side of the House had shown reason for, other conclusion, than that to the extensupposing that the Cabinet were not very sion of trade we must look for the means united, and their opposite statements of ameliorating the condition of the people. seemed to warrant such an opinion. It But the right hon. Gentleman had said, would be satisfactory if the right hon. that he believed the country were satisfied Chancellor of the Exchequer would state with his conduct; that he had before to the House what amount of revenue he stated he meant to propose a vote of reckoned upon from sugar beyond last credit, and that course was acceptable to year, and also what amount from corn. the country. He doubted the accuracy Beyond this, he would only say, he had of that impression upon the mind of the never taken part in the pressure upon the right hon. Baronet. The right hon. Baright hon. Gentleman to come forward ronet had certainly made that statement with his system of taxation at the present to the House, but he doubted whether moment, still less to make an immediate the impression made by that statement declaration what future course he would had extended throughout the country. adopt. He could easily conceive reasons He spoke from experience in the mathat rendered the present course adopted nufacturing districts, and he thought, by the right hon. Gentleman the more ex- the right hon. Baronet's course would pedient, but, at the same time, he should cause some surprise there. Nor was it not be doing his duty to the right hon. unnatural it should; for if there was any Gentleman, or be representing the opin-one course which the right hon. Gentleions of his constituents, if he did not say, that the course adopted by the right hon. Gentleman was not one that would give general satisfaction, and he did not think, that the arguments urged in favour of that course, were such as to have that degree of weight with the country which the right hon. Gentlemen opposite were inclined to suppose. He was willing to admit, that if, upon accidental circumstances, or if in a sudden and unforeseen manner, power had been placed in the hands of Gentle men opposite, they might have reasonably asked for time to see what measures they could propose. But when they took the ground they had done as the means of turning out one Ministry and substituting another when the deficiency in the revenue had been well known when the budget had been brought forward before the expiration of the first month of the financial year, he did not think, they could plead want of information or want of time. He perfectly agreed with what had been said, as to attributing all the distress that existed to any one cause-to the Corn-law, to the over-trading in 1836, or to any other single cause-but let that distress proceed from what cause it might, whether the Corn-laws, or over-trading, every one said, that it could only be remedied by the extension of our trade, and in the present state of our relations, that ex-nufacturing districts was given to him tension could not be expected, except by relaxation of commercial restriction. No one had proposed any other remedy than that, and no information collected from Poor-law commissioners, or any other source, could bring a Government to any man had opposed more strongly than under the impression that he was unalterably attached to the present system of corn-laws. It had been said in another place, that the verdict of the country had been not against the measures, but the men; that the country doubted the power He of those men to carry the measures they, dually lowered, and the Corn-laws just proposed, and supposed that by placing produced this effect, that without increasthe right hon. Gentleman in power more ing the means of the labourer, they augwould be gained than from those whose mented his difficulties in maintaining his good will was not distrusted but whose family. The real difficulty in the way of power was questioned. So far, therefore, any financial measure was the Corn-law. from supporting the right hon. Baronet It was on account of the Corn-law, after because it was believed he would do no- all, that the budget of last year had been thing, and would allow another year to resisted. The question of the sugar duties elapse without taking measures to relieve was secondary, and the timber duties were the distress of the country, he believed not even discussed. Gentlemen, indeed, that more would be done by the right hon. had come forward to resist interference Gentleman than by the late Government, with one protecting duty, lest another and therefore the country had supported should be touched, and one hon. Member him. He would briefly allude to an argu- had said, "I must defend your monopoly, ment that had been advanced in favour of for, if not, I cannot defend my own.' the present system, grounded upon the believed that measures of the kind proposed importation of foreign corn during the by the late Ministers were indispensable, present week at a low duty. That that and that whatever party administered the should prove the advantage of the corn-finance of the country must have recourse law, he confessed, appeared to him the to them. He felt confident that the right greatest fallacy he had ever heard. It hon. Baronet would propose some such meawas true that throughout the last week sures, but it was impossible not to see the forone shilling was the duty paid upon fo- midable difficulties with which any Governreign corn, but he should like to know ment