FEBRUARY, 1824.] Additional Sloops of War. [SENATE. were now to be decided, whether the appropriation of a million a year, for eight years, should be made, as in 1816; if that question were before an American Senate, would there be any difference of opinion in regard to it? Has the public mind undergone any change in favor of a different policy? Is the increase of the Navy less desirable than at that time? Do not the same reasons that influenced the Government then, operate as strongly now; or is any one prepared to say that our Navy is as large as is desirable? orable gentleman, to say, that experience had not then proved the necessity of a naval force; that, upon recurring to the history of other nations, particularly of that nation with whom we were then, unhappily, involved in difficulties, it was then hardly to be hoped that any effort of ours would be sufficient to enable us to make any stand, among the nations of the earth, as a naval power; and it was firmly believed, by those who then opposed the progress of our Navy, that we should only build vessels to be captured. But, in the progress of time, the war came on; it furnished a trial of our capacity, Mr. HAYNE, of South Carolina, said he had as a maritime power; and the decision has regretted that the bill now under consideration been such as to produce a uniform opinion, in had been so long delayed, as he had feared that the nation, that it is the duty of the Govern- the strong impression made by the arguments ment to cherish this important means of our of the honorable chairman (and his colleagues) defence. In the brilliancy and the glory of its ex- of the Committee on Naval Affairs, might, by ploits, the Navy had far exceeded the utmost that delay, have lost something of its force. anticipation of its friends, and certainly it had sur- But, since he had heard the able and eloquent passed the expectations of its opponents. While speech of the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. it had been thought that the land alone would be BARBOUR,) in support of the bill, he felt that we the theatre of our victories, it became some- had been amply compensated for the delay times the scene of our defeat, and even of our which had taken place. Mr. II. said he felt it disgrace. And, where it was expected that we to be his duty to yield his support (however should meet with nothing but disaster, there feeble it might be) to this bill, because he had the national character had been elevated. It not only advocated it in the committee of was ascertained, in that war, that our Navy which he was a member, but most cordially would furnish us with the greatest means of approved of the policy on which it was annoyance against an enemy, and that it would founded; and though he was not destined to carry an impression of our power more than partake largely in the honors of victory, (should any other force we could furnish, and conse- the measure succeed,) yet he would certainly quently the feeling towards it had been changed. feel his full share of mortification at its defeat. Attachment to the Navy was now, Mr. B. said, He trusted, therefore, that the Senate would confined to no particular part of the country-bear with him while he endeavored to remove it was universal. Immediately after the war, at a moment when the nation was laboring under all the embarrassments resulting from the contest, when, individually and collectively, the country was distressed in its financial concerns; in April, 1816, a law was passed appropriating one The first objection against the bill was million annually to the gradual increase of the advanced by the honorable gentleman from Navy. Mr. B. said he had mentioned that fact, Maine, (Mr. CHANDLER.) He had endeavored only to call the attention of the Senate to the to give our little fleet "a shot between wind circumstances of the Government at that time. and water." He had attacked it with satire, If a million of dollars, annually, was then appro- which, in a skilful hand, is sometimes a better priated, when the nation was embarrassed, and weapon than argument. He tells us that the individuals were involved in pecuniary distress, friends of the Navy, at one moment, insist surely at this time, when our debt is diminished, "that we have too few ships of the line-the and our population increased, we may provide next, that we have too few 'frigates'-and for the increase of the Navy proposed by this then we are told that we have too few 'sloops bill. Either the appropriation at that time was of war;'" and then, that, in the increase of our the most unwise prodigality, or the bill proposed Navy, we are travelling in a circle to which at this time could not fairly be objected to. there is no end. With all due deference to Another fact might be stated. About three that honorable gentleman, (said Mr. H.,) I subyears since, in 1821, instead of the annual ap-mit that the course of which he complains, is propriation of a million of dollars, only five the only one which could have been pursued, or hundred thousand dollars were appropriated. by which we can ever arrive at a suitable Naval This diminution did not grow out of any hos- Establishment. A navy is, in its very nature, tility to the Navy, but from the peculiar exigen-progressive: this great engine of national decy in which the nation was situated at that time. We were constrained to borrow money for the ordinary expenditures of the Government. But that exigency has now passed away, and the circumstances that then existed have passed away with it. If, then, the question some of the objections which had been urged against the bill, and to show, affirmatively, the policy of building the proposed number of sloops of war, as soon as materials could be prepared for that purpose. fence can be constructed only by gradual means. It must "grow with our growth and strengthen with our strength." It has been well asked, by my honorable friend from Massachusetts, whether the gentleman who makes this objection would, in the construction of his dwelling, expect SENATE.] Additional Sloops of War. [FEBRUARY, 1824, that the chambers and the garret would be built | I believe, in time of war, your navy will not be at the same moment with the cellar? And able to go on, without impressment. You must I (said Mr. H.) will put another case, and resort to impressment; you must embarrass your ask whether, if he employed an agent to commerce; you must stop your privateering, in improve a farm, he would object that he had another war. The history of nations will show first prepared for cultivation a small field that their freedom had done more towards their and then a large one-or whether he would success than any thing else. It was the freedom not discover, in this gradual and progressive of England, more than the bayonets of Russia, improvement, the evidence of increasing wealth that put down the Emperor of France. The and prosperity? But, if the honorable gentle- character of one part of this country, to be sure, man's objections really be not to the increase is commercial, and that of the other is not so. of the Navy, but only to the manner in which How long we shall continue a commercial people, that object was accomplished, he would suggest we cannot tell. I fear the tariff, and some other that he ought not to oppose the bill, but should projects, will convert us into something else. We offer to amend it, so as to embrace the con- are told that Lord Coke spoke of two great blessstruction of vessels of every class at the same ings which England possessed-her Queen and time. Mr. H. feared, however, that such a her Navy. We possess two greater blessings than proposition would never meet with the appro- these. We are as free as any people can be in bation of the gentleman from Maine, much less civilized society, and every man has plenty to that it would be proposed by him. eat. I wish I could say that every one in the A further objection had been advanced by country was out of debt. I do not believe we the honorable member from Maine, (Mr. are in such good circumstances as the gentleman HOLMES,) in the form of a complaint, "that from Virginia has described. The failure of money was never suffered to remain long in the banks has been a great evil in the country. the Treasury," and he tells us "that the Navy is In all countries, I believe, (though I was never the key by which the Treasury is unlocked." in any but my own,) nothing is so pleasing as It is a golden key, sir, said Mr. H., which if it military glory. I well remember, sir, how I unlocks the Treasury, also opens the door to na-loved, in my youth, to listen to stories of tional glory. May the Treasury never be un- battles. It is the delight of men, and women locked for any purpose less conducive to the too. This ardor for military glory is the bane welfare and honor of our country! I have never, of Republics. All history demonstrates that said Mr. H., been able to comprehend the nature too much war has proved their destruction. I of the satisfaction which gentlemen appear to do not pretend to know much of military feel in the contemplation of the Treasury filled affairs; but I believe that men have a parwith gold and silver, and locked up from the ticular gift of God to perform great actions: public use. I prefer, said Mr. H., to see the public it is a special gift, like that with which poets, money expended in great national improve- and orators, and other celebrated men, are ments; in establishments calculated to advance endowed. Men must have a natural turn of the true interests and welfare of the whole people. mind towards it in order to excel in any The gentleman has himself urged an argument business. It is said that our extensive seacoast which makes against his position. He says, it requires a navy. Great Britain has an extenis the habit of the country to exhaust every dol- sive seacoast, and do we wish to have as much lar which comes into the Treasury, and that this starvation and heavy taxes as she has? I had always has been, and ever will be the case. If much rather that our people should have plenty this be true, ought we not, by a judicious and to eat, than a brilliant navy. I entertain no timely appropriation of the balances in the Treas- hostility towards England; but, with all her ury, to prevent a worse use from being made of enterprise and ingenuity, by water and by land, it? If we are in the habit of spending all our we still find her involved with a heavy debt. money, it is certainly best to spend it for wise It is said that navies have added to the glory purposes. If money is to remain idle in the of nations. All the naval powers that have Treasury, Mr. H. thought it had better have re-existed, have fallen, with the exception of old mained in the pockets of the citizens. Mr. MACON rose. He could not say, like the gentleman from Maryland, that he had always been in the right, in regard to this question respecting a navy; nor with the gentleman from Virginia, that he was yet quite convinced upon the subject. Changes of circumstances would be constantly occurring; we are sometimes very rich, and sometimes very poor. It is true the nation appears to be decidedly in favor of a navy. To be useful, a navy must be strong enough to make itself felt; it must be able to meet that of any other nation. I am not willing, said Mr. M., to join stocks with any nation. I am for standing solely upon American ground, and upon no other. John Bull. His landholders, and his handi- one-half. We had better