By Mr. MADISON — Q. Shall the states be called on to return to Congress an estimate of the value of their lands, with the buildings and improvements within each, respectively? After some discussion on this point, in which the inequalities which would result from such estimates were set forth at large, and effects of such an experiment in Virginia had been described by Mr. Mercer, and a comparison of an average valuation in Pennsylvania and Virginia, which amounted in the latter to fifty per cent. more than in the former, although the real value of land in the former was confessedly thrice that of the latter, had been quoted by Mr. Madison, the apprehensions from a reference of any thing more to the states than a report of simple facts increased; and on the vote the states were as follows: New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, no- - Mr. Bland, ay; Mr. Lee, silent; Connecticut, North Carolina, South Carolina, ay; New York, divided: so it passed in the negative. By Mr. MADISON — - Q. Shall a period be now fixed, beyond which the rule to be eventually established by Congress shall not be in force?-ay, unanimously. By Mr. MADISON — Q. What shall that period be? Connecticut was again for three years; which being rejected, five years passed unanimously. By Mr. MADISON Q. Shall the rule so to be established have retrospective operation, so far as may be necessary for liquidating and closing the accounts between the United States and each particular state?-ay; Connecticut, no. Mr. DYER and Mr. MERCER understood this as making the amount of the several requisitions of Congress, and not of the payments by the states, the standard by which the accounts were to be liquidated, and thought the latter the just quantum for retrospective appointment. Their reasoning, however, was not fully comprehended. Committee of the Whole. SATURDAY, February 8. Mr. MERCER revived the subject of retrospective operation, and after it had been much discussed, and the difference elucidated which might happen between apportioning, according to the first valuation which should be made, merely the sums paid on the requisitions of Congress, and apportioning the whole requisitions, consisting of the sums paid and the deficiencies, which might not be paid until some distant day, when a different rule, formed under different circumstances of the states, should be in force, the assent to the last question, put yesterday, was reversed, and there was added to the preceding question, after “ five years,” shall operate as a rule for apportioning the sums necessary to be raised for supporting the public credit and other contingent expenses, and for adjusting all accounts between the United States and each particular state, for moneys paid or articles furnished by them, and for no other purpose whatsoever." On this question there were six ayes; so it became a vote of the committee of the whole. "and MONDAY, February 10. For the report of the committee on the resolutions of Virginia, concerning the contract under which tobacco was to be exported to New York, and the admission of circumstantial proof of accounts against the United States, where legal vouchers had been destroyed by the enemy, see the Journal of this date. Mr. MERCER informed Congress that this matter had made much noise in Virginia; that she had assented to the export of the first quantity, merely out of respect to Congress, and under an idea that her rights of sovereignty had been encroached upon; and that, as a further quantity had been exported without the license of the state, the question was unavoidable, whether the authority of Congress extended to the act. He wished, therefore, that Congress would proceed to decide the question. Mr. FITZSIMMONS, in behalf of the committee, observed that they went no further than to examine whether the proceedings of the officers of Congress were conformable to the resolution of Congress, and not whether the latter were within the power of Congress. Mr. LEE said, the report did not touch the point; that the additional quantity had been exported without application to the state, although the first quantity was licensed by the state with great reluctance, in consequence of the request of Congress, and of assurances against a repetition; and that the superintendent and secretary of Congress ought, at any rate, to have made application to the executive before they proceeded to further exportations. Mr. RUTLEDGE said, the report went to the very point, that Virginia suspected the resolutions of Congress had been abused by the officers of Congress, and the report showed that no such abuse had taken place; that if this information was not satisfactory, and the state should contest the right of Congress in the case, it would then be proper to answer it on that point, but not before. He said, if the gentleman (Mr. Lee) meant the committee, authorized by Congress on the 29th day of May, 1782, to make explanations on the subject to the legislature of Virginia, had given the assurances he mentioned, he must be mistaken; for none such had been given. He had, he said, formed notes of his remarks to the legislature; but, according to his practice, had destroyed them after the occasion was over, and therefore could only assert this from memory; that