Imágenes de páginas
PDF
EPUB

think.

doubt whatever that it was not the intenLord Campbell said, there could be no tion of the framers of the bill to exclude Irish barristers from eligibility to those appointments; but as there were some doubts whether (as the clause was now worded) the Crown had the power of the appointment, he thought it the safest way to put an end to them.

noble and learned Friend whether, if it Lord Brougham would suggest to his were found necessary to name the two new vice-chancellorships as appointments which the Crown had the power under this Vill to grant to Irish barristers of fifteen years” standing, it might not cast a doubt on the power of the Crown to appoint Irish barristers to the vice-chancellorship created by the act the 53d George III.

given by the Bill to the suitors in Chan- | learned Friend on the woolsack seemed to 490 cery by agreeing to the amendment proposed by his noble and learned Friend, who had not said one word respecting the transference of the business now transacting in the equity side of the Exchequer, which must of necessity increase the business in the Court of Chancery. Neither had his noble and learned Friend in any way alluded to the Committee, which reported upon the existing abuses in the Court of Chancery. Before that Committee, barristers, solicitors, and agents, and, indeed, all persons concerned in the business of that Court, were examined, and the opinion of all, without exception, was, that one additional judge would not relieve them from the pressure. The evidence indeed led many to doubt whether two additional Judges would be sufficient, because it was fully expected when the business in the Court of Chancery was freed from delay, that it would naturally increase, for they said it was now the constant practice for the profession to dissuade persons from coming into the Court, unless the cause was of some magnitude in consequence of the extreme delay in obtaining justice. The evidence given before that Committee had led many to change their opinions. They went in with an opinion that one judge would be sufficient, and were convinced that two would scarcely answer. An experience of forty years in the Court of Chancery satisfied him that one additional judge would not be sufficient.

Amendment negatived.

Lord Campbell wished to propose an amendment, for the purpose of removing all doubts as to the power of the Crown to appoint Irish barristers of 15 years' standing to any of the judgeships created by this bill. According to the way in which the part of the bill to which he referred was worded, there were doubts whether the Crown had such power, and it would be better at once to remove them by such an amendment as he proposed.

The Lord Chancellor (Lord Lyndhurst) did not object to the proposed amendment, though he thought the bill did not require it, for to him it appeared that the words of the bill were quite clear, and that there could be no doubt of the power of the Crown to appoint Irish barristers of fifteen years standing to the judgeships named in

it.

Lord Brougham doubted much whether the matter was so clear as his noble and

gestion of the noble and learned Lord very The Earl of Wicklow thought the sugimportant, and he trusted their Lordships would not pass the bill without due consideration; for certainly if amended as now proposed, it might have the effect of excluding barristers of the Irish bar from eligibility to the judgeship under the 53d George III., which he was sure never was the intention of the Legislature.

of the question, and would undertake to Lord Campbell admitted the importance have a clause prepared on the third reading which would remove all doubts on the subject.

The Lord Chancellor suggested, that the amendment might be deferred to the the consideration of this part of the bill and third reading. The amendment in its present state might be productive of great inconvenience, as there were many other acts similarly worded, on which similar doubts might be raised.

Amendment postponed.

sion of the compensation clauses, which Lord Cottenham then moved the omis would be restored in another place.

of compensation, to read a note which he Lord Brougham wished, on the subject had received from his noble and learned Friend, the Lord Chief Justice (Denman). The noble and learned Lord read the note, which referred to the noble Lord's (Brougham's) doubt of the propriety of any increase of the judges in any of the courts; and said, that the writer concurred with the principle of compensation in all cases him (Lord Brougham) in dissenting from where the parties appointed to the of

fice intended to be abolished or remodelled had due notice of such intention at the time of their appointment. On this principle, he objected to compensation being given for the loss of his appointment to the master of the Court of Exchequer, to whose talents and high character he cordially bore his full testimony. Neither did he think his noble and learned Friend, the Lord Chief Baron was entitled to compensation for the loss of any patronage which he had in that high office, as he must have been aware of the contemplated changes at the time of his appoint-.

ment.

He would admit that compensations for legal and other civil appointments had been allowed under the Municipal Corporation Act, but these were under peculiar circumstances, which did not exist in the cases to which he referred. The noble and learned Lord was understood, in conclusion, to express his concurrence in the principles laid down in his noble and learned Friend's note.

of the Government to the subject, and bru that something would be done in it.

