Senator WATSON. Is the realm coextensive with the State?

Mr. CLARK. Ordinarily; yes, sir.

Senator WATSON. With the State?

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

Senator WATSON. There is a grand dragon at the head of the State?

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

Senator WATSON. Who makes the grand dragon?

Mr. CLARK. I think the imperial wizard is supposed to appoint the grand dragon.

Senator WATSON. The imperial wizard appoints the grand dragon, and the grand dragon appoints the titans. When you were made the general counsel of the realm of Texas-is that what you call it? Mr. CLARK. The realm of Texas.

Senator WATSON (continuing). How did you acquire that position?

Mr. CLARK. I acquired that by an arbitrary appointment of Doctor Evans. The position was nonexistent up to that time. They created that position, and I was the first one that held the position of general counsel.

Mr. NICKELS. When was that appointment made?

Mr. CLARK. That was made during a convocation that I attended in Atlanta, either in May-yes, it must have been in May. It was either the first of May or the middle of May, 1922.

Senator WATSON. Do you have any kleagles down in Texas?

Mr. CLARK. Yes.

Senator WATSON. What have they got to do with it?

Mr. CLARK. The kleagles are officers of an ancillary branch of the organization.

Senator WATSON. That is all right; I do not want to inquire into the mysteries of the organization. I just wanted to find out the relative positions of the officers, and how you happened to go from one place to the other. It was a question, then, of appointment and not of election?

Mr. CLARK. Yes.

Mr. ZUMBRUNN. You had the position of general counsel until you resigned?

Mr. CLARK. I resigned as general counsel in July, I belive it was, but I continued my membership in the organization until the December following.

Senator KING. July of what year?

Mr. CLARK. 1922.

Senator WATSON. What are you now, Judge?

Mr. CLARK. I am a citizen of the United States.

Senator WATSON. Do you still belong to the Ku-Klux?

Mr. CLARK. No, sir; I do not.

Senator WATSON. When did you sever your relations?
Mr. CLARK. I severed my relations in December, 1922.

Senator KING. Were you not a citizen of the United States when you were a member of the klan?

Mr. CLARK. That is the reason I resigned from the organization. Senator KING. Did you consider that you were or were not?

Mr. CLARK. I did not consider my membership in the klan compatible with my duties as a citizen of the United States. That is why I quit.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed with the witness.

Senator WATSON. We will not get into that, I guess. It might lead to a great many interesting questions.

Mr. NICKELS. About when were these provinces of the organization set up in Texas?

Mr. CLARK. I think that the organization was begun about the middle of January. You gentlemen will pardon me; my memory is rather poor as to dates [examining memorandum]. Yes; it was the middle of January, 1922.

Mr. NICKELS. Do you now recall which province was organized first?

Mr. CLARK. To the best of my recollection, it was the San Antonio province.

Mr. NICKELS. Were you present at that organization meeting? Mr. CLARK. No; I was not. I was detained at home on account of some local matters.

Mr. NICKELS. Were you present at any of the subsequent organization meetings for other provinces?

Mr. CLARK. Yes; I was present at the organization of the Fort Worth province which, I believe, is No. 2, and of the Dallas province, and I think I attended the organization of the Houston province, but I am not positive. I know I was in Houston at about that time. Mr. NICKELS. Do you now recall what imperial officers, if any, were present at the organization-at the Dallas province organization meeting?

Mr. CLARK. Yes; there was Dr. Hiram Wesley Evans, who is now imperial wizard. There was Mr. E. Y. Clarke. I do not think he was present at the organization of the province, but he came in later and attended the general rally of the province meeting, which was held the following night.

Mr. NICKELS. Was Mr. Earle B. Mayfield present at any of these organization meetings which you attended?

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

Mr. NICKELS. Which ones?

Mr. CLARK. My best recollection is that I first met up with Mr. Mayfield in klan circles at the organization of the Fort Worth province. Then afterwards he came to Dallas-immediately afterwards. That was either January 20, 21, or 22. Mr. Mayfield was present during the organization of the Dallas province.

Mr. NICKELS. Do you recall whether or not Mr. Mayfield made any speech at the klan meeting at Dallas or Fort Worth?

