FEBRUARY, 1793.] Transfer of Public Securities. Mr. GILES, from the committee to whom was recommitted, on the 14th of November last, the report of the committee appointed to inquire into the causes of the failure of the expedition under Major General St. Clair, made a revisionary report; which was read, and, together with the first report, ordered to be referred to the consideration of a Committee of the Whole House on Wednesday next. A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have passed the bill, entitled "An act to promote the progress of Useful Arts, and to repeal the act heretofore made for that purpose," with several amendments; to which they desire the concurrence of this House. [H. OF R. these would furnish the necessary criterions. With respect to the objection arising from the provision's operating as a tax, he conceived it did not apply with any greater force than what might be urged against fees imposed on deeds, &c. Mr. D. conceived that, as a host of clerks were employed in the Treasury Department on this business of transfer, which was done for the benefit of individuals, he thought it no more than reasonable that they should pay the expense. Mr. CLARK followed Mr. DAYTON in a train of similar observations. He said he saw no difficulty in the case; the expense will fall on the speculators only. Mr. STURGES said, it appeared to him that the The House proceeded to consider the said amend- bill would operate as an infraction of the law ments, and, the same being read, were agreed to. making provision for the Public Debt. He conMr. WILLIAM SMITH, from the committee ap-ceived that that law does not contemplate any pointed to join the committee appointed on the part of the Senate, to wait on the PRESIDENT, and to notify him of his unanimous re-election to the office of PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, reported that the committee had performed that duty. SATURDAY, February 16. TRANSFER OF PUBLIC SECURITIES. The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole House on the bill to establish fees to be paid on the transfer of public securities. The bill was read by the Chairman. An amendment was proposed, which was, to strike out the last line of the bill, and to substitute a clause providing for the disposal of the fees, which are to be received by the Comptroller of the Treasury and the Loan Offices. Mr. FITZSIMONS said he did not know whether he should vote for the bill or not. At present he had his doubts on the expediency of departing from a principle established in the Government, which is, that public officers should be compensated for their services without being authorized to receive any fees. This principle has been adhered to in all cases where it was practicable; and it must appear the most eligible mode, when it is considered how difficult it is to guard against abuses and frauds. He considered it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to provide adequate checks. Mr. BENSON objected to the provision, generally. He considered it as laying a tax on a particular species of property already encumbered with various restrictions, in respect to which there is no option left to one of the parties. The Government has prescribed for its own security a particular process in the subject of transferring public certificates. He saw no reason in imposing a tax in addition to these regulations. Mr. DAYTON (in replying to Mr. FITZSIMONS) observed, that the process of making the transfers, at the several Loan Offices, would afford an opportunity to provide complete and adequate checks against any abuse in the transaction, or embezzlement of the fees; the names of the parties are alwave entered in books kent for the purpose, and charge being paid by the proprietors of public securities for transferring the certificates; they never supposed that they would be clogged with any such charge. In this view of the subject, he should be opposed to the bill. Mr. BENSON replied to Mr. DAYTON's remarks on the tax imposed on deeds; he said the cases are not parallel. In the present case, there is no option to the public creditors; the Government has already prescribed how this business shall be done; it must therefore be considered as a breach of the rights of the creditors. With respect to the expenses falling exclusively on speculators, he said the gentleman was mistaken, and mentioned an instance to show that persons who are not speculators will be subject to the tax. Mr. B. doubted the propriety, however, of a regulation which should operate so partially. He very much doubted the legality of framing a tax that should be pointed at any class of citizens in particular. Mr. MERCER, after a few introductory remarks on the general utility of public institutions, and the obligation which every citizen is under to support them, remarked, that however true this principle is, yet it is but just that those who derive peculiar personal advantages from these institutions, should pay for those advantages. He applied this reasoning to the case in hand, and observed, that on this principle he thought the provision contemplated by the bill was reasonable and just. With respect to taxing the property in the funds, he remarked, that the subject involved the most extensive considerations. He should not at present enter into a discussion of them; but, he observed, that it was clearly his opinion that that species of property was liable to taxation in common with every other; and this idea he said was sanctioned by the usages and customs of nations. Mr. BARNWELL said, it appeared to him that the particular regulation established in the Treasury Department was made for the public advantage; if so, he could not see the justice of throwing the expense on individuals. If the bill should be sustained, he contended that the individuals should have the alternative of transferring or not, as is the case in respect to deeds. He should therefore be opposed to the bill, unless some provision for an alternative should accompany it. H. of R.] Fees in the Transfers of Public Securities. Mr. GERRY objected to the bill on general principles. He stated sundry consequences extremely injurious to the public credit, which might be grafted on the principle contained in the regulation proposed. [FEBRUARY, 1793. Mr. CLARK said, he had not mentioned New York. Mr. LAURANCE said, his remark was applicable to the gentleman's reflection, let him refer to any city whatever. Mr. L. then entered into a general consideration of the subject, and stated the various steps of the process prescribed by the Funding law in relation to transfers. The deductions he drew were similar to those made by Mr. BENSON. Mr. BOUDINOT observed, that when the proposition was first brought forward, he entertained a favorable idea of the provision; he had not, however, till this morning, critically examined the operation of the principle in relation to the Mr. MURRAY was against the bill. He thought contract between the Government and the public it wrong in principle, and, thinking so, no argucreditors. He was indebted, he said, to the gen- ment speciously drawn from a small gain to the tleman from New York, for the idea of an inter- public, which it was unworthy in them to deference. Mr. B. then analyzed the provision re- mand, should tempt him to vote for it. He despecting the Public Debt, in order to show that clared, that when the bill was first noticed, his the regulations adopted were considered as final reflections had presented the provision merely in and conclusive; full and complete provision was a sort of analogy with fees justly demanded in made to defray the expense by the Government; Courts, and in common civil offices-as offices for from hence he deduced this consequence, that the the registering of deeds; but the moment the course tax contemplated would have a retrospective as- of his reflections had traced the subject in that pect-would interfere with the stipulations of the analogy, he discovered a strong and insuperable contract, and go to injuring the public credit essen- objection. These institutions, for the support of tially; for, said he, if Congress can lay a tax on which fees were demandable from such as had the transfer of the public securities, they may ex-business, were such as the law established for the tend the principle to such a degree as to interdict all transfers whatever, yea, to taxing the Debt; an idea he conceived totally subversive of public credit. Mr. DAYTON remarked, that the reasoning of his colleague, and of the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. GERRY,] went too far; it would apply to every species of imposition whatever; and the Government would thereby be in effect precluded from laying any duties on impost and tonnage. Mr. S. BOURNE was in favor of the bill. He cited precedents from Probate and other offices in the several States, to show that paying fees was customary, and was submitted to by the people. The parties deriving the benefit, it is universally conceived, should bear the expense incurred. With respect to the fees, he conceived the precedent is already established by the Government; fees are paid in the Department of State, these fees are accounted for to the Secretary of the Treasury. He thought a similar mode might be adopted in the present case. Let the fees be paid for the benefit of the United States, and let the several officers account with the head of the Treasury Department for the same, who will account to the Legislature. intercourse between one individual and another; here, on the contrary, the law relates to a proceeding in which a debtor public is to transfer its promissory notes to individual creditors. The public is a debtor, has issued negotiable paper, part of the value of which depends on the facility of negotiation; the necessity of registering transfers being merely to secure the public. As the debt was subscribed under the idea of transfers being free of expense, so to force the parties to pay fees would diminish the value of the property; for, if it be an expense now to the public, and that expense be intended to be taxed on the thing transferred, it would amount to something like diminishing of the debt without discharging it. There is a solid difference between laws that regulate fees to be paid on the transactions between man and man, and such as relate to transactions like this, between a debtor public and an individual creditor. If a debtor constitutes a debt of a negotiable kind, and at the time of issuing his note makes each transfer necessarily to depend on an act of his own, he cannot expect to be paid for this; this quality forms a part of the value he has parted from. The debate on the subject was continued till a late hour; several other gentlemen spoke on the occasion. The motion to amend the bill was at length agreed to. The Committee then rose, and reported accordingly. Ordered, That the said bill, with the amend Mr. CLARK supported the bill by further remarks. He extended his ideas to taxing the public securities: this expedient, he said, the public exigencies may possibly require. He repeated his observations relative to the number of clerks in the Treasury, employed on the business of trans-ment, do lie on the table. fers: the great expense hereby incurred, he said, was for the advantage of speculators, of which a host was collected in a neighboring city, where, as from a centre, they extended their negotiations to all parts of the Union. Mr. LAURANCE said, he always considered it as indicative of the badness of a cause, when a person descends to general invectives against public bodies. He alluded to Mr. CLARK's reflection on the City of New York. MONDAY, February 18. A petition of the Directors of the Library Company of Philadelphia, and of the Trustees of the Loganian Library, was presented to the House and read, praying that so much of the existing revenue laws of the United States as imposes a duty on books imported for the use of public libraries, may be