The Duke of Wellington said, tha would lose no time in calling the anaesitan of his right hon. Friend the Secretary a the Home Department to the matter. Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Monday, September 6, 1841. MINUTES.] Bills. Read first time:- Lagi Na qua -Passed through all its stages:-Earl of Sextang Indemnity.

Petitions presented. By Mr. Hawes, from Wien ko

land, for a Repeal of all Taxes on Food. Elections. Petitions complaining of, for Carigna Cork co., Kerry, Nottingham, L., Wakefit, imam Wigtown, Rochester, Athlone, Gloucester, ey, he cy., Blackburo, Louth, Tipperary, Latlaid ampton, t., Flint, Newry, Newprt, Amat Burghs, Sudbury, Bewdley, Reading, Frartva, Falmouth.

THE EARL OF SCARBOROUR'S Ispar NITY.] A bill for the indemnification d The amendment (for the omission of the the right hon. John Saville Lumley, La money clauses) was agreed to.

Bill to be read a third time.

PUNISHMENT OF DEATH] The Earl of Wicklow wished, before the rising of the House, to call the attention of their Lordships, particularly of his noble Friends, her Majesty's Ministers, to a subject which he considered of much importance. It would be in the recollection of their Lordships that, some time last Session a bill had been passed for abolishing the Punishment of Death in certain cases, but the bill applied to Great Britain and did not extend to Ireland. Now, he considered it a very singular anomaly that there should be one law for the punishment of the same class of crimes in one part of the United King dom and another in another, and that what was punished with a milder sentence in one place should be visited with the penalty of death in another. He had felt it his duty to call the attention of the noble Marquess lately at the head of the Home Department to the circumstance, and pointed out to him that as a considerable period must elapse before the act came into operation, there would be time to remove the anomaly before them. The noble Marquess at the time gave him what he considered as a pledge that the Government would take up the matter, but as the noble Marquess having retired from office was not in a condition to fulfil that pledge, he begged to call the attention of his noble Friends the Members

of Scarborough, from the penalties curred by him, in having sat and voted a the House of Lords, without having br duly taken the oaths, and signed the Parliamentary roll, to which they asked the concurrence of the House, was broug down from the House of Lords, and read first time.

object of the bill, and said, that he had Sir T. Fremantle briefly stated the been requested to apply to the Hease that the standing orders might be t pended, and the bill passed through all stages that evening. The hon. Gentlema cited the case of the Earl of Harboroug, in 1820, as a precedent.

Viscount Palmerston was ready to give his assent to the proposed course of proceeding.

Mr. Wakley said, that he did not mean to oppose the bill, but rose to express a hope, that when, through ignorance, a poor man violated the law, the same course would be pursued in respect of his offence.

Bill passed through its several stages, and returned to the Lords.

THE SPEECH-SUPPLY.] On the Order of the Day for the consideration of the Speech of the Lords Commisioners being read,

Sir G. Clerk said, that in the absence of the responsible Ministers of the Crown,

Motion agreed to; it was ordered that the committee on the Navy Pay Bill be taken on Wedneday, and the House adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS, Tuesday, September 7, 1841. MINUTES.] Bills. Read a third time :-Foreigners

cration; Administration of Justice.

Petitions presented. By the Bishop of Chichester, from the Clergy and Archdeaconry of Chichester, for an Alter

ation in the mode of Rating Tithes.

he should not think of making any motion | ham wished to call the attention of their on which any difference of opinion would Lordships, and more particularly that of be likely to rise, but it was necessary that his noble and learned Friend on the woolthe usual motion that a supply be granted sack, to another, and in his opinion, very to her Majesty should be made, before the important subject-he meant the state of public business could be proceeded with. our penal statutes. It was a fact well He would, therefore, avail himself of the known to very many of their Lordships, meeting of the House that day and to- that there existed on our statute-book morrow, to take steps which would facili- many penal statutes, which contained very tate the progress of business, when the high and severe penalties attaching to the respousible Ministers of the Crown should commission of certain acts, or the omistake their places. He would, therefore, sion of certain forms, and instead of these move, that a supply be granted to her being allowed to remain a dead letter, or Majesty. erased, they were sometimes made a handle for the infliction of great oppression. The case of the bill which their Lordships had passed yesterday, was an illustration of the kind of penal statute to which he had referred. There were on our statute-book certain high penalties to be inflicted on Members of either House of Parliament, for taking their seats and voting, without taking the oaths, and subscribing the ParConse-liamentary roll, but those were so extremely severe-so far out of all proportion to the acts or omissions to which they were attached, that no one ever dreamed that they ought to be inflicted. If the DELAYS OF THE LAW.] Lord Broug-penalty were a fine of 401. or 501., or ham said, he had to present a petition from Isaac Winter, a poor man of Wilton, in the county of Somerset. This unfortunate man stated, that he was suitor in a case pending before their Lordships as an appeal, and his complaint was of the delay which had arisen in its consideration. In the course of the discussion on the appeal, some questions of law had arisen, on which it became necessary to have the opinions of the judges, and the questions had been referred to those learned persons some time in 1839, but they had not agreed upon the answers that should be given. The fact was, the questions in volved points of law of great difficulty, and he believed that of the judges to whom the questions were referred, half were of one opinion, and half of another. However, it was of great consequence to this poor man, who was now seventy years old, that a decision should be given as early as possible, for the case was one of great hardship. He had mentioned the case, knowing that the mere mention of it would be enough to direct the attention of his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack to it.

