into any discussion of those bygone transactions which have led to differences be tween the two great parties in the Sate and ultimately, as we have just heard, u the resignation of her Majesty's Ministen. But I should do injustice to the feeing, I am sure, of the House, not less than in the tone and manner in which the be Lord who has just sat down has addressed us, if I did not express from this side d the House, what I am convinced is felt by all-a cordial participation in the se ment of the noble Lord, that whatever may have been our political differenc throughout those great contests, no ser ment of personal bitterness has been engendered in the minds of any of Members. Sir, it was my good fortune, for some time, to have the honour of acting in political accordance with the me Lord; it has been my misfortune for some years conscientiously to differ from the course which the noble Lord has seen it to be his duty to follow; but, as I claim for myself, and for every Gentleman who has felt it his duty to oppose him, the belief on the part of the House, that we have acted from conscientious motives, and from none other, so I fully give to the noble Lord the credit of having been influenced by no consideration but the sense of duty, which, with a man of ba high honour, must be paramount to every other. Every one who has watched h conduct, must regard it with no sentiments but those of admiration of the great zeal, have endeavoured to give every moment I could devote to their discharge. With respect to the merits of the measures which I have proposed, or of the measures which I carried into effect, I will not now enter into any dispute; all I wish to observe is, that I have endeavoured, to the best of my power and ability, to exercise such judgment as I possess for the promotion of the best interests of the country, and of the Sovereign whom I serve, and whom I had the honour to advise. Sir, this House having decided at the very commencement of the Session, that it will take measures for controlling the prerogative, and directing the executive authority of the Crown, I can only say, that although that decision may fall with undeserved severity as we think, upon us, I am sure that in all the future consultations of the House, 1 shall be ever ready to give that advice to the House which I think will tend to secure to it the affections of the people of the United Kingdom, and conduce to the welfare and prosperity of the great empire of which this House is the centre and support. I can assure the House that in whatever circumstances I am placed I shall express to it my conscientious convictions of the measures proposed, whether they be the acts of the Minister of the day, or of those who are opposed to them. I shall be always ready to give such an opinion as I think may tend to the permanent improvement of our institutions never, as I observed on another occasion, never defending abuses as if they were in-perseverance, ability, and talent, with stitutions, and on the other hand never being ready to sacrifice institutions as if they were abuses. I have only further to say, with regard to the Members of this House with whom I have conducted public affairs for many years, that while I am grateful to those who have been my supporters, I wish personally to express a hope, with regard to our opponents, that in all our future relations there may be no feeling of personal bitterness between us; and if our resignation tends to the future welfare and prosperity of the country, 1 shall always look with satisfaction to the day on which that event occurred. I now, Sir, move that the House at its rising do adjourn to Monday next. Lord Stanley: The announcement which has just been made by the noble Lord will, I am sure, convince every blember of the House, on whichever side he may sit, of the impropriety of entering now which, not only in the duties of his own department, but in the management of the political business of this House, the noble Lord has uniformly conducted the very arduous and difficult task which was assigned to him. I will go back to make no observations on the statement which the noble Lord has made of the course pursued in Parliament, further than to point out what appeared to me to involve some degree of inaccuracy on the part of the noble Lord when he stated, somewhat unhappily, that in resigning office he was content, having triumphed in the assertion of great principles, to fall in the asseruoa of great principles also. Now, the noble Lord must permit me to say, that having in the course of the last Session of Parliament, received no very unequivocal demonstration that her Majesty's Government as a whole, did not possess the confidence of this House, which the noble Lord justly says, is necessary to enable invited our attention were considerations of any Minister to carry on the business of too great importance to be deliberated the country, the noble Lord and his col- upon incidentally in the House of Comleagues proposed certain measures, into a mons, which, after all, could come to no discussion of which I am not now about to decision upon them, from the form in enter; but the only one of those questions which they were put, and in the absence discussed by the House was negatived. It of any Government possessing the conthus appeared manifest to the noble Lord fidence of the House and the country. and the House, that there were but two Therefore it was thought right on the late alternatives to be adopted by her Majesty's occasion, not to refuse assent to any of Ministers the alternative of the resign- the recommendations which it pleased her ation of their offices, or that of an appeal Majesty to make, but at once to assert to the country with regard