nevertheless his memory enabled him to do it with certainty. Mr. LEE, in explanation, said he did not mean the committee; that the abuse complained of was not that the resolutions of Congress had been exceeded, but that the export had been undertaken without the sanction of the state. If the acts were repeated, he said, great offence would be given to Virginia. The report was agreed to, as far as the tobacco was concerned, without a dissenting voice; Mr. Lee uttering a no, but not loud enough to be heard by Congress or the Chair. The part relating to the loss of vouchers was unanimously agreed to. Committee of the Whole. The report for the valuation of land was amended by the insertion of "distinguishing dwelling-houses from others." The committee adjourned, and the report was made to Congress. Mr. LEE and Mr. GERVAIS moved that the report might be postponed to adopt another plan, to wit, "To call on the states to return a valuation, and to provide that, in case any return should not be satisfactory to all parties, persons should be appointed by Congress, and others by the states, respectively, to adjust the case finally." On this question New Hampshire was divided; Massachusetts, no; Rhode Island, ay; Connecticut, no; New York, divided; New Jersey, no; Pennsylvania, no; Virginia, no; Mr. Madison and Mr. Jones, no; Mr. Lee and Mr. Bland, ay; North Carolina, ay; South Carolina, ay: so the motion failed. TUESDAY, February 11. The report made by the committee of the whole having decided that the mode to be grounded on the return of facts called for from the states ought now to be ascertained, Mr. RUTLEDGE proposed, seconded by Mr. GILMAN, that the states should be required to name commissioners, each of them one, who, or any nine of them, should be appointed and empowered by Congress, to settle the valuation. Mr. Gorham was against it, as parting with a power which might be turned by the states against Congress. Mr. Wolcott against it; declares his opinion that the Confederation ought to be amended by substituting numbers of inhabitants as the rule; admits the difference between freemen and blacks; and suggests a compromise, by including in the numeration such blacks only as were within sixteen and sixty years of age. Mr. WILSON was against relinquishing such a power to the states; proposes that the commissioners be appointed by Congress, and their proceedings subject to the ratification of Congress. Mr. MERCER was for submitting them to the revision of Congress; and this amendment was received. Mr. PETERS against the whole scheme of valuation, as holding out false lights and hopes to the public. Mr. RUTLEDGE thinks commissioners appointed by the states may be trusted, as well as commissioners appointed by Congress, or as Congress themselves. Mr. WILSON observes that, if appointed by the states, they will bring with them the spirit of agents for their respective states; if appointed by Congress, they will consider themselves as servants of the United States at large, and be more impartial Mr. GORHAM, seconded by Mr. Wilson, proposes to postpone, in order to require the states to appoint commissioners to give Congress information for a basis for a valuation. On the question, New Hampshire, no; Massachusetts, ay; Rhode Island, ay; Connecticut, ay; New York, ay; New Jersey, ay; Pennsylvania, ay; Virginia, no; North Carolina, no; South Carolina, no: so it was decided in the negative. To make the resolution more clear, after the words "or any nine of them," the words "concurring therein" were added. Mr. RUTLEDGE says, that subjecting the acts of the commissioners to the revision of Congress had so varied his plan that he should be against it. On the main question, New Hampshire, ay; Massachusetts, ay; Rhode Island, ay; Connecticut, ay; New York, no; New Jersey, no; Pennsylvania, ay; Virginia, ay, (Mr. Madison, no;) North Carolina, ay; South Carolina, ay so it was agreed to; and the resolution, declaring that a mode should now be fixed, struck out, as executed. The whole report was then committed to a special committee, consisting of Mr. Rutledge, Mr. Gorham, and Mr. Gilman, to be formed into a proper act. 13 WEDNESDAY, February 12. The declaration of Congress as to general funds, passed on January the 29th, appears on the Journals; and Congress resolved itself into a committee of the whole, in order to consider the funds to be adopted and recommended to the states. On motion of Mr. MIFFLIN, the impost of five per cent. was taken into consideration. As it seemed to be the general opinion that some variations from the form in which it had been first recommended would be necessary for reconciling the objecting states to it, it was proposed that the sense of the committee should be taken on that head. The following questions were accordingly propounded:— Question 1. Is it expedient to alter the impost as recommended on the 1781 ? day of Mr. LEE said the states, particularly Virginia, would never concur in the measure unless the term of years were limited, the collection left to the states, and the appropriation annually laid before them. Mr. WOLCOTT thought the revenue ought to be commensurate, in point of time as well as amount, to the debt; that there was no danger in trusting Congress, considering the responsible mode of its appointment; and that to alter the plan would be a mere condescension to the prejudices of the states. Mr. GORHAM favored the alteration for the same reason as Mr. Lee. He said private letters informed him that the opposition to the impost law was gaining ground in Massachusetts, and the repeal of Virginia would be very likely to give that opposition the ascendence. He said, our measures must be accommodated to the sentiments of the states, whether just or unreasonable. Mr. HAMILTON dissented from the particular alterations suggested, but did not mean to negative the question. Mr. BLAND was for conforming to the ideas of the states as far as would, in any manner, consist with the object. On the question, the affirmative was unanimous, excepting the voice of Mr. WOLCOTT. Question 2. Shall the term of duration be limited to twenty-five years? Mr. MERCER professed a decided opposition to the principle of general revenue; observed that the liberties of England had been preserved by a separation of the purse from the sword; that, until the debts should be liquidated and apportioned, he would never assent, in Congress or elsewhere, to the scheme of the impost. Mr. BLAND proposed an alternative of twenty-five years, or until the requisitions of Congress, according to the Articles of Confederation, shall be found adequate. On this proposition the votes were, of New Hampshire, divided; Rhode Island, no; Connecticut, no; New York, no; New Jersey, no; Pennsylvania, no; Virginia, ay; North Carolina, divided; South Carolina, ay: so the proposition was not agreed to. On the main question for twenty-five years, it was voted in the affirmative. Question 3. Shall the appointment of collectors be left to the states, they to be amenable to, and under the control of, Congress ?-Ay; several states, as New York and Pennsylvania, dissenting. THURSDAY, February 13. The committee report to Congress the alterations yesterday agreed on with respect to the five per cent. impost. The deputy secretary at war reported to Congress the result of the inquiry directed by them, on the 24th of January, into the seizure of goods destined for the British prisoners of war, under passport from General Washington. From this report, it appeared that some of the seizors had pursued their claim under the law of the state; and that, in consequence, the goods had been condemned and ordered for sale. The papers were referred to a committee, consisting of Mr. Rutledge, Mr. Gorham, and Mr. Lee, who, after having retired for a few moments, reported that the secretary of war should be authorized and directed to cause the goods to be taken from the places where they had been deposited; to employ such force as would be sufficient; and that the Duke de Lauzun, whose legion was in the neighborhood, should be requested to give the secretary such aid as he might apply for. This report was generally regarded by Congress as intemperate, and the proposed recourse to the French legion as flagrantly imprudent. Mr. HAMILTON said, that if the object had been to embroil the country with their allies, the expedient would have been well conceived. He added, that the exertion of force would not, under these circumstances, meet the sense of the people at large. Mr. GORHAM said, he denied this with respect to the people of Massachusetts. Mr. LEE, on the part of the committee, said that the Duke de Lauzun had been recurred to as being in the neighborhood, and having cavalry under his command, which would best answer the occasion; and that the report was founded on wise and proper considerations. Mr. MERCER, Mr. WILLIAMSON, Mr. RAMSAY, Mr. WILSON, and Mr. MADISON, strenuously opposed the report, as improper altogether, as far as it related to the French legion, and in other respects so until the state of Pennsylvania should, on summons, refuse to restore the articles seized. Mr. RUTLEDGE, with equal warmth, contended for the expediency of the measures reported. Mr. MERCER and Mr. MADISON at length proposed that Congress should assert the right on this subject, and summon the state of Pennsylvania to redress the wrong immediately. The report was recommitted, with this proposition, and Mr. Wilson and Mr. Mercer added to the committee. The speech of the king of Great Britain on the 5th of December, 1782, arrived and produced great joy in general, except among the merchants who had great quantities of merchandise in store, the price of which immediately and materially fell. The most judicious members of Congress, however, suffered a great diminution of their joy from the impossibility of discharging the arrears and claims of the army, and their apprehensions of new difficulties from that quarter. FRIDAY, February 14. Mr. Jones, Mr. Rutledge, and Mr. Wilson, to whom had been referred, on Tuesday last, a letter from Mr. Jefferson, stating the obstacles to his voyage, reported that they had conferred with the agent of marine, who said there was a fit vessel ready for sea in this port, but was of opinion the arrival of the British king's speech would put a stop to the sailing of any vessels from the ports of America until something definitive should take place; and that if Congress judged fit that Mr. Jefferson should proceed immediately to Europe, it would be best to apply to the French minister