leave this business to those who come after us. We had that appropriation to reduce; and we may have to reduce this also. No navy can supersede the necessity of an army. Your fortifications must be kept in order, and manned. If any reverse in our situation takes place, we shall be compelled to resort to loans. No man can calculate what demands we may have for money, I shall use no hard words towards the Holy Alliance: hard words do not hurt them, and they do us no good. I am willing to be at peace with all the world, and not to abuse anybody. [SENATE. the proper number. This number did not originate with the committee. They inquired, also, what would be the expense, and they were told eighty-five thousand dollars for each vessel. They therefore framed a bill providing for ten vessels, and inserted in it the highest cost of building them. The committee do not wish to press the bill. It was said that there was no need of making the whole appropriation at once; that the timber could not be all procured within the present year, and that, consequently, the money would not all be wanted. To satisfy that objection, I moved you, sir, in Sir, I have heard of economy ever since behalf of the committee, that the appropriation I came into Congress, and every year we spend should be divided, one-half for the present, more and more money. I don't know but this is and the other for the next year; and I am all right, but I think the people are not as free ready, if the Senate think it proper, to move from debt as they were in the days of Washing- for a further reduction of the appropriton, and I believe the Government owes more ation. But why should you vote to build ten than it did then. The gentleman from Virginia sloops of war, without furnishing the means to has alluded to my anecdote about the old man do it? I understand that some part of the and his silver spoons. It might have been right timber necessary for building these vessels is for the old man to have the spoons, but, then, already on hand. It is true that some kinds of .he had the money to buy them with. Some timber can only be cut in the winter, when the few years ago, sir, I was travelling in the sap is down, but some of it may be obtained as southern part of the country, in a circuit well in the summer. The committee have perthrough a part of South Carolina and Georgia-mitted the bill to lie upon the table for ten days, the land is not quite so poor there as it is within order to obtain information from the Departus, but still, no one, who had not seen it, would ment. It is found that $425,000 for the present believe there was any land quite so poor upon year, will not be too large an appropriearth. I stopped at a very miserable tavern; ation. there were three or four persons present engaged in conversation. They were full of a Spanish war, and all in a rage for taking Cuba. They said, "we had beaten Great Britain once in a seven years' war; and again, in two years, and that it would be but a job before breakfast, to whip Spain and take Cuba from her." It is a very easy thing to get into a war. The people may be a little unwilling for it, at first, but some leading spirits get up an excitement, and then it is easily kept up. We are always trying some experiment. When the gunboat system was proposed, I was no advocate for it. I recollect making the remark, upon the occasion, that one British frigate would run over them all, as a fine race horse would run over a litter of Guinea pigs. Mr. LLOYD, of Massachusetts, was gratified to find that no objection had been yet urged against building the ships provided for in this bill. The only objection seemed to be to the amount of the appropriation. The Naval Committee certainly have no desire to press the subject upon the Senate. It is no child of theirs. An honorable member introduced a resolution, early in the session, proposing an inquiry into the expediency of building an additional number of sloops of war. In compliance with the instructions contained in that resolve, the committee proceeded to make the necessary inquiries. They communicated with the head of the Navy Department on the subject. It was his peculiar province to know what number was necessary. He answered to the question of the committee, that ten would be MONDAY, February 9. JOHN TAYLOR, from the State of Virginia, whose credentials were filed during the last session, appeared, was qualified; and took his seat in the Senate. Additional Sloops of War. The Senate resumed the unfinished business of Friday last, being the bill reported by the Committee of Naval Affairs, authorizing the building, of an additional number of sloops of war for the naval service of the United States. Mr. LOWRIE Could not see the necessity of building so many vessels immediately-he doubted the expediency of making so large an appropriation, confined to one or two years. It is said that the vessels are wanted for the suppression of piracy. Mr. L. said he thought that subject was at rest. Congress had authorized the purchase of vessels for that purpose, at the last session; and we have been told, from the proper Department, that the enterprise was successful, and that piracy was suppressed. If this is the case, that exigency does not now exist-of course, there is less necessity to complete these vessels immediately. On the ground that in peace we ought to prepare for war, Mr. L. was willing to vote for the whole number of vessels proposed by this bill. He conceived the only question now to be, at what time the money should be paid. He was in favor of amending the bill so as to appropriate $250,000 for the present year, and $150,000 annually for SENATE.] Mississippi Land Company. 3dly. That, pursuant to the provisions of the lastmentioned act, the claims to the said lands were exhibited to the Secretary of State, including those now in question, but the passage of the final act providing for their adjustment and satisfaction, was delayed until the year 1814. [FEBRUARY, 1824. the four succeeding years. He thought a per- | have, on or before the first day of January next, manent appropriation better than an annual been exhibited by the claimants to the Secretary of one, as such a course would place the subject State, and recorded in books to be kept in his office before the Navy Board, to proceed according for that purpose," &c. to their judgment and knowledge of the business. He was not opposed to the support of a Navy, to a certain extent. He considered that our present naval force, with the addition of the vessels proposed by this bill, would be quite large enough; and, if the act of Congress providing for the gradual increase of the Navy had contained a provision for ten sloops of war, he should have opposed any further increase; but he believed some small vessels were necessary, and was willing to vote for the bill provided the building of the vessels was not hurried. In pursuance of a suggestion which had been made by Mr. SMITH, Mr. BARBOUR moved to fill the blank for the appropriation with "two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for the present year, and two hundred thousand dollars annually for the three succeeding years." This was agreed to-yeas 24, nays 13, as follows: YEAS.-Messrs. Barbour, Barton, Benton, Clayton, D'Wolf, Eaton, Edwards of Connecticut, Elliott, Hayne, Holmes of Mississippi, Jackson, Johnson of Kentucky, Johnson of Louisiana, Kelly, King of New York, Knight, Lloyd of Maryland, Lloyd of Massachusetts, Parrott, Seymour, Smith, Taylor of Virginia, Thomas, and Williams-24. NAYS.-Messrs. Bell, Branch, Brown, Chandler, Dickerson, Findlay, Gaillard, Holmes of Maine, Lowrie, Macon, Noble, Ruggles, and Ware-13. The bill was then ordered to be engrossed, and read a third time. TUESDAY, February 10. Mississippi Land Company. Mr. VAN BUREN, from the Committee on the Judiciary, to whom was referred the petition of Ebenezer Oliver and others, directors of a corporation called the New England Mississippi Land Company, &c., reported as follows: 1st. That, by the articles of agreement and cession of the 24th of April, 1802, between the United States and the State of Georgia, it was agreed that the United States might (in such manner as not to interfere with the payment to be made to the State of Georgia, or with the satisfaction of certain land claims agreed to be confirmed by the United States) appropriate not exceeding five millions of acres for satisfying certain claims on the land then ceded to the United States, commonly called the Yazoo claims; provided the act of Congress making such appropriation was passed within one year. 2dly. That, by the act entitled "An act regulating the grants of land, and providing for the disposal of the lands of the United States, passed the 3d of March, 1803," so much as should be found necessary of the five millions of acres reserved, as before stated, were appropriated to the purpose for which they had been reserved. But it was provided by that act, "that no other claims shall be embraced by this appropriation but those the evidence of which shall 4thly. That many of the claims, so exhibited, were found to conflict with each other, and also with rights which had been acquired by the United States in consequence of surrenders made to the State of Georgia, and which, by virtue of the cession, inured to the United States. 5thly. That, to make the indemnity and provide for the adjustment of the claims in question, the act of the 3d of March, 1814, was passed by which 1st. The President was authorized and required to States, to such claimants, respectively, as had exhibcause to be issued from the Treasury of the United ited their claims agreeably to the act of 1803, certificates of stock, payable out of moneys arising from the sale of said public land, and, among other companies, to the persons claiming in the name or under the Georgia Mississippi Company, a sum not exceeding, in the whole, one million five hundred and fifty thousand dollars. 2d. That the claimants of the lands might file, in the office of the Secretary of State, a release of all their claims to the United States, and an assignment and transfer to the United States of their claim to any money deposited or paid to the State of Georgia, such release and assignment to take effect on the indemnification of the claimants, according to the provisions of that act. 3d. Commissioners were to be, and were, accordingly, appointed "to adjudge and finally determine upon all controversies arising from such claims so released as aforesaid, which may be found to conflict with and be adverse to each other, and also to adjudge and determine upon all such claims under the aforesaid act or pretended act of the State of Georgia, as may be found to have accrued to the United States by the State of Georgia." in all respects, pursuant to a compromise made in 6thly. That the provisions of the act of 1814 were, behalf of the United States with the claimants, including the present petitioners, and that the release, required by the said act, was made by them. 7thly. That, before the commissioners, the petitioners, as trustees of the New England Mississippi Land Company, claimed, as the persons entitled to the one million five hundred and fifty thousand dollars directed to be issued to the Georgia Mississippi Land Company, their claim to indemnity for 957,600 acres, amounting to $130,425, was resisted in behalf of the Georgia Mississippi Company, on the ground that the consideration money for said lands had not been paid, and