Mr. CLARK. Yes; I am not so positive about Fort Worth, but I recall distinctly the speech that he made in Dallas.

Mr. NICKELS. If I understand your testimony, immediately following the province organization at Dallas, there was a meeting of the titans for the whole State, and some sort of an organization perfected.

Mr. CLARK. The holding of the San Antonio, Fort Worth, Dallas, and Waco meetings was for the purposes of organization.

Mr. NICKELS. Where did you hold the meeting at Dallas?

Mr. CLARK. The province meeting was held in the afternoon at the klan hall. I can not give you the name of the street, because I do not recall it.

Mr. NICKELS. Did you or not have a meeting at the Adolphus Hotel in room 441?

Mr. CLARK. Yes; we had a number of conferences. I do not remember the number of the room. Mr. E. Y. Clarke, I remember distinctly, was present.

Senator WATSON. What position did Mr. Clark hold in the organization?

Mr. CLARK. Mr. E. Y. Clarke was, I think, the imperial klaliff. It was very similar to the vice presidency.

Senator WATSON. Oh, yes.

Mr. NICKELS. I hand you a document, Mr. Clark, which purports to be the minutes of a meeting held in room 441 of the Adolphus Hotel on January 22, 1922, and ask you to examine that document. Mr. CLARK. I have seen this document before, but I have not had occasion to read it. If you will permit me, I will read it through. Senator KING. Do you propose to offer this in evidence?

Mr. NICKELS. Yes, sir; this document is a pencil memorandum of the minutes of an informal meeting between the great titans of the realm of Texas.

Senator KING. You had better wait and see whether they want to object to it or not.

(The document in question was examined by counsel and members of the committee.)

Mr. NICKELS. Does that document or not correctly show the transactions of that meeting?•

Mr. CLARK. Substantially. It may omit some things, but all the recitations contained in that document are correct.

Mr. NICKELS. Do you know whether the provisions made in that document were acted upon frequently in Texas during 1922, or any part thereof?

Mr. CLARK. They were, sir, in effect. There were some arbitrary changes made by the great titans, but substantially they were carried into effect. If you will permit an interpolation, a most radical change was in regard to the disposition of the moneys. That document represents that the moneys should be kept by the klabee. As it eventually turned out, the grand dragon got hold of the moneys and kept them until such time as they were distributed. The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed.

Mr. CLARK. Senator, may I make a statement, in the light of personal privilege, at this time?

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. CLARK. As to your statement that nothing of a confidential nature ought to be disclosed, I would like to state that in so far as I am concerned, at the time I took my oath with the Ku-Klux Klan, I took it as a citizen of this country, and I do not consider that that oath binds me to conceal anything that might be beneficial to this country and for the advancement of its interests, and I want that statement understood, because I am perfectly willing and ready to testify to anything that is essential or material.

101521-24-PT 1- -5

Mr. ZUMBRUNN. That also goes as to the information you acquired as counsel?

Mr. CLARK. How is that?

Mr. ZUMBRUNN. That also goes as to the information you acquired as counsel for the realm of Texas?

Mr. CLARK. No; that is under the head of privileged communications.

Mr. ZUMBRUNN. All right.

Mr. CLARK. As counsel. But this information I am testifying to now was acquired as a State executive officer, and not as counsel. Senator WATSON. How long were you a member of the Klan?

Mr. CLARK. Senator, I joined the Klan either in October or November of 1921. In fact, I organized the Klan at Waco, Tex.; not as a paid organizer, but my services were given to the organization gratuitously, and I remained in the organization until December, 1922.

Senator WATSON. You were quite active while you were in?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

Senator WATSON. And were familiar with the organization and its workings and its officers?

Mr. CLARK. Thoroughly familiar with the organization within my respective province.

Mr. NICKELS. We offer that document in evidence.

Senator WATSON. Is there any objection?

Mr. HANGER. None whatever.

Senator WATSON. Read it, please.

Mr. NICKELS. It is on the letter head of the Adolphus Hotel.
Senator WATSON. What is it? What is in there?

Mr. CLARK. It is the minutes of this meeting at Dallas.

