mr. CARLUCCI. I can't conceive of circumstances where we wouldn't supply all relevant information. We would certainly indicate to the FBI the sensitive sources involved, should there be sensitive sources involved, and we might request that they consult with us before they take any moves where this information could be made public; but I cannot conceive of us not providing full information to the FBI.

Mr. MCKINNEY. In other words, you are not concerned about giving the information to the FBI, but you are concerned as to what the FBI does with the information?

Mr. CARLUCCI. I think that is a fair statement; yes, sir.

Mr. MCKINNEY. Thank you very much.

Chairman STOKES. The time of the gentleman has expired.

The gentleman from the District of Columbia, Mr. Fauntroy. Mr. FAUNTROY. Mr. Carlucci, let me just continue with the line of questioning which Mr. McKinney has begun.

As now written, the statutes apparently permit any type of assistance to be requested from an agency. Should the request for assistance from the CIA be restricted in any way to guard against unwarranted agency involvement in law enforcement activities? Mr. CARLUCCI. I shouldn't think so, Mr. Fauntroy. The Director of CIA, the Director of Central Intelligence, has the statutory responsibility under the 1947 Act to protect sources and methods. He therefore should be in a position to pass judgment on how the information should be used; but I don't see how you could frame a statute that would say what kinds of information should be provided and what kinds should not. I think it would be very difficult to craft.

Mr. FAUNTROY. You indicated that the CIA has been effective in preventing political assassinations. I wonder if you would care to comment on any recommendations you could offer to make the CIA more effective in that area?

Mr. CARLUCCI. Well, I think, Congressman, the tone of my prepared statement pretty much covers it, and I say "tone" because I would emphasize that our ability to protect the people who give us information is absolutely fundamental, and no one, particularly in this kind of an area, is going to put their life on the line if they think the information is not secure.

So the main thing we can do, really, is to create a general awareness of the real importance of this problem.

Mr. FAUNTROY. Would you have any recommendations on how the Secret Service might more effectively protect the President or the State Department might more effectively protect those in their charge?

Mr. CARLUCCI. I would regard that as outside my competence, Mr. Fauntroy. Suffice it to say that we have a very good working relationship with both of those organizations and I know of no problems that would need to be resolved.

Mr. FAUNTROY. Returning to the exchange of information, what role would the National Foreign Intelligence Board play in coordinating intelligence information in the event of an assassination? Mr. CARLUCCI. The National Foreign Intelligence Board would be one vehicle that might be used to coordinate the tasking of the different agencies.

There are other vehicles. As the intelligence community is now organized, the Director of Central Intelligence has the authority to level tasking on the different intelligence agencies, so the process that I would see would be that he would make the decision as to what information needed to be collected. Those instructions would go out through the entire community. They would then come back to the agencies, who would evaluate them, and the National Foreign Intelligence Board might meet as a group to give their overall assessment and pass on the information before it was turned over to the NSC for passage to the President.

They serve more as an evaluative body than as a tasking organization.

Mr. FAUNTROY. I take it from your previous response to an earlier question you do have pretty clear lines of communications in terms of individuals who communicate among the agencies? Mr. CARLUCCI. I would say they are very clear; yes, sir.

Mr. FAUNTROY. What if any intra- or interagency procedures has the CIA adopted to share information with the FBI in the event of assassination? I ask this question with the following situation in mind. During the ongoing investigation the CIA may come across a piece of information which means nothing in particular to the people running the assassination investigation but the same information was shown to an expert in the organized-crime area, or an expert in the Communist activities area, and its real significance became apparent.

With this in mind, how will the CIA see to it that information gets to the people within the Bureau who can properly evaluate it? Mr. CARLUCCI. Under terms of the Executive order, Executive Order 12036, we have a responsibility to cooperate with the FBI in the counterintelligence function. I think much of the information that you were talking about would fall into the counterintelligence area, and much of the information that you I think are referring to would fall under the category of counterintelligence.

There is no specific agreement other than that of the responsibilities to organizations delineated in 12036. I would be glad to submit Executive Order 12036 for the record because I think it may cover some of the questions you are getting at.

Mr. FAUNTROY. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully request that that be made a part of the record at this point. I would hope that the next member will pick up on this subject, as my time has expired. Chairman STOKES. Without objection, it is so ordered.

FULL COMMITTEE EXHIBIT F-1

THURSDAY, JANUARY 26, 1978

PART II

Libros

Hearings, Reports and Prints of the House Select Committee on ..., Partes1-2