upon it, and he would now read the answers which were received. The secretary to the committee at Lloyd's, writing in the name of the committee, said :

"Their impressions are, that no advantage could accrue to the shipping and commerce of the country by rendering the Caledonian canal more navigable, of sufficient importance to compensate for the expense."

And let the House recollect, that a great portion of the shipping insurance is effected at Lloyd's, The answer received from Bristol was :

embracing nearly the whole of the trade of the country carried on in that direction, from which it appeared, that in 1838, the number of ships was 2,042, the tonnage being 391,400 tons. The number of vessels going north about from London, Liverpool, Hull, Bristol, and Newcastle was 1,386, with a tonnage of 274,000. Now, supposing all the other vessels that went north about to have used the Caledonian canal, the number would only have been 656, and the tonnage 117,000. The number of vessels that went north about from Dundee, Glasgow, and Leith was 280, the tonnage 49,000. But to the great number of vessels passing through the Pentland Firth the canal was of no value. The number that went through in 1838, was 1,827, of which 1,175 were British "After having made the necessary inquiry vessels, 206 American, 220 belonging to of the merchants and shipowners, we have come Northern nations, and 26 from the West to the unanimous conclusion, that the trade of Indies. Now, with respect to the expenses. this port does not appear to us to be interested During the last few years they had been in the matter, and, in our opinion, were the nearly five times the sum annually recontemplated alterations carried into execu-ceived. Such an expenditure he consition, few or no vessels leaving here to the westward would take advantage of the Cale-dered a perfect waste of the public money,

"This port is not materially interested in the question."

The communication received from the Chamber of Commerce at Hull was to this effect:

donian canal."

Liverpool, from which 666 vessels went north about, the year before, did not condescend to send any answer; and as it was thought the letter might have miscarried, a second was written, and according to his recollection the answer returned was that they considered the project of no value to their trade. From Newcastle no answer whatever was received. The communication received from Dublin was to the following effect ;

and he trusted that the Government would send down some person in whom they could place confidence, together with an engineer, both being unconnected with Scotland, to examine the work and ascertain whether it could be conducted in a manner beneficial to the country. If they would take the advice, he was convinced that no further outlay would take place, and that the Chancellor of the Exhequer would save at least 300,000. He would now state to the House the evidence on which this outlay was recommended. Mr. "I am directed by the council of the Cham-Walker was asked this question with reber of Commerce to inform you that the merchants of this port, engaged in the Baltic trade, are of opinion that no material benefit

would accrue to them if the Caledonial Canal was completed and steam-tugs placed thereon."

From Belfast the following resolution resolution was received:

"Resolved, that the Chamber of Commerce of this town do not consider the advantages likely to be derived to the trade of Belfast to

be such as to warrant them in recommending such a large toll as that contemplated for the Caledonian canal."

The replies from Dundee, Glasgow, and Leith were in favour of Mr. Walker's plan. A return was also made by the Custom House of the number of vessels that went north about, from sixteen of the largest commercial ports in the United Kingdom,

ference to the estimate." And did you make any accurate or minute survey of the canal?" His answer was:—

"I did: when I say minute survey, I mean such a survey as I should make without taking the depth and dimensions of the different parts. This I requested Mr. May to do when I left the canal."

Another question was,

he replied, "I was about a week altogether "What time did it occupy you?" To which upon the line; after having finished the sur vey, I left with Mr. May instructions as to the detailed surveys. About six months afterwards we met, when the full detail of the works was gone into, and an estimate of every part was formed from his (Mr. May's) detailed survey."

Now here was a chief engineer making an estimate without having taken either

the depth or dimensions of the canal, re- | It was commenced about forty years ago, lying entirely on the evidence of Mr. May, on the suggestion of Lord Colchester, Mr. an ordinary engineer. No doubt Mr. May Isaac Hawkins Brown, and Mr. William was a trustworthy man, but from what he Smith, of Norwich, whose political opin(Mr. Williams) saw of him before the ions were essentially different, but who committee, he must say that he did not philanthropically suggested that it would consider him as possessing a sufficient afford employment to persons residing in knowledge of engineering to form an esti- the Highlands of Scotland. After the mate of such a work as that now under works had been contracted for, persons discussion. The estimate was founded on accustomed to excavations were engaged; a very loose calculation, and he thought and he believed, that not a single Highsuch a large sum ought not to be expended lander was employed. He understood without some further inquiry. Although that some portion of the work was in a the report of the committee was agreed to dangerous state. One part of the canal in 1839, some doubt was entertained on had been constructed by damming up one the subject, and the committee was revived of the large locks twelve feet above its in the following year, when Mr. Steuart natural level. The embankment was now stated that he had received an intimation rather insecure, and if it should give way that a joint-stock company had been a large district would be inundated, and formed, who were ready to take the mat- probably a great sacrifice of life and pro ter out of the hands of the Government, perty would take place. He was quite but the negotiation was not carried into satisfied, that the work would never pay effect. No evidence in favour of the work its own expenses. Such works ought was adduced except that of gentlemen not to be undertaken as national works, connected with Scotland; and if the work but by individuals, who would be more was likely to confer so much benefit on likely to take an interest in their managethat country, it was rather strange that ment than any public commissioners. He some of the commercial towns and coun- trusted the expense which had been inties did not undertake its management. curred in this instance would be a warning Under all the circumstances, he trusted to the House not to undertake the exthe Government would consent to post- ecution of public works. The hon. Mempone the vote until the next Session. ber for Coventry had alluded to the committee of 1840, and to a proposition for transferring the canal to the management of a joint-stock company. The canal was to be placed under their control, they undertaking to make all the necessary repairs, and to be restricted to a certain amount of toll. It was true the negotiation had been broken off at that time, but within the last few days another proposal had been made on the subject. It was quite clear, that certain works must be proceeded with forthwith, but he believed, that sufficient sums remained for that purpose out of the supply last voted. Vote postponed.