for one of the frigates in the Chesapeake. The general opinion of Congress seemed to be that, under present circumstances, he should suspend his voyage until the further order of Congress; and on motion of Mr. GORHAM, seconded by Mr. WOLCOTT, the secretary of foreign affairs was accordingly, without opposition, directed to make this known to Mr. Jefferson. The report of the committee for obtaining a valuation of land was made and considered. See the Journal of this date. MONDAY, February 17. The report respecting a valuation of land being lost, as appears from the Journal, was revived by the motion of Mr. DYER, seconded by Mr. MERCER, as it stands; the appointment of commissioners by Congress for adjusting the quotas being changed for a grand committee, consisting of a delegate present from each state, for that purpose. * This was an oblique allusion to Mr. Lee, whose enmity to the French was suspected by lum, &c. A motion was made to strike out the clause requiring the concurrence of nine voices in the report to Congress; and on the question, Shall the words stand? the states being equally divided, the clause was expunged. It was therefore reconsidered and reinserted. The whole report was agreed to, with great reluctance, by almost all -- by many from a spirit of accommodation only, and the necessity of doing something on the subject. Some of those who were in the negative, particularly Mr. Madison, thought the plan not within the spirit of the Confederation; that it would be ineffectual, and that the states would be dissatisfied with it. A motion was made by Mr. HAMILTON, seconded by Mr. FITZSIMMONS, to renew the recommendation of the February, 1782, for vesting Congress with power to make abatements in favor of states, parts of which had been in possession of the enemy. It was referred to a committee. TUESDAY, February 18. Committee of the Whole on the Subject of general Funds. Mr. RUTLEDGE and Mr. MERCER proposed, that the impost of five per cent., as altered and to be recommended to the states, should be appropriated exclusively, first to the interest of the debt to the army, and then, in case of surplus, to the principal. Mr. Rutledge urged, in support of this motion, that it would be best to appropriate this fund to the army as the most likely to be obtained, as their merits were superior to those of all other creditors, and as it was the only thing that promised, what policy absolutely required, some satisfaction to them. Mr. WILSON replied, that he was so sensible of the merits of the army, that if any discrimination were to be made among the public creditors, he should not deny them perhaps a preference, but that no such discrimination was necessary; that the ability of the public was equal to the whole debt, and that before it be split into different descriptions, the most vigorous efforts ought to be made to provide for it entire; that we ought first, at least, to see what funds could be provided, to see how far they would be deficient, and then, in the last necessity only, to admit discriminations. Mr. GORHAM agreed with Mr. Wilson. He said an exclusive appropriation to the army would, in some places, be unpopular, and would prevent a compliance of those states whose citizens were the greatest creditors of the United States; since, without the influence of the public creditors, the measure could never be carried through the states; and these, if excluded from the appropriation, would be even interested in frustrating the measure, and keeping, by that means, their cause a common one with the army. Mr. MERCER applauded the wisdom of the Confederation in leaving the provision of money to the states; said that when this plan was deviated from by Congress, their objects should be such as were best known and most approved; that the states were jealous of one another, and would not comply unless they were fully acquainted with, and approved, the purpose to which their money was to be applied; that nothing less than such a preference of the army would conciliate them; that no civil creditor would dare to put his claims on a level with those of the army; and insinuated that the speculations which had taken place in loan-office certificates might lead to a revision of that subject on principles of equity; that if too much were asked from the states, they would grant nothing. He said that it had been alleged, that the large public debt, if funded under Congress, would be a cement of the Confederacy. He thought, on the contrary, it would hasten its dissolution; as the people would feel its weight in the most obnoxious of all forms-that of taxation. On the question, the states were all no, except South Carolina, which was ay.* A motion was made by Mr. RUTLEDGE, seconded by Mr. BLAND, to change the plan of the impost in such a manner as that a tariff might be formed for all articles that would admit of it; and that a duty, ad valorem, should be collected only on such articles as would not admit of it. In support of such alteration, it was urged that it would lessen the opportunity of collusion between collector and importer, and would be more equal among the states. On the other side, it was alleged that the states had not objected to that * Virginia Mr. Jones, Mr. Madison, Mr. Bland, no; Mr. Lee, Mr. Mercer, ay. |