repealed. FEBRUARY, 1793.] Proceedings. [H. OF R. the manufacture of paper, may be repealed; and also, that the present duty on foreign paper imported into the United States, may remain. Laid on the table. On a motion made and seconded that the House do come to the following resolution: "Resolved, That the Commissioners for purchasing the Public Debt be directed to lay before this House a statement of all their proceedings not heretofore furnished :" Ordered, That the said petition be referred to Messrs. FINDLEY, LAURANCE, and MURRAY; that they do examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereupon to the House. Mr. MURRAY, from the committee appointed to take into consideration that part of the PRESIDENT'S Speech which relates to the transmission of newspapers, and report whether any, and what, alterations may be necessary in the act passed last session for the regulation of the Post Office, made a report; which was read. and ordered to be comA motion was made, and the question being mitted to a Committee of the Whole House. The House resolved itself into a Committee of put, to amend the said original motion, by insertthe Whole House on the bill sent from the Se-resolves as Commissioners, approved by the PREing, after the word "House," the words, "their nate, entitled "An act in addition to the act, entitled 'An act to establish the Judicial Courts of the United States;" and, after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the Committee had had the said bill under consideration, and YEAS.-Fisher Ames, John Baptist Ashe, Robert made several amendments thereto; which were Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjaseverally twice read, and agreed to by the House. shub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Jonathan Dayton, ThoOrdered, That the said bill, with the amend-mas Fitzsimons, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Samuel Griffin, Thomas Hartley, ments, do lie on the table. James Hillhouse, Daniel Huger, Aaron Kitchell, John Wilkes Kittera, John Laurance, Amasa Learned, George Leonard, Samuel Livermore, Nathaniel Niles, Theodore Sedgwick, Peter Sylvester, John Steele, Jonathan Sturges, George Thatcher, Jeremiah Wads it passed in the negative-yeas 30, nays 31, as SIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, together with:" follows: A Message was received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, laying before Congress a report and plat of the Territory of the United States on the Potomac, as given in by the Commissioners of that Territory, together with a Let-worth, and Artemas Ward. ter from the Secretary of State, which accompanied them. The papers referred to in the Message were ordered to lie on the table. TUESDAY, Februrary 19. A memorial of sundry merchants and traders of Providence, in the State of Rhode Island, was presented to the House and read, stating the disadvantages which attend the operation of the existing revenue laws of the United States, and praying that the same may be revised and amended. Referred to the Secretary of the Treasury. A petition of Caleb Newbold, John Black, and Sarah Newbold, executors of the last will and testament of Caleb Newbold, deceased, praying compensation for provisions furnished for the use of the militia and navy of Pennsylvania, in Continental service, during the late war; also, a petition of Thomas Coit, Collector of the Revenue for the Second Division, in the State of Connecticut, praying to be exonerated from the payment of a certain sum of money, which he collected on account of the duties accruing on a quantity of distilled spirits, and deposited in his storehouse at Norwich, in the said State, as a place of safety, and which, together with a part of the money so deposited, was consumed by fire on the night of the 15th ultimo. Ordered, That the said petitions be referred to the Secretary of the Treasury, with instructions to examine the same, and report his opinion thereupon to the House. A memorial of sundry paper-makers in the States of Pennsylvania and Delaware was presented to the House and read, praying that so much of the existing revenue laws of the United States as imposes a duty on imported rags used in NAYS.-Abraham Baldwin, Abraham Clark, William Findley, Elbridge Gerry, William B. Giles, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, William Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, William Hindman, Philip Key, Richard Bland Lee, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Francis Mercer, John Milledge, Andrew Moore, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Josiah Parker, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, Thomas Sumpter, Thomas Tredwell, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, Alexander White, and Francis Willis. Another motion was then made, and the question being put, to amend the said original motion, by striking out the words "not heretofore furnished," and inserting, in lieu thereof, the words "under the acts for the reduction of the Public Debt, since the date of the purchases mentioned in their last report:”—it passed in the negative— yeas 18, nays 43, as follows: YEAS.-Fisher Ames, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Jonathan Dayton, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, John Laurance, Amasa Learned, George Leonard, Samuel Livermore, Theodore Sedgwick, Jonathan Sturges, George Thatcher, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and Artemas Ward. NAYS.-John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Baldwin, Abraham Clark, William Findley, Thomas Fitzsimons, Elbridge Gerry, William B. Giles, James Gordon, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, Daniel Huger, Philip Key, Aaron Kitchell, John Wilkes Kittera, Richard Bland Lee, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Francis Mercer, John Milledge, Andrew Moore, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, Nathaniel Niles, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Josiah Parker, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Peter Syl vester, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, John Steele, Thomas Sumpter, Thomas Tredwell, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, Alexander White, and Francis Willis. And then the main question being put, that the House do agree to the said original motion, it was resolved in the affirmative-yeas 39, nays 22, as follows: YEAS.-John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Baldwin, Abraham Clark, William Findley, Elbridge Gerry, William B. Giles, James Gordon, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister, William Hindman, Philip Key, John Wilkes Kittera, Richard Bland Lee, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Francis Mercer, John Milledge, Andrew Moore, Frederick Augustus [FEBRUARY, 1793. Comptroller of the Treasury to settle the account of Thomas Wishart, late a Lieutenant in the Army of the United States," with an amendment; to which they desire the concurrence of this House. The House proceeded to consider the amendment, and, the same being read, was agreed to. The SPEAKER laid before the House a Letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, accompanied with sundry statements and reports, containing a further answer to the resolutions of this House, of the twenty-third of January last; which were ordered to lie on the table. WEDNESDAY, February 20. A message from the Senate informed the House Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, Nathaniel Niles, that the Senate have passed the bill entitled “ An Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Josiah Parker, Cornelius act making appropriations for the support of GoC. Schoonmaker, Peter Sylvester, Jeremiah Smith, Is-vernment for the year one thousand seven hunrael Smith, John Steele, Thomas Sumpter, Thomas Tredwell, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, Alexander White, and Francis Willis. NAYS.-Fisher Ames, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Jonathan Dayton, Thomas Fitzsimons, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, James Hillhouse, Daniel Huger, Aaron Kitchell, John Laurance, Amasa Learned, George Leonard, Samuel Livermore, Theodore Sedgwick, Jonathan Sturges, George Thatcher, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and Artemas Ward. Mr. SEDGWICK, from the Managers appointed on the part of this House to attend the conference with the Senate on the subject-matter of the amendments depending between the two Houses, to the bill, entitled "An act to regulate the claims to Invalid Pensions," made a report; which was read, and ordered to lie on the table. A Message was received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, stating that it had been agreed on the part of the United States, that a treaty or conference shall be held at the ensuing season with the hostile Indians Northwest of the Ohio, in order to remove, if possible, all causes of difference, and to establish a solid peace with them; and that, as the estimates heretofore presented to the House for the current year did not contemplate this object, it would be proper that an express provision be made by law, as well for the general expenses of the treaty, as to establish the compensation to be allowed the Commissioners who shall be appointed for the purpose; and that he would direct the Secretary of War to lay before the House an estimate of the expenses which may probably attend this measure. The SPEAKER laid before the House a Letter from the Secretary of War, accompanying the estimate referred to in the foregoing Message; which, together with the said Message, was read, and ordered to be committed to Mr. BOUDINOT, Mr. WHITE, and Mr. WADSWORTH, with instruction to report thereon by way of bill or bills. A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate recede from some, and insist on others of their amendments, disagreed to by this House, to the bill, entitled "An act to regulate the claims to Invalid Pensions;" the Senate have also passed the bill entitled "An act to authorize the dred and ninety-three," with several amendments; to which they desire the concurrence of the House. The bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act in addition to an act, entitled An act to establish the Judicial Courts of the United States," together with the amendments agreed to on Monday last, was read the third time and passed. The House proceeded to consider the report of the committee on the petitions of the French inhabitants of Galliopolis, in the territory of the United States Northwest of the river Ohio; whereupon, Resolved, That there be granted to the said petitioners thirty thousand acres of land, to be divided among them in quantities proportioned to their late purchases of the Scioto Company; and that the further quantity of twenty thousand acres be divided equally among such of the said petitioners as are actual settlers of the said territory. Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolution, and that Mr. WADSwORTH, Mr. SEDGWICK, Mr. FINDLEY, Mr. WHITE, and Mr. BARNWELL, do prepare and bring in the same. Ordered, That a committee be appointed to bring in a bill fixing the time for the next annual meeting of Congress, and that Mr. MUHLENBERG, Mr. WILLIAM SMITH, and Mr. SEDGWICK, be the said committee. The House proceeded to consider the report of the committee on the petition of James Warrington, attorney in fact of Joseph Blachford, surviving partner of Harris & Blachford; whereupon, Resolved, That the Accounting Officers of the Treasury cause the sum of nine thousand seven hundred and sixty-eight dollars and ninety cents, charged to John Banks on the thirty-first day of December, one thousand seven hundred and eightythree, to be credited to the said John Banks, and that the sum so credited be charged to the account of such other person as in their opinion shall be justly chargeable therewith. Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolution, and that Mr. GILES, Mr. LIVERMORE, and Mr. FITZSIMONS, do prepare and bring in the same. The House proceeded to reconsider the amendments depending between the two Houses on the bill, entitled "An act to regulate the claims to Invalid Pensions," together with the report of the Committee of Conference on the subject-matter of the said amendments; whereupon, Resolved, That this House doth adhere to its disagreement to the amendment insisted on by the Senate to the fourth section of the said bill. Resolved, That this House doth recede from its disagreement to the amendment insisted on by the Senate to the fifth section of the said bill. THURSDAY, February 21. Mr. BOUDINOT, from the committee appointed, presented a bill making an appropriation to defray the expense of a treaty with the Indians Northwest of the river Ohio; which was received, read twice, and committed. The SPEAKER laid before the House a Letter from the Secretary of War, accompanying his report on the petitions of Rawleigh P. Downman and Oliver Towles; and the same being read, Ordered, That so much of the said report as relates to the petition of Rawleigh P. Downman be referred to Mr. PARKER, Mr. SUMPTER, and Mr. WARD,; that they do examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereupon, to the House. Ordered, That so much of the said report as relates to the petition of Oliver Towles do lie on the table. [H. of R. Ordered, That the said memorial be referred to the Secretary of War, with instruction to examine the same, and report his opinion thereupon to the House. Mr. GILES, from the committee appointed, presented a bill directing the officers of the Treasury to pass to the credit of John Banks the sum of nine thousand seven hundred and sixty-eight dollars and ninety cents; which was received, twice read, and committed. SETTLEMENT OF STATE ACCOUNTS. The House went into Committee of the Whole on the bill received from the Senate, entitled "An act in addition to and for amending the act, for extending the time limited for settling the accounts between the United States and the individual States. A motion was made to strike out the first sec tion of the bill. This section goes to repeal the second section of the former act, which makes the State of Vermont a party to the accounts between the United States and individual States. In support of the motion it was said that Vermont, participating in all the advantages of the independence of the country, and, being a member of the Union, is justly chargeable with its quota of all the expenses that have been incurred; that as, on the one hand, were she a creditor State, she doubtless would come in for her proportion of the balances which shall appear to be Ordered, That a committee be appointed to due from the United States to the creditor States; bring in a bill for the following purposes: To re- so on the other, if she is a debtor State, it is but gulate the mode of taking bail in certain cases; reasonable that she should be liable to pay her to regulate the recovery of costs against informers proportion of those balances; a contrary princior relators, in certain cases; to point out the mode ple, it was said, will increase the burdens of other in which suits for penalties under the revenue States. It was further said, that in all the great laws of the United States shall commence; to ex-questions relative to the finances and accounts of tend executions on transcripts of judgments from one district to another, and to regulate the costs and fees in cases of the commitment of witnesses; and that Mr. MURRAY, Mr. BOUDINOT, and Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH, be the said committee. The SPEAKER laid before the House a Letter from the Secretary of State, communicating certain reasons for delaying his Report on the nature and extent of the privileges and restrictions of the commercial intercourse of the United States with foreign nations, as directed by the order of the House of the twenty-third February, one thousand seven hundred and ninety-one, and suggesting that he is now ready to report on that subject, if the House shall be pleased to direct him so to do. Ordered, That the said Letter be referred to Mr. GILES, Mr. LAURANCE, Mr. WILLIAM SMITH, Mr. BALDWIN, and Mr. BENJAMIN BOURNE; that they do examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereupon to the House. A memorial of Eli Elmer, late a Captain Lieutenant of Artillery in the Army of the United States, was presented to the House and read, praying the liquidation and settlement of a claim for depreciation of pay, supplies of clothing, and other stores, due to him for military services rendered during the late war. the United States, the voice of Vermont has had its proportional influence; and she is therefore on every principle to be considered as a constituent part of the Union, and liable to all the disadvantages resulting from the connexion. She In opposition to the motion, it was said that Vermont, as a Government, bore her proportion of the expenses and sacrifices of the war. was a frontier State, and the only barrier between the United States and Canada. Her exertions during the war were made by her citizens alone, without assistance from the other States. That, in consequence of the peculiar confusion which prevailed in that State, the accounts of her services and supplies were left in a very deranged situation. That though the former act allowed twelve months for her to bring in her claims, yet it is said the other States have had a much longer time. That, though it should be concluded that Vermont ought to be considered as a part of the Confederacy prior to her adoption of the Federal Constitution, the time certainly ought to be extended for her to bring in her accounts. But it was urged that she could not be so considered; and therefore is not a party to the accounts, prior to that period. Since she came into the Union under the new Constitution, she has borne, and will continue to bear her proportion of the bur |