Sir Robert Peel was of opinion that the towns and counties of Scotland were much too wise to accept of the offer. A sum of money had been expended on the undertaking, which there was a natural reluctance to lose; but if no public advantage was likely to accrue from following it up, he thought the sooner it was abandoned the better. It would be wiser not to proceed than to incur the loss of several hundreds of thousands of pounds more. He, therefore, had no hesitation in agreeing to postpone the vote, and thus afford an opportunity of considering what steps should be taken to prevent the loss of what had already been expended. No further expenditure ought to take place until an impartial inquiry should be entered into with respect to the probable advantages which would result from the carrying out the project.

SUPPLY-MR. VIZARD.] On the question that the sum of 10,7501. be granted to her Majesty to complete the payment of the salaries and expenses of her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Home Department,

Sir G. Clerk did not consider the work likely to be of benefit to Scotland, and had Colonel Sibthorp said, he felt it to be protested against the large sum which his duty again to object to the expense had been annually voted. The work was attendant upon a new appointment which undertaken not on the recommendation had been made by the late Government of of any person connected with Scotland. I a gentleman, with whom he (Colonel Sib

which Mr. Vizard's salary was provided for up to the 5th of October next; but he had announced to Mr. Vizard that it would be the duty of her Majesty's Government scrupulously and carefully to

of the Home-office was carried on, and in that review he should cordially act in concert with his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer; that his appointment was not to be held as a bar to that review, and that, as at present advised, he did not think it desirable that the office he (Mr. Vizard) held under the Home Department should be continued.

thorp) had no acquaintance, to the office of solicitor to the Home Department, After no less than eighteen changes in the Government of the country since the year 1798, no such appointment had been thought of, and it was only during a re-review the mode in which the law business cess, in which Parliament could not interfere, that her Majesty's late Administration had thought fit to make the appointment. Then it was that he found, that Mr. William Vizard had been appointed to the new post of solicitor to the Secretary of State for the Home Department. But on looking to the communications which had passed between the Home-office and the Treasury, he found that the noble Lord at that time at the head of the Home Department, when appealed to on the subject of this appointment, stated, that the business of the office would require the undivided attention of a professional man of experience and talent; and yet the noble Lord had, in point of fact, appointed a man who held another valuable situation that of secretary of bankrupts, with a salary of 1,2007., a man who during the period he had held that situation had received no less than 18,141/. 17s. 8d. To this appointment he (Colonel Sibthorp) had taken an objection on a former occasion, and he wished now to know from the right hon. Baronet, whom he rejoiced now to see at the head of the Home Department, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's pre-istration of the law. There were very few sent Government to cancel that appointment; and, above all, whether, in the event of their continuing that office, it was their intention to retain in it a gentleman who held, besides it, the office of Secretary of Bankrupts ?

Sir T. Wilde was satisfied that the result of the review to which the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Home Department had alluded, would be that the public service at present demanded and would continue to demand the continuance of the office to which allusion had been directed. Of such an appointment as that of Mr. Vizard he had no knowledge until it had been made; but this he did know, that his hon. and learned Friend Sir John (now Lord) Campbell, then the Attorney-general, and himself had designed making a representation in furtherance of such an arrangement to the proper department of the late Administration. The duties of the Secretary of State for the Home Department, were not only most numerous but onerous in connexion with the Admin