1004., it would be considered quite enough, and it would be at once paid, without for a moment rendering a bill of indemnity necessary; but what were the penalties as they now existed on the statute-book, applying to the case he had referred to? They amounted to a total and perpetual disqualification for holding any situation of trust or honour or profit; they incapacitated the unfortunate offender, however much his act might have been an error of which he was unconscious at the time, for ever having a seat in either House of Parliament; they incapacitated him from the power of suing, or of entering any plea in any court of law or equity, or from taking any legacy or any gift or profit by any legal document. In fact, this was total civil incapacitation, and almost equivalent to civil death, and the consequence was, that no one thought that the penalty ought to be enforced; and as it ought not to be enforced, it ought not to be allowed to remain on the statute-book. There were other penal statutes which, though not so severe in the penalties they enacted, were nevertheless extremely annoying and harassing, and might be made a means of gratifying private rancour or animosity. OLD PENAL STATUTES.] Lord Broug-He alluded to those statutes intended to

enforce attendance of persons at their parish churches on Sundays: by one statute the fine was 1s. for each omission to go to church on Sunday; but by another statute, the fine was raised to 201., if the party omitted to attend his parish church for four successive Sundays. These, he repeated, were in themselves most annoy ing, not so much from the amount of the fines they inflicted, though in the second case to which he had referred, the fine would be ruinous to many, but from the harassing and abuses to which they might give rise. It was not, he believed, more than a month back from the time he was speaking, when eleven persons were convicted in 1s. penalties for non-attendance at church on Sundays. The fines, it was true, were not much, but there were, besides, the costs where the parties refused to pay. In one case the costs were 14s., and in another 23s., and for non-payment one party was sentenced to be imprisoned sixty-three, and the other sixty-one days. Now, he supposed their Lordships would agree with him in thinking, that any person who was anxious to see the parish churches duly attended on Sundays, could not well hit upon a mode worse calculated to insure that object than those coercing fines. Indeed, it was about the best mode of insuring church non-attendance that could be devised; besides, as he had said, this power was liable to be perverted to most capricious purposes. He cast no blame on any body; but surely our statutes ought not to be left in a state in which to enforce them would be disgraceful. He had heard blame cast for having many of these fires received on account of the Sovereign, or of the State, but there was no option, when once the statute was enforced. He repeated, that he mentioned these circumstances for the purpose of having the attention of Government, and particularly of his noble and learned Friend on the woolsick, directed to the subject. The law ought to be altered on these matters, or perhaps, what would be better, there ought not to be any law at all on many of them.

Subject at an end.

FOREIGNERS CONSECRATION OF BISHOPS] The Archbishop of Canterbury moved the third reading of the Foreigners Consecration of Bishop's Bill.

The Earl of Radnor did not exactly understand the grounds upon which this

bill had been introduced, and looked wa it as being quite unnecessary and useser The Archbishop of Canterbury we that the bill had been introduced was view to the better regulation of the cos gregations of English persons, wha be settled in foreign countries, and particularly on the shores of the Mec ranean and in the Turkish empire. Ts bill, it was to be observed, could be za into operation only upon the concurren of her Majesty being expressed-a had been introduced with the perfect s-3port of her Majesty's Secretary of S for Foreign Affairs.

The Earl of Radnor said that his jection was that the bill was not called by necessity. It was an enlargement of ma act of George 3d, and it assumed that a was unlawful for any Archbishop to cossecrate a Bishop without the license of r Crown. It did not appear to him, however, that this was the case. With respect to the consecration of Bishops in Engiand. no doubt the license of the Crown was requisite, but that was required in reference, not to the spiritual affairs of the BibTE but to their temporalities. This bui, bowever, related solely to the spiritual matters of the new Bishops proposed to be a> pointed, and he conceived that it was quite unnecessary.