to their policy. that they had not that confidence in her No Gentleman, so far as I have heard, on Majesty's present advisers, which should this side of the House, denied that it was justify them in proposing measures of perfectly competent and constitutional for great importance to the consideration of the noble Lord to resort to either of those Parliament. And I must take this opporalternatives. He advised her Majesty to tunity of expressing my regret that the appeal to the people, and the sense of the Speech was so framed as to be liable to a people, which has been echoed by the misconstruction in the eyes of the counHouse of Commons on a late occasion, try, to which I am certain the noble Lord, was pronounced unequivocally and dis of all men, would desire it should not be distinctly against the measures of the subject. I cannot but feel, that the advice Government. But, Sir, when the noble of the Government to Parliament to conLord says, that on the first day of the sider these great questions, coupled with Session, he felt it to be his duty to submit the words in which the Speech was great measures to the decision of the couched, would lead in the public mind House, which had been rejected, I must to an impression perfectly erroneous, and take the liberty of saying to the House, perfectly unconstitutional of course-that and the noble Lord, that this does not those recommendations were the recomconvey an accurate statement of the mat- mendations of the Crown, and not of the ter as it really was; because, neither by Ministers who constitutionally advise the any possible acquiescence could the House Crown. I do not wish, as I said before, haye assented to the individual measures to revive any topics of discussion in the which the noble Lord proposed to intro- present state of the House. I am satisduce, nor by refusing to assent to the fied that the noble Lord having bowed, Address did the House in any way pledge as his constitutional feeling would lead him itself as to the principles which the noble to bow, to the expression of the feeling of Lord said were under discussion. If this House and the country, and paid were to require an illustration of this, I that homage to constitutional principles would only point out, that whereas one which I trust every Minister will always sentence of the Address contained expres- be ready to yield, by resigning office when sions relative to a particular part of the he no longer has the power of carrying budget, it was supported by Gentlemen his measures with credit to himself and who agreed with the measures of the noble satisfaction to the country, from this moLord, and by others who did not agree ment all feeling of excitement between the with them, but desired the adoption of a noble Lord and Gentlemen on this side of principle carrying them much further. It the House will, if it ever existed, entirely was also supported by other Gentlemen, cease. I am confident that towards the like the noble Lord, the Member for Lin- noble Lord personally, no feelings are colnshire (Lord Worsley), who were alto- entertained but those of respect for his gether opposed to those measures, and person, and admiration for his talents; protested that they did not by any means, and I give to him and the noble Lord at in assenting to the Address, assent to the head of the Government, who has for those measures; but what this House said, some time had the delicate and important and what I think the House was justified duty of advising, as the noble Lord says, in saying, was, that under the circum- an inexperienced and youthful Sovereign stances in which the country was placed, I give them both full credit for having the matters to which the Crown had in the course of their Government adopted VOL. LIX. {s} R Lord J. Russell: I am extremely sorry, that any misconstruction has prevailed in any quarter. I thought it was generally understood, that the Speech from the Throne was the speech of Ministers. I am quite ready to say, that I hope no such misconstruction will continue to exist. The speech was the result of the advice of Ministers, and Ministers alone are responsible for it. those measures, and those measures only, I he considered, entirely misrepresented the which they deemed to be for the welfare opinions he had stated on the genera of the country. I give them the credit of question of the Poor-laws. He believing, that ceasing to hold office, they not, however, now enter upon the e will not attempt to disturb those who may as he should find other opportunities be called upon to undertake the business doing so. The noble Lord had also of the country by a factious opposition; cused him of having gone down to You. but that while they steadily maintain in shire in order to raise an Anti-PoorParliament the views which, on political cry against Lord Morpeth. He was matters, they conscientiously entertain ask what right the noble Lord had :out and are bound boldly to express, the any such charge? The noble Lord erad noble Lord and his colleagues, in whose know nothing personally of the farts a hands soever power may be placed, will the case, except from the account of witness with great satisfaction the progress strong partisan, or perhaps from the to of measures which will redound to the lumns of that calumnious press of t welfare of the country and the happiness he seemed so ready to complain whe: a of the people. attacks were directed against himse The noble Lord could not know that 1837, when he (Mr. J. S. Wortley) was engaged in a contest of the same deser tion, proposals were made to him by pa ties feeling strongly with respect to the Poor-laws, that he should make them tat subject of a party cry. Representat 214 were made to him that it