days indeed upon which the Secretary of State for the Home Department, did not receive letters from magistrates and others requiring instruction and advice upon the construction of various acts of Parliament. Some of these inquiries required the earSir J. Graham said, he could not forget liest possible attention, in order to save the jealousy with which the hon. and gal- magistrates from committing themselves, lant Member for Lincoln had regarded or to prevent other similar and equally the creation of, and the appointment to, unfortunate evils. The course had been, the office to which his hon. and gallaut it was true, that when the Secretary of Friend had alluded. He differed from State had been asked for advice, for that his hon. and gallant Friend in no one par- public functionary to apply to the Treaticular, but he felt bound to say, that Mr.sury in order to obtain the opinion of the Vizard had been for twenty-five years his solicitor and private friend, and yet, from a sense of public duty, and concurring with his hon. and gallant Friend, he (Sir J. Graham) had not been in the office he had now the honour to fill forty-eight hours before he sent for Mr. Vizard, and told him that it was not his intention to interfere with the vote to which Parliament had come last Session, and by

solicitor of that board upon the particular point upon which advice was solicited. Now, the Secretary for the Home Department, had various other important duties connected with the Administration of Justice to perform, and yet he had under the old system first to solicit the advice of the solicitor to the Treasury; that solicitation answered, many statements as to the law and facts, frequently elaborate, were és

662

terest demanded, and still continued to demand, the constant attention of a soli citor for the Home Department. The Customs, the Excise, the Mint, each had their separate solicitor, and, that being the case, why should the Secretary of State, before he could act, be compelled to wait for the opinions of the Attorney and Solicitor-general, when, with such an officer near him, the Secretary of State could get, if not the best, at least very competent advice upon such questions within twelve hours?

matter would be duly considered in the He trusted that the whole course of the review of the whole subject to which the right hon. Baronet, the Secretary for the Home Department had alluded.

sential; above all, an early answer was necessary, and upon most of them no man was more competent to give such an answer than was Mr. Vizard himself. Such was the real state of affairs, and on the score of economy, he was of opinion, that the saving of fees to the Attorney and Solicitor-general upon such points would go considerably, if not wholly, to make up the amount of Mr. Vizard's salary. For Mr. Vizard, he was not prepared to speak; but thus much he would add, that he did not believe that a dozen cases could be sent from the Home-office without requiring the party referred to, not only to wade through acts of Parliament, but to examine law authorities-a duty which none but a professional man could discharge. He could also state, that since Mr. Vizard's appointment there had been a great once to pronounce a positive opinion upon Sir R. Peel said, he should be diminution of points and cases referred to the subject, but having filled the office for sorry at the law officers of the Crown. But with some years of Secretary of State, he must regard to prosecutions, admitting as he at present state that he did not think such did the high qualifications possessed for an office as that which the hon. and such purposes by Mr. Maule, the present learned Gentleman who had just sat down solicitor to the Treasury, than whom a had eulogized was absolutely required. more diligent, indefatigable, and intelli- During the time he had held the office of gent man never filled the office-still, Home Secretary he had an Under Secreeven that Gentleman, pressed as he must tary (Mr. Hobhouse), who, though brought have been with the affairs of his own de- from the Treasury, discharged all those partment, had found it absolutely neces- duties which the hon. and learned Gensary to employ others to conduct prosecu- tleman opposite had overlooked, as betions which the public safety and protec- longing to an under secretary of state. tion demanded. At the period of the He spoke with the greatest respect for machine-breaking in the Midland Coun- Mr. Vizard, when he said, that with the ties, Mr. Tallents, of Newark, had been assistance of such a man as Mr. Phillipps, so employed, and must have made, as he the Secretary of State for the Home Dedeserved, a large demand upon the Trea- partment, had little to require even upon sury. Again, the late prosecutions in the most intricate and delicate construcWales were of such a character and im- tion of statute law. And of Mr. Hobhouse portance, as to demand an attention upon he must add, that he very well rememthe part of the solicitor to the Treasury bered Sir Vicary Gibbs, remarking, that which, consistently with his other avoca- he would not hesitate to put his name tions and duties, it was impossible he to any legal opinion given by that could discharge. And hence, he was sa- gentleman. He repeated, therefore, that tisfied that not only public economy, but the hon. and learned Gentleman had ap. public justice, would be advanced by the parently overlooked the permanent naappointment of such an officer as the soli-ture of the appointment of the under citor for the Home Department. He Secretary of State, and that the office knew that no situation required more skill was usually, as at present, filled by genand attention. With regard to Mr. Viz-tlemen of legal eminence. He (Sir R. ard personally he could say, that with Peel) was of opinion that the sum of 1,000l. a-year for himself, and 500l. a-2,500l. per annum was quite enough to year for an assistant, he had renounced secure sufficient legal experience and all private professional practice in the talent to the Treasury and to the Homecourts. He would only add, that during office. Without, however, pronouncing a his practice as a Queen's counsel, and positive opinion now that an inquiry was also during the period he had held the to be prosecuted, he would say, as the office of Solicitor-general, the public in-result of his personal experience, that it

was better to have an able under Secretary of State rather than a solicitor as legal adviser to the Home-office. Colonel Sibthorp entertained the high-six months incapacitated him from form