paltry, was mean, was contemptible, was, the law of settlement had been altered in disgraceful. And whatever might be his England: it was practically created in opinions, his position, or his conduct, he Ireland by the amendments of the Duke trusted that no man, in the position of a of Wellington. On these grounds he felt Minister, would ever have reason to com- called on to vote against the continuance plain of a factious opposition from him. of the commission. He thanked the House for having afforded him this opportunity of vindicating his conduct, which had been exceedingly misrepresented. Mr. Callaghan said, he felt himself in a peculiar position, seeing that in the late Parliament, upon the passing of the Irish act, he had been in perfect ignorance as to the administration of the Poor-law. He had, therefore, given his consent to the institution of a commission, without at all anticipating the evils which had since resulted from it. He would read an extract from a petition which had been presented from his constituents, and which should be his justification of the vote which he meant to give on this occasion. This petition was signed by the mayor and many of the respectable inhabitants of Cork. In the part of it to which he referred, it was said, "Your petitioners beg, further, respectfully to remonstrate against the power given to the Poor-law commissioners-a power exercised without any consultation with the guardians, and in a way detrimental to the interests of each union; and your petitioners do think, that when it is considered that these officers are largely paid, and that the guardians are the real practical administrators of the law without payment, it would be found advisable to allow the influence of the said guardians a more extensive scope, while that of those overpaid officers might be judiciously curtailed." When he found these the universal sentiments of those whom he represented, he felt warranted in changing the opinion he once held, that this commission might be found beneficial. He thought he was called on to announce this opinion, because he saw it had been stated in that House that the Poor-law bill worked well in Ireland. He could only aver that in his part of the country the discontent with it was almost universal. Nobody appeared to be satisfied with it. The petition, an extract from which he had just read, distinctly stated in what respects The emigration was inefficacious. clauses were quite useless; and the Duke of Wellington's amendments introduced he greatest possible confusion into the meetