to her Majesty respecting the prorogation of Parliament. William Seale, are also to the petition, although these three persons were at the time, and still are, confined in Stafford gaol on charges of felony. "It is evident that but few of the signatures are the hand-writing of the persons whom they are intended to represent, and we find that people have gone from house to house obtaining namesof whole families, without regard to age, and having entered these names in a book, have added them afterwards to the petition, though, at the time, the names were taken, no petition was produced, and the names thus taken would be given by one member only of a family, and that not unfrequently a child.” This was the mode in which many of the signatures had been obtained, but as he had said before, he had not thought it formed sufficient grounds for withholding the peti tion. Mr. Ward expressed his regret that the hon. Baronet had not resorted to a public inquiry. The report could at best be considered merely as a one-sided report. Sir James Graham: It is the report of the mayor of the town. Sir R. Peel moved that the House do now adjourn. FINANCE. Mr. F. T. Baring, as he might not have another opportunity, wished now to advert to a statement, which he perceived through those channels of information to which all had access, had been made in another place, bearing upon his own conduct while he had the honour to hold that office now filled by the right hon. Member for the University of Cambridge. The statement to which he alluded had been made on an authority entitled to respect, not only from himself, but from every one, and he should be glad to hear the view taken of the subject by the right hon. Gentleman. It was said, that besides the deficiency of 2,500,000l. for the present year, which he had stated to the House while the budget was under discussion, there was a large additional deficiency, of which he had neglected to take any notice. He was not in the habit of making statements, either privately or publicly, by which he was not willing to abide. The right hon. Gentleman opposite had likewise brought forward a budget, and the right hon. Gentleman had followed the statements which he had found it his duty to make, and had adopted his figures without making the slightest allusion to any deficiency beyond what he had stated. He did not like to use harsh language, but he must say, if he had deceived the public by making false statements of the sums required for the public service, he was utterly unworthy of the confidence which the House had placed in him, and of the situation which the goodness of her Majesty had confided to him. He should be glad, therefore, to learn from the right hon. Sir J. Graham: I do not recollect the Gentleman opposite whether this large exaet number-somewhere about two thou-deficiency existed, as they were given to sand; but the hon. Member will, of course, make some abatement after the statement I have read. Mr. Ward: The mayor of a town is not always an impartial authority. Mr. Wakley: I hope that the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government will now admit some doubt as to the surpassing purity of Tamworth. Sir R. Peel: Quite the reverse. If strangers come to Tamworth and endeavour to contaminate the electors, that is no reason why I should doubt the purity of the latter. Surely the hon. Member would not class the prisoners in Stafford gaol amongst the electors of Tamworth. Mr. W. Williams wished to ask the right hon. the Secretary for the Home Department, how many signatures were attached to the Tamworth memorial ? Subject at an end. understand? He wished also to know if deficiency concealed by the former Chan- | he had put upon it a different interpretacellor of the Exchequer, the right hon. tion from that which had been imagined Gentleman must have well known of these by the right hon. Gentleman. He had inaccuracies, whatever they were, yet had not once alluded to any such circumstances. Now, he used no harsh language-he well knew how improper it was; he perfectly well knew also how utterly insignificant he was in comparison with the illustrious individual to whom he was referring; his only anxiety was to defend himself, and without using a single expression inconsistent with the high respect he had for the distinguished authority on which the statement he alluded to had been made. He did think he had a right to call upon the right hon. Gentleman for an explanation. He would further state this, that as to the estimates for the succeeding years (though it was well known how difficult such estimates must necessarily be), which he had stated at 50,000,000%., with the exception of one item, as to China, which it was clear had only been in the nature of a vote on account, seeing how very probable it was that circumstances might arise creating a necessity for a larger expense than was estimated-taking into consideration treaties effected by his noble Friend, which it was fair, in his opinion, to presume would afford opportunities for further reduction of expenses-he did think, upon the whole, that, so far as the calculation could have been made at the period of his quitting office, he had not been far out in estimating the permanent expenditure at 50,000,000. He thought the House would agree with him, at all events, that he could have hardly done less than bring the statement he had mentioned before them in the manner he had done. not understood the statement to be of a deficiency over and above the estimate for this year, which the right hon. Gentleman had stated at 2,500,0001.; and if