that therefore they were in equity entitled to the indemnity provided by the act of Congress. The commissioners decided in favor of the Georgia Mississippi Company, and the $130,425 were deducted from the amount awarded to the New England Mississippi Land Company, and distributed as follows: $50,608 48 to individual members of the Georgia Mississippi Company, who had released to the United States under the act of 1814, to whom the same has accordingly been paid; $79,816 52 was FEBRUARY, 1824.] DEBATES OF CONGRESS. Roads in the Territory of Florida. reserved to the United States, as being the shares of those claimants who, not having been paid the consideration money by the persons who had purchased of them, claimed to be still the legal and bona fide owners of said lands, and, as such, had availed themselves of the provision of the repealing act of the State of Georgia, and obtained the repayment of the consideration money by surrendering their titles to the State. [SENATE. to be surveyed for the two other roads would 8thly. The petitioners object to this decision as erroneous, and they ask to have the $130,425 paid to them by the United States, or their release to the extent of the 957,600 acres cancelled, so that they may assert their title to the lands in a court of law. The Supreme Court of the United States, in the case of Brown and Gilman, 4 Wheaton, 256, have decided that the grant from the Georgia Mississippi Land Mr. JACKSON said this road was of great imCompany to the individuals who afterwards constituted and composed the New England Mississippi portance, from two considerations-the first, as Land Company, conveyed the legal estate, notwith- it related to the defence, and the second, in restanding the act of Georgia prohibiting the deeds for gard to the population of that part of the country. If gentlemen would recur to the map of the same from being recorded; and that by the terms of the contract and the law of the land, the grantors that part of the Territory, they would perceive The road had no lien on the lands for the consideration money, that it would be absolutely impossible to succor and that therefore the decree of the commissioners, St. Augustine, except by water. For the grounds of in that respect, was erroneous. that decision, its operation upon the interests of could be made at a small expense, and would the petitioners, and those they represent, and for a furnish the means of immediate defence. He more particular statement of the facts and circum-thought the United States ought to keep an eye stances connected with the whole transaction, the committee refer to the case of Brown and Gilman, to the decree of the commissioners accompanying this report, to the accompanying certificates of two of the commissioners, and to a more particular statement made by the petitioners to the Judiciary Committee, and adopted by them in their report last year on the same petition. 9thly. The committee acquiesce in the correctness of the decision of the Supreme Court, and believe that the decision of the commissioners, on the point of law raised before them, was erroneous; but, as their decree was agreed and declared by the law to be final and conclusive on the rights of all the parties, and as they have not found any circumstances in the case requiring that the same should be opened, but many strong reasons against the propriety of doing so, a majority of the committee are of opinion that the prayer of the petitioner ought not to be granted. The report and resolution were read, and ordered to be printed. FRIDAY, February 20. Roads in the Territory of Florida. The Senate resumed, as in Committee of the Whole, the bill entitled "An act to authorize the laying out and opening certain public roads in the Territory of Florida." on that part of the country-it is now very weak and defenceless. Without this road, people could not be induced so speedily to emigrate to that Territory, and its settlement would be retarded. Mr. LowRIE said there were two objects specified in this bill, which the gentleman had not touched upon-the surveys of two other be made. He wished information on those routes, besides the one where the road was to points; as three thousand dollars was appropriated for the surveys, while only twenty thousand dollars was to be granted for making the other road. Mr. BROWN, in explanation, remarked that the contemplated routes, which were to be surveyed, embraced an extent of six hundred three hundred. Those routes which were to miles; while the road to be made was only Territory, the communication with which is be traced out, touch at different parts of the highly important. Mr. LowRIE inquired of the chairman of the Committee on Roads and Canals, what data the committee had adopted, in estimating the expenditures for these purposes. Mr. BROWN said the committee had before them the statements furnished by the delegate who represented that Territory in the other House. From these, and such information as could be gained from the map of that country, the estimates were made. Mr. JACKSON did not doubt that the appro The bill proposes an appropriation of twenty thousand dollars for the purpose of making a road from Pensacola to St. Augustine, and three thousand dollars for the purpose of sur-priation provided in this bill, with the labor of veying routes for two other roads intersecting said Territory at different points. Mr. BROWN stated that the distance over which the road was proposed to be made, was about three hundred miles; and the distance the military force stationed in that part of the country, would be adequate to the proposed objects-he said that, by this means, a topoand graphical view of the country through which the roads were to run, would be obtained; |