would lend force to the exertions of his friends, and was also told by the parties connected w-b the noble Lord, that if he would censent to take up the question, and at once declare himself in favour of the repeal of the law, he might count on the accessive of hundreds who would otherwise not volt for him. His answer was, that he cared PERSONAL EXPLANATION.] Mr. J. S. not what the effect of the course they Wortley said, he should ask the indul-suggested might be, but he would refuse gence of the House for a few moments, while he referred to something that was said by the noble Lord opposite in the late debate, and he hoped the circumstances of the case would be sufficient to justify him. The noble Lord, at the close of a debate of four nights, and at three o'clock in the morning, when the House was in expectation of the important division which im-mitted, that had he given his consent to mediately afterwards took place, had thrown upon him imputations under which he was unwilling to rest. His respect for the Honse had at that time prevented him from interposing in order to offer any explanation. On the next day the noble Lord, for good and sufficient reasons no doubt, did not make his appearance in that House. The present, therefore, was the first opportunity he had been able to take, and the only one he was likely to have, to perform the duty which he conceived was incumbent on him, to set himself right with the House on this point. The noble Lord, in the first place, had, as The question that the House at its rising do adjourn till Monday agreed to. On the question that the consideration of the Lords Commissioners speech be deferred till Monday, to take that course. He said he weald state his opinions on the subject distinc1ly, that he would never undertake to vote for the total repeal of the law, because he considered that there were parts of t which deserved to be maintained. When it was remembered that he was only 400 behind on that occasion, it would be ad the course recommended, he might have then stood in the situation he now occu pied. At the last election similar repre sentations were made to him, and be returned the same answer; therefore the noble Lord had no right to accuse him of having raised the Anti-Poor-law cry, as he said, in order to turn out Lord Morpeth. The hon. Member for Sheffield had said, that by some of his (Mr. Wortley's) supporters cards were thrown among the crowd, with figures of the Bastle upon them. That was, no doubt, one of the jokes of the election; but he might as well accuse the noble Lord or the bon. 486 Gentleman of raising the ery of cheap | new Poor-law, or for opposing any of the bread, with figures of the big loaf and the former Members, but for stating those little loaf. strong opinions against the new Poor-law Mr. Roebuck rose to order. There was at the time of the election; and when the no question before the House. House met, so far was the hon. Member The Speaker: The question is that the from endeavouring to enforce his opinions, Lords Commissioners speech be consi-that he took the first opportunity to place dered on Monday next. persons in power who were the strongest supporters of that law. The hon. Member said in his address, Mr. Wortley was perfectly aware he was not speaking strictly to the question; but he had thrown himself on the indulgence of the House. He had said it was the only opportunity he should have "As to the character of the new Poor-law, my objections remain unchanged, as well as to the Administration of the Commissioners." The hon. Member then went on to pro Mr. Roebuck rose again to order. The hon. Gentleman was referring to a pre-test against relief being given only in ceding debate, and that was contrary to one of the rules of the House. The Speaker said, that rule applied in all cases, but where a Member had a personal complaint to make, it was usual to grant him the indulgence of making it. Mr. Roebuck said, what he objected to was, that the hon. Member having defended himself made attacks upon others. Mr. Wortley had not said anything which could be considered an attack upon the hon. and learned Member for Bath, or any of his Friends. Mr. Roebuck: No, not against me. Mr. Wortley had meant to show, that it was too much to make him responsible for matters of the kind alluded to by the hon, Member for Sheffield, for he might just as well say, the noble Lord opposite was responsible for a placard which covered the walls of every street in the Metropolis on the previous day, announcing that the Queen of England was to consider herself now no other than a State prisoner. If hon. Members were to consider each other responsible for such popular topics of clamour, there was no knowing where it would end. He considered that, the noble Lord might better have refrained from throwing out random imputations against him. Lord J. Russell observed, that in what he had stated the other night, he had taken for his authority not mere random imputations or rumours, but accounts which he had seen of the speeches made by the hon. Member, and especially an address, signed "J. S. Wortley," issued with a view to the West Riding election. [The noble Lord read the first paragraph of the Address, which Mr. Wortley acknowledged.] He had not found fault with the hon. Member for holding opinions against the the work-house, and concluded by saying, undergo much alteration, and I shall always "It appears to me clear, that this law must approach the subject, whether the law is to be altered or repealed, with a deep conviction, that the first principle I should be guided by is, tenderness to the poor." He did not find fault with those opinions, but he said, that any hon. Member who thought a man should not be obliged to accept the workhouse as a condition of relief, who thought it a hardship for a man to be separated from his family, and who thought it was a question whether the law should not be totally repealed, ought not, when he came forward to bring the condition of the country before the House, to have omitted these important matters. The hon. Member said, that some persons had called for cheap bread, and had pointed out the difference between a little loaf and a big loaf. He (Lord J. Russell) hoped that those who had done so, did do so in the belief that an alteration of the Corn-laws would give the poor a large loaf, and they were consistent in their opinions when they proposed an alteration in the Corn-laws; but if the persons who had done this out of doors, were to enter the House and never make mention of the Corn-laws, then he should say that their belief in the advantage of an alteration of those laws was not very sincere. The hon. Gentleman had not convinced him, by his speech on the first night of the Session, that he attached any very great importance to an alteration of the new Poor-law. It would be seen by the subsequent speeches of the hon. Member whether, though he might think the subject one of small concern, he was disposed to vote for an extensive alteration or a total abolition of the present Poor-law. The question agreed to. HOUSE OF LORDS, Monday, September 6, 1841. Scarborough's Indemnity.-Read a second cm 2- [On the meeting of the Parliament tha day, the parties had changed places, the Conservatives occupying the Minister the Whigs the opposition benches.] ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE (Cores oF EQUITY) BILL] On the motion of Leri Cottenham their Lordships went i-s Committee on the Administration of J tice Bill. The several clauses were agreed to without amendment. On the reput being brought up, Lord Brougham said, that the present would be the most convenient time state his objections to parts of this bill. He objected to the appointment of two permanent judges. The Bill contemplated: judges, one permanent and the other f the life of the individual appointed. Now it appeared to him that neither ought to be permanent, and that one appointment for life would afford abundant means of emoving the evil complained of. It was fourteen months since a bill, having an ob OATH OF SUPREMACY.] Sir V. Blake spoke to the following effect :-Sir, I do not expect you will assent to my proposition to repeal the Oath of Supremacy without grave deliberation. That oath was the prop that was invented to sustain the Reformation in its infancy-and surely it cannot be considered as appropriate food to sustain the establishment, now that it has grown up to a position which will entitle it, if purely administered, to endure for ever. This oath, and the distinction between Whig and Tory, emanated from the same circumstance. The struggle between those two great parties of the State, which has lasted for a period of 200 years, may be said to be now suspended, if not terminated for ever. I speak those sentiments from a consideration of the manly and statesman-like pledge that was given within the last two nights, by the right hon. Member for Tamworth, and if he is enabled to carry out the views by him so eloquently expressed, that distinction to which I have alluded will cease. But if he fails in the performance, he will, thereby, keep alive the distinction just in the same way that the Whigs, by neglecting those opportunities which they had to attach the whole empire to them, kept alive their opponents, and now their successors in office. Sir, Iject similar to the present, was sent down by their Lordships to the other House, have the fullest confidence in the sincerity where it was allowed to fall through, and and honour of the right hon. Baronet, but did not pass. He would not then enter I confess that I am doubtful of his power into any of the reasons why it did not; to allay the troubled spirits of some of his but if the occasion for its being sent down followers. It may be, however, prudent were so pressing-if the relief which a for them to recollect, that if he proves his was intended to give were so necessary as sincerity, as I am sure he will, he will not was said, he should have thought that so require the aid of intemperate men to sus-long an interval would not have been tain him in power, while on the other suffered to intervene as between that and hand, they can never exist as a party, the present time. So impressed was he ruling the destinies of this great empire, with that opinion that he brought in a F except in unison with him, and in accord- of his own on the subject, in which a ance with his recently avowed principles. remedy for the evil of arrears in some of Sir, I think that the proper opportunity is the equity courts was provided for. That not yet arrived to obtain a calm con- bill, however, was not allowed to pass sideration of the merits of my intended Parts of the present Bill he fully approved bill for the abolition of this Oath of Su-of-but he repeated that he strongly obe premacy, and, therefore, with the permis-jected to the appointment of two new equity sion of the House, I beg leave to withdraw judges. He should, therefore propose, that my notice for the present, as the whole in the 19th clause, instead of the word object of my presenting it has already"two" there should be inserted the words been accomplished. Motion withdrawn. "an additional judge," and such other changes in the phraseology as this first House adjourned to the ensuing Mon- would render necessary, and in the end of the clause, the words" such additional judge." day. Lord Cottenham hoped their Lordships would not limit the relief proposed to be |