The Archbishop of Canterbury sad. that several eminent learned persons had been consulted on the subject, and they were all of opinion that such an act as the present was necessary. The law was a ble to great doubts and exposed him ard others to a charge of acting illegally. Ta remove these doubts was the object of the Bill. It was brought forward by the advice and recommendation of the law o cers of the Crown.

The Earl of Radnor thought it was somewhat of an anomaly that Archbishops and Bishops, who claimed the right of or. dination by virtue of their spiritual succession from the apostles, and down from our Saviour himself, should still consider themselves not entitled to exercise that power without license from the Crown. He would not oppose the passing of the Bill, but he considered it wholly unneces sary.-Bill read a third time and passed.

ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE.] Lord Cottenham moved the third reading of the Administration of Justice Bill. Bill read a third time.

came in, "unless otherwise provided;" but it was not so in the present bill.

The Lord Chancellor had no objection to the amendment, but he had always understood, that "barrister" meant a mem ber of either bar. There were, he was aware, instances of exceptions-for instance, the revising barristers in Ireland must be altogether Irish, to the exclusion of the English bar; and there were some other instances where the members of the Irish bar were named, to the exclusion of English; but when this was done, and when the particular bar was named, the fair inference was, that when not so named the word "barrister" should be taken to mean a member of either.

Lord Campbell had prepared a clause, in pursuance of the intention he had given on a previous evening, in order to remove doubts as to the eligibility of Irish barristers for the situation of Vice-Chancellor under the Bill then before their Lordships. It appeared to him that as the Bill at present stood such a clause was necessary. The Bill referred to the English Court of Chancery and the English Court of Exchequer, and when it stated barrister-atlaw, it might very naturally be inferred that it merely applied to English barristers. With every deference to the opinion of his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack, he continued to think that such an amendment as this was necessary. To obviate the objection of his noble and Lord Campbell said, that his attention. learned Friend, that the insertion of the had been called to the clause by some declaration might render other acts doubt-eminent Irish barristers, and by some of ful, he had worded the clause so as to ap- the Irish judges. ply to the present and to all acts which had passed in which the word "barrister" might occur. The noble Lord moved his amendment, to the effect," And be it further enacted and declared, that in the construction of this Act, and of every other Act relating to offices and appointments, the expression barrister, or barrister-at-law be taken to mean barristers practising in England or Ireland, unless where it may be otherwise expressly provided."

Bill passed.

BISHOPS (IRELAND.)] Lord Wharncliffe brought up a report from a committee of their Lordships, naming the four Irish Bishops whose turn it was to sit in the House for the present Session, which was ordered to be printed. He then moved, that the Lord Bishop of Derry having taken the oaths and his seat by mistake, thinking that it was his turn to sit as one of the four Irish Bishops for the present Session, his name be struck off the roll.

Ordered.

Lord Brougham thought it a very useful addition to be made to the bill, and if it satisfied a respectable, a learned, and able body of men, it ought to be introduced. He would remind his noble and learned Friend, however, that when the bill was sent down to the other House last year, when his noble and learned Friend was a Member of that House, he had not then thought of introducing such a clause. It appeared to him, that the bill would merely make them eligible, and it was very proper that they should be so; but let it not go for more than it was worthlet it be understood, that there was no in-practices with respect to the burgess-roll, tention of appointing an Irish barrister to such a situation.

The Duke of Wellington said, the amendment was most comprehensive, for it went to include all acts in which the word "barrister" occurred; but there were some appointments which were only by Irish, and some only by English barristers, such for instance as the barristers revising the registration.

Lord Brougham.-There the proviso

DUBLIN CORPORATIONS.] The Earl of Glengall had to present to their Lordships a petition on a subject of considerable importance, to which he was anxious to call the attention of her Majesty's Government. It was from Dublin, and signed by about 1,000 inhabitants, merchants, bankers, and others, being householders and ratepayers in that city. The petitioners complained of several gross

on the insertion of the names on which roll was founded the right to vote for members and officers of the corporation. The subject was one which very naturally excited very strong feelings. The petition detailed such scenes of fraud and corruption as never before, he believed, had come before their Lordships, even from Ireland itself. The object of those fraudulent practices was to influence votes in the election of municipal officers. The

« AnteriorContinuar »