Senator WATSON. It is not a letter, then, but minutes of a meeting?

Mr. NICKELS. Yes [reading]:

Conference of great titans with E. Y. Clarke, imperial klaliff, in room 441, Adolphus Hotel, Dallas, Tex., January 22, 1922.

The titans present were: Kl. H. W. Evans, of Province No. 2; Kl, E. J. Clarke, of Province No. 3; Kl. H. C. McCall, of Province No. 4; Kl. R. H. Cameron, of Province No. 5; Klansman Brown Harwood, titan of Province No. 1, was absent on account of illness.

After full and free discussion of all matters relating to the State organization the following plans were definitely adopted and approved by the imperial klaliff.

The realm of Texas shall be divided for the present and until changed into five provinces, the boundaries of which have been heretofore defined. The great titan of each province shall be the directing head and operating chief of the work of all chartered klans within their respective provinces and it shall be the duty of the great titans to see to it that all of the rules and regulations, usages and customs as well as to methods of procedure in all matters relating to the activity of the Knights of the Ku-Klux Klan shall be enforced in spirit and in fact. They are vested with the necessary authority to carry out the purpose and intent of the work and are in supreme command of the work of all the chartered klans in their respective provinces. Effective from and after January 1, 1922—

I suppose that is meant for January.

Mr. ZUMBRUNN. That is all right.
Mr. HANGER. That is all right.
Mr. CLARK. January, 1922.

Senator WATSON. He says it is January.

Mr. NICKELS. I really can not read that.
Mr. HANGER. Pardon me; is it January?

Mr. CLARK. No, sir; that is the 23d of January, but the agreement was actually effective as of the 1st.

Mr. NICKELS. All right (continuing reading):

Effective from and after January 1, 1922, and for the period of the year 1922, unless otherwise ordered, the great titan of each province in Texas shall have as part of his duty the collection of all the funds belonging to the imperial palace from each chartered klan, in order that the palace may be assured of full and prompt return from every kligrath on or before the 10th of the month following each quarter as provided for by the constitution. During the above period of time, and unless otherwise ordered, in order that the great titans may have sufficient funds at their disposal to perfect the completion and to begin the successful operation of the machinery of the Knights of the Ku-Klux Klan in Texas, it is hereby agreed that, one-third of the imperial tax shall be set aside and turned over to the grand klabee of the State of Texas and that the expenditure of all State funds from whatever source obtained, shall be under the control and direction of the finance committee composed of the great titans of the five provinces of the State of Texas.

ED. YOUNG CLARKE, Imperial Klaliff. RALPH H. CAMERON, Acting Secretary of Titans Present.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed. Mr. NICKELS. Mr. Clark, were you at any meeting attended by Doctor Evans and others of the Ku-Klux Klan afterwards with respect to the primary campaign that was then in progress in Texas, shortly after the Dallas meeting?

Mr. CLARK. I attended the conference in June, if that is what you have reference to, at the Driskell Hotel in Austin.

Mr. NICKELS. Prior to that meeting, had you had a meeting at Waco?

Mr. CLARK. We had a conference at Waco; yes.

Mr. NICKELS. All right. Will you state the circumstances and results of that conference?

Mr. HANGER. What date was it?

Senator WATSON. Was Mayfield present?

Mr. CLARK. Yes; he was. He was not constantly in attendance on the conference.

Senator WATSON. I understand.

Mr. CLARK. That date was either the latter part of March or the early part of April, 1922. I thought it was in April, but I have some correspondence which indicates that the conference was held in March. I discovered that to-day in looking over my correspondence, and for that reason I am somewhat in doubt as to the exact date. That conference was held at the Raleigh Hotel. Do you wish. me to state who was present?

Mr. NICKELS. Yes; I would like you to state the circumstances leading up to the conference and what was done.

Mr. CLARK. Doctor Evans, who at that time I do not think had become an imperial officer, but who was then great titan of the Dallas province, called me over the phone and asked me to reserve some rooms for him at the Raleigh Hotel, saying that he and the boys were coming down, and I asked him what he meant by it, and he said, "We are just coming down to see you. We just want to