proposing them would be surrounded. how long that was likely to last? No It might require all the time between this one could attach the least weight to and February to win over their supporters an argument grounded upon a fact that to such a course, and throw aside those must vary from week to week. In his who resolutely opposed it. He trusted the opinion, if anything could demonstrate time would come when the consideration more clearly than another the fallacy of topics like this would be divested of all upon which the Corn-laws were ground-party feeling and considerations, and not ed, it was those very occurrences of last week. For months foreign corn had been excluded, and, meantime, we had had a population half employed, with inadequate means of providing the necessaries of life, debarred from the purchase of corn, because the foreign commodity was not admitted, and England had not sufficient corn to furnish them with. Theu comes the harvest, and the operation of that favoured sliding scale was, that the moment the English farmer was able to supply the wants of the population, an importation of foreign corn took place to the amount of a million and a half of quarters. To the consumer, the evil of the sliding scale could not be more completely demonstrated; instead of producing steadiness of price, the effect was the reverse. It raised the price when the price was already too high, and it lowered the profit of the producer when the harvest enabled him to supply the demand. Hon. Gentlemen opposite had, themselves, overthrown one of the last fallacies by which the Corn-laws had been upheld. From 1836 up to this time the price of corn had been gradually rising, whilst wages had gra be made questions of turning out this or that Government; and that when party motives should have died away, the landed gentlemen would turn a favourable ear to the arguments that had been urged upon them. No accusation was more unjust than that the landed proprietors were wanting in feeling for the sufferings of the population. They had been deluded by such fallacies as that steadiness of price was produced by the sliding scale, and they had been made to believe that this country should be independent of foreign supply, when she had imported a million and a half of quarters of foreign corn per annum, ever since the Corn-laws had been in operation, and when, with an increased population, there were no increased means of supporting it. The landed gentlemen would bind the country to them by placing their interests and those of the people on one common footing-for he believed, in reality, there was no separation of interests. If that should be accomplished by the power and authority of the right hon. Gentleman opposite, the greatest blessing would be conferred upon the country that had been bestowed upon it for years, and The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, when the sugar duties were discussed, the simple question between them was-was British plantation sugar likely to be reduced to such a price as foreign sugar could be imported and sold for, namely, 61s. 6d. He had formed his calculations this way. If the price of British sugar was reduced to that of foreign sugar, consumption would greatly increase, and the revenue would be proportionately aug he would be the last to interpose any diffi-, millions out, were to allow twenty-one culty in the way of obtaining time or delay millions and a half for general items and for the accomplishment of so greatanobject. half a million for corn. He had made The Chancellor of the Exchequer rose this calculation by comparing the amounts to answer a question put to him by the produced by malt and corn in different right hon. Member opposite (Mr. Baring), years, and this mode of drawing an inferin consequence of a misunderstanding of ence was generally found to be pretty what he had stated. When the Budget near the truth. With respect to the was brought forward by the right hon. amount to be received from the sugar Member for Portsmouth last year, the duties he had reasoned in this way, that if right hon. Gentleman distinctly said, that Government succeeded in bringing down he included in his estimates the whole of the price of sugar to a low figure, a large the probable revenue from corn. He un- consumption would be insured, and a sum derstood the right hon. Gentleman to of 700,000l. would most likely be yielded mean, in reference to his statement of the to the revenue. If the right hon. Gentleamount of the customs, not that he could man opposite expected to get that sum tell the exact produce of the various items now, it must be by adopting the principles but that he had formed his opinion as to upon which he had made his calculations. the total result on the usual probabilities. With respect to corn-and this principle was admitted in every discussion on the subject, what the revenue gained by corn was abstracted from the produce of other items, and that what the revenue lost by corn was gained by an increase upon other articles. On these principles his calculations had now been founded; and all that he had meant to say was, that, balancing one set of duties against another set, and comparing the weekly returns of consump-mented. The price of sugar had fallen tion, the calculations he had submitted to the House, would be found to turn out accurate. With respect to what he had inferred respecting the sugar duties, he would explain the grounds on which he had formed his conclusions. Last year, there was a reduction in the sugar duties of 163,000l. as compared with the previous year, but in this year there was an augmentation to the extent of 120,000l., and in only four months from last August, an augmentation of 300,000l. as compared with the corresponding period in the former year. Of course, general views of the results of the customs could only be made, by comparing the produce of the different articles one year with another. Mr. Baring explained. He had stated The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, in June, when he brought forward his the right hon. Gentleman opposite had budget, that he expected the customs, in-proceeded on the idea, that the amount cluding corn, to produce 22,000,000l., he stated would be made up either by and he had been then asked by the right additional consumption of colonial or fohon. Gentleman what sum he had calcu- reign sugar. He (the Chancellor of the lated corn would realise to the revenue. Exchequer) said at the time, that conHe was unable to give a reply at that mo- sumption would greatly increase according ment, but he took the first opportunity of to the fall in the price of sugar, and this stating how he made his figures out prediction had been verified, for sugar had when he became aware, that the Corn- since fallen to the price at which foreign laws would not come on for discussion. sugar could be sold. He had, therefore, The way he had made his twenty-two been fully justified in the view he had greatly, and he was, therefore, not unwarranted in setting down the amount to be realized to the revenue, as being as large or larger than the sum stated by the right hon. Gentleman opposite. Mr. C. Wood said, his right hon. Friend (Mr. Baring's) opinion was, when he brought forward his budget, that a sum of 700,000l. would be produced to the revenue by the alteration in the sugar duties; now, as the right hon. Gentleman opposite had taken his customs at twenty-two millions, he wished to know if the right hon. Gentleman considered that if some of the items fell short, he would have the deficiency made up by the amount of the duty on sugar? taken in respect of the revenue to be de-, now submitted to their consideration. He rived from that source. Resolution agreed to. A resolution towards making good the supply granted to her Majesty, the sum of 10,626,350l., be raised by Exchequer Bills, for the service of the year 1841, was also agreed to. The House resumed-report to be received. POOR-LAW COMMISSION.] Sir J. Graham moved the order of the day, for the House to go into Committee on the PoorJaw Commission Bill. Order of the day read. Mr. Wakley expressed a hope that, considering the late hour of the night, this bill would not be proceeded with, The parties who were opposed to the Poor-law Bill, had made a very great concession in not resisting it in the present Session. He thought, therefore, that they were entitled to consideration, and that the subject should not be brought forward at a time when it could not be fully discussed. If, however, it were the wish of the House to proceed, he would not interpose to prevent it. On the question "that the Speaker do now leave the Chair." The Speaker called upon Mr. Roebuck, who had given notice of a motion, but that Gentleman was not in the House. The right hon. Gentleman then called He submitted this clause to the consideration of the House upon the two scriptural grounds that "those whom God hath joined together, it is not lawful for man to separate," and that it is right "to do unto others as we ourselves would be done by." These were grounds constantly referred to upon the hustings by the supporters of the Government as showing the absolute necessity of an alteration of the existing Poor-law, and he consequently expected that those Gentlemen would feel bound by every feeling of consistency to support the motion which he (Mr. Yorke) was fully aware that it was much more easy to talk of a remedy than to provide one; and a remedy in full he knew at that moment it would be premature, if not factious to expect; but a remedy in some degree, it struck him, it would be in the power of the House to give-a remedy to remove from poverty a legislative penalty. He put it to the House whether it would not be more likely to soften the asperity of feeling entertained by vast masses of the population by a judicious relaxation of the law, than to enforce obedience by the execution of its harsh provisions. He was most anxious that the clause he proposed should not be misunderstood. It was to be observed, that it did not go into any unnatural or wild advocacy of the worthless or offending. For them it proposed to say nothing; they were naturally nuisances to the state, and were justly amenable to its most rigorous enactments. But were there no other paupers than these? Did pauperism fall alone upon the head of the vicious and profligate? Was it not evident, from the many truthful statements that had recently been made in that House, that the country generally was in a state of great distress? It was plain that its resources, comparatively speaking, were stagnant. The national stomach was hungry. Yes; unhappily, the national stomach hungry, and it struck him that that was rather a subject for sympathy and respect than for ridicule and laughter. Well, then, the country being in that state, he put it to the humane feeling of the House, whether the poor man who necessarily became a pauper ought to be punished for his poverty. That was the point and gist of his argument. A married man, as the law stood, could not obtain parochial relief without submitting to a penalty which was disgraceful to human nature. sidering the hour of the night, and considering also that there were many Gentlemen who were anxious to speak upon this subject, he would purposely forbear from going through a number of long statements which he had collected with much care and trouble. He would, therefore, merely allude to one point, which struck him as being of a very important and pungent nature, and which had been suggested to him by one learned in the law, in rather a curious way. It was founded upon an extract from our statute-book showing with what extreme care those who framed was Con the Slaye Emancipation Act had taken to provide for the preservation of the social ties of the negro. In that act it was specially provided that, under no circumstances, should a negro ever be removed from one plantation to another, if such removal subjected him to separation from his wife or children, or even from his reputed wife. So that, in truth, as the law now stood, the wife, or the reputed wife, of a negro in our colonies stood in a better position than the wife of an Englishman; and the unhappy pauper compelled in England to ask parochial relief was put to the degradation of seeing his own wife in a worse condition than the reputed wife of the black. That was his case, and without further comment, he begged to commend it to the justice and humanity of the House. In the last Session the labours of Parliament were of a sudden cut short. The executive Government had brought forward a measure, not dealing with the commission only, but with the whole subject. Some of the proposals made by the Government were withdrawn, other pro cautiously to consider every portion of the important measure which was adopted by Parliament some five or six years ago. There might be defects in the measure: they (the Ministry), were anxious to correct them. There might be imperfections in it: they were anxious to remedy them. But this was a matter of consideration, that required time and caution. To be done safely it must be done by the executive Government upon their responsibility. The Government did not shrink from the arduous task of considering the measure, altering defects, and supplying imperfections where they were found to exist; but he repeated, that time and caution were necessary, and that the interval that the Government asked was not an unreasonable one. All that they asked was, that the commission should be continued until Sir James Graham would avail himself the close of the next Session of Parliament. of the opportunity afforded by the motion Before the commencement of the next just made, of announcing to the House the Session Government would apply its attencourse that he proposed to take, as well tion to the subject. In the course of the with respect to the motion then under its next Session it would be necessary, iinconsideration as to the other motions re-peratively necessary, to legislate upon it. lating to the same subject which had been placed upon the notice paper. It was impossible to over-estimate the importance of the subject which was thus incidentally brought under the consideration of the House. He did not believe, that it was possible to discuss any subject which touched-more nearly touched-the feel-posals upon discussion were adopted or ings, or which was more immediately connected with the interests of so large a portion of our fellow-subjects. Feeling this, as he did most sincerely, he considered it necessary to approach the subject with particular caution. If he followed the hon. Gentleman who had just spoken into the discussion of this particular instruction, involving a portion of the workhouse regulation, he clearly saw that it would be impossible for him not to follow other Gentlemen in other instructions into other details; and thus incidentally and gradually, but with his eyes open, he should be betrayed into a consideration of all the details of the measure. He thought it necessary to be thus explicit. The object of the Government in the introduction of the present bill was, to avoid precisely the course to which the hon. Gentleman would now lead him. Government introduced the bill simply and solely for the continuance of the Poor-law commission till the 31st of July next, with the view of affording to themselves and to the Legislature time and opportunity carefully and amended, and a considerable portion were not considered at all. It would be the duty of the present Government to review the whole of those proposals. From some of them they had already expressed a decided dissent. To that dissent they would, of course, adhere, unless some very cogent reasons, such as he could not anticipate, should lead them to adopt a different opinion. To those proposals which the House in the last Session adopted, the Government would give a more favourable consideration, and those which had not yet been discussed, it would carefully weigh. But, upon the whole, he thought he was entitled to call upon the House, not upon that occasion, to discuss the Poor-law in detail, but to confine itself to the simple and single question before it, whether, under the circumstances, it was not expedient that the commission should be renewed for the term he had stated. He would not be betrayed into a discussion of the point immediately raised by the resolution of the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Yorke). The hon. Gentleman had |