the right hon. Gentleman would look more closely at it, he would see that even in the reported statement the individual making it had brought it forward as a reason for not, at the present period, being impelled to a full development of financial schemes, as to the manner in which the wants of the country were hereafter to be met; because (stating reasons against such precipitation) that individual had seen, in addition to the existing deficiency of with. There were other great expenses 2,500,000l., difficulties enough to grapple connected with the colonies (that he had peculiarly noticed), which it would be necessary shortly to provide for. Now, if the right hon. Gentleman had been in the House when the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government made a reply to the noble Lord opposite on a recent occasion, he would have heard stated those very facts, connected with additional expenditure to be apprehended, to which it must be evident that the expression in the reported statement referred. The right hon. Gentleman would have heard that there was a prospect of greater expenditure in several colonies and in China, for which provision would have to be made; and the argument founded upon those statements was natural enough, that to provide for such apprehended additions to The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, our expenditure full time for consideration it was one of the inconveniences of ad- ought to be allowed the Government. verting to statements made elsewhere that This was as it appeared to him (Mr. the House could never be very accurately Goulburn), the real sense of the statement, informed of the precise words alluded to, not that the right hon. Gentleman had and it was a still greater inconvenience concealed any deficiency of which he was that, as in the present case, the person of aware at the time he made his estimate, whom the explanation was asked had but that before anything like a permanent often no opportunity of conferring with arrangement could be made upon financial the individual whose language was referred matters, not only the existing deficiency to. For, as he had told the right hon. must be supplied, but those expenses proGentleman, he had not even seen the vided for which must be anticipated from printed statement to which he had ad- various quarters of the globe. This was verted, until it had been shown to him by all the explanation he could give-the the right hon. Gentleman that evening; bona fide sense which he attached to the and, having since been waiting in the ex- statement referred to-and a sense in pectation of the matter being mentioned, which he did not think even the right he had not been able to see the distin-hon. Gentleman would be able to dispute guished individual referred to. But on it. reading the statement he confessed that Mr. Baring said, he was quite satisfied with the explanation, which, as he under- | estimate had hitherto been made) the prostood it was, that the statement referred bable extent of the liabilities to be foreseen only to expenses anticipated-not incurred by this country being accounted at not less -but which were necessary to be taken than 500,000Z. on this head. To New into the calculations incident to a general Zealand he had also referred and the liabilifinancial arrangement. Now, although, ties incurred there for bills actually drawn. as was well known, he differed from the Then he had mentioned (though some ridiright hon. Gentleman opposite as to the cule had been cast upon it) the expense of conclusion to be deduced, he should not the establishment which it appeared had have deemed it necessary, had he under- been contemplated on the small island in stood the statement in that sense, to have Canton river; such were some of the excome up to the House (at considerablein - penses (amounting, as they could not but convenience) for the purpose of asking ex-do, to considerable sums) to which he was planation. persuaded his noble Friend in the upper House had referred, rather than to any inaccuracy on the part of the right hon. Gentleman. Now, in this sense, he must say, that he believed no doubt could be entertained of the truth of this statement, and that it must not be assumed that the expenditure of the present year was necessarily the measure of that of future years; and that the expenses connected with the colonies-as they must be provided for somehow (though he trusted they would be borne by the colonies)— should not be left out of view in calculating our future engagements. Sir R. Peel said, unfortunately there had been a discussion upon that very subject in that House when the right hon. Gentleman was not present; and although he had not had the opportunity of examining the precise terms of the reported statement, he thought it would not be doubted that his noble Friend (it was idle to affect ignorance of who was intended) had the same impression in making that statement as he (Sir R. Peel) had given expression to in the discussion of which he was speaking. In the observations which he had then made in the presence of the noble Lord lately at the head of the Viscount Palmerston said, when the Colonial Department, he had not at all statement alluded to had been pointed impeached the accuracy of the right hon. out to him, his impression had been cerGentleman's estimates for the present tainly the same with that expressed by his year; on the contrary, his right hon. right hon. Friend; however, au explanaFriend the Chancellor of the Exchequer tion had been made, which, coupled with. had adopted those estimates, and had the correct representation given by the said, that though there had been circum right hon. Baronet of the discussion the stances which might have accounted for other night, was satisfactory. As this was any errors, yet upon the whole, he believed the last opportunity he might have he the calculations of the right hon. Gentle- would avail himself of it, not to renew man opposite as to the probable deficit, former discussions-the Government had might be assumed to be correct. When taken their time as to the prorogation and he (Sir R. Peel) had spoken on the former the postponing of all announcements of occasion he had reason to apprehend con- intention as to important measures; he siderable expenses not falling within the would not attempt to revive those discusestimate of what was to be provided for in sions, but he did hope the Government the present year-not at all impugning would feel that the questions he alluded the accuracy of the right hon. Gentleman's to were of such a nature that they must calculations, yet considerable expenses be prepared to come to a decision upon which must be calculated in attempting them; and that it was not to be supposed an estimate for future years. He had that "the chapter of accidents" would particularly referred to the state of New lead to such a change of circumstances as South Wales, quoting a despatch (to to dispense with the necessity for coming which certainly, the right hon. Gentle- to such a decision; and, above all, he man had not referred, nor had opportunity begged of them, to bear in mind that no of referring) showing that engagements circumstances could reasonably be apprehad been entered into by the governor en-hended which could dispense with the obtailing an expense of 900,000l., which must be borne either by the colonial or imperial Government, (and of which no ligation on the part of the Government to prove and to declare to Parliament their determination on that great question-the Sir R. Peel said, he would not enter into the discussion (which the noble Lord while professing to deprecate, seemed disposed to invite) regarding the Corn-laws, or our commercial policy; as to these questions, the determination which he had frequently stated was unshaken, and it was not to be expected that on the eve of a prorogation he should deviate from his resolution of abstinence from premature disclosures. And as to what the noble Lord had kindly dropped in the way of advice, he could assure the noble Lord that the result of his experience of former Governments was, that he entertained a very deep dislike and distrust of any dependence on the "chapter of accidents." House adjourned. A man Corn-laws, and on our whole commercial | ing of the most attentive consideration. He policy. He would entreat them to con- now called their Lordships' attention to it, sider this, persuaded as he was that the with the view of inducing them, during the public would never be contented with the recess, to apply their minds to the question, proposition to Parliament of some petty and in the hope that they might be led to change in the "pivot," or some slight support a proposition which would be made alteration of the "sliding scale ;" and that to them either by him, if he were spared, or even supposing the existing distress to sub- by some one else, to enter into an inquiry side, the country would not be satisfied on the subject. He wished the feeling with any measure short of one which would were strong and universal of the moral substantially, bona fide, permit the intro- guilt involved in bribery. He wished it duction of foreign corn at a moderate fixed was everywhere felt that a man taking duty. a bribe was morally guilty of perjury, as completely as a man having planned and resolved to commit a murder, morally incurred the guilt of blood, though by accident blood might not be shed. taking a bribe was morally guilty of perjury, because he was ready to take the bribery oath. He held candidates and their bribery oath. friends to be persons chiefly guilty. When man was about to contest a place, his first question-at least, the first after asking whether he were likely to succeed-was "How much will it cost?" If he were answered three or four hundred pounds, it was all very well, because the lawful cost might amount to so much. But if he were informed that it would take three or four thousand pounds, and went to the contest on such terms, he was morally guilty of the bribery that ensued, because he must know that since Lord Grey's Reform Bill, the legal expenses could not be more than the smaller sum, and that the larger one could only be required for bribery. Since the Bill, then, and in consequence of it, no candidate could pretend ignorance of the bribery his money went to support. It was lamentable to think, that bribery and intimidation had been more rife of late than in former times, though there were brilliant exceptions. He knew of one case in which a person lost his election by a single vote, and refused to be a party to BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS.] Lord undue means of bringing back the voter who Brougham presented a petition to which determined it, and who had been drawn he begged to call the particular attention of over by his adversaries. He preferred to their Lordships, from a respectable mem- lose his seat, which he did lose, to being a ber of the Society of Friends, Edwin Swan party to such a proceeding. Another inRickman, complaining of the dreadful ex- stance was that of his noble Friend, the son citement, intimidation, and corruption which of the author of the Reform Bill. Lord he had witnessed at the late election for Howick was engaged in two contested the place of his residence, and states, that elections, and on both occasions took effecin many of the places in the three king-tual means for preventing unlawful interdoms, where he had since been, the same ference. He had come forward and said, scenes were said, by all he saw, to have he would neither allow his influence to be been exhibited; and praying for the preven-used, nor thank any friend of his who tion of canvassing. Whatever he might should use that influence; and he also think of the remedy, he (Lord Brougham) freed all those over whom he or his family thought the subject of the petition deserv. had any influence from all obligation to HOUSE OF LORDS, Thursday, October 7, 1841. MINUTES.] Bills. Received the Royal Assent:-Exchequer Bills Funding; Exchequer Bills Appropriation; Poor-law Comisssion; Population Payments. Petitions presented. By Lord Brougham, from British and lating to Coinage; and from J. Quail, M. D., for Remu neration for Services. some re Petition to be laid on the Table of the House. vote for him. Such conduct was most | He would close his observations on this honourable; but it was also most fitting, subject by giving another instance of a and most worthy of that distinguished refusal on the part of a candidate unduly family, and the Great Statesman at its to influence constituents. It was recorded head; for what could be more appropriate, in the history of the Court of George 3rd, than that they who had been the first to that a noble person, being a candidate for make the possession of the elective franchise the borough of Windsor, at a very early extensive, should also be the most strenuous period of his life, refused to allow the Court to keep the exercise of it pure? He tradesmen to be spoken to by any of the knew others, some filling and adorning officers of the household, and thus risked the highest ranks in that House, who re- the loss of their votes. A complaint having garded bribery with such abhorrence, that been made to the King upon the subject by they refused to contribute anything to what one of those over-zealous and officious perwere called election funds, because they sons who are always to be found at Court could not feel secure that their money as elsewhere, his Majesty sent for that would not be spent in bribing the electors; noble person and said to him, "You did and yet these noble persons were as zealous quite right; it was much better that in devotion to their principles, as anxious to you should lose a few votes, than that further the progress of those principles, by my tradesmen should be influenced by the promoting the election of men, agreeing officers of my household." The case he rewith them in opinion, and were as gene- ferred to, derived an additional interest rous, as munificent in the disposal of their from considering who the noble candidate money for all lawful purposes, as any indi- was. That candidate was the brother of viduals in or out of that House. With his noble Friend opposite (the Duke of gard to intimidation at elections, he should Wellington), then Lord Mornington, now observe that in his opinion it was all but as Marquess Wellesley; and such was the bad as bribery. He held, that any person auspicious dawn of a public life which whatever, whether priest, peer, or prince, had since shone forth with so surpassing a or the coadjutor of a priest, the agent of a lustre. peer, or the servant of a prince, who interfered to prevent a man from the free exercise of the franchise, by threats, forced that voter's conscience, and did a criminal act. He said so, because the law declared that elections should be free; and also commanded every one so to use his own property, as not to injure his neighbour. In his belief, it was an offence by the laws of England to threaten a voter either with a loss of his tenement, or any other loss, if he did not vote in a particular way; and if in the opinion of any one it was not an offence indictable by the law, as it now stood, he hoped that another Session would not pass without its being made indictable. But until he heard the contrary from the judges of the land, he should continue to hold it an offence punishable, either for a priest to threaten a voter with a refusal of the rites of religion, or for a landlord to threaten a voter with the loss of his tenement, or for a Court-lord to threaten a voter with the loss of Court custom. There could be no doubt, that a public officer who so acted, was guilty of an offence for which he was impeachable; but he had yet to learn, that in any one it was not indictable; and he did not expect to learn this, either from the first civil, nor certainly from the declared intentions of her Mathe first criminal judge in the country. jesty, her Majesty has taken the reVOL. LIX. {Series} Third PROROGATION OF PARLIAMENT.] The Commissioners for proroguing Parliament namely, the Lord Chancellor, the Duke of Wellington, the Duke of Buckingham, the Earl of Shaftesbury, and Lord Wharncliffe, having taken their seats, and The Speaker, with several Members, having appeared at the bar, the commission for giving the royal assent to several bills was read, and the royal assent was given with the usual formalities. The Lord Chancellor read the speech as follows : 66 My Lords and Gentlemen, "We are commanded by her Majesty to acquaint you that it appears advisable to her Majesty to bring to a close the present Session of Parliament. "In conformity with the advice of her Parliament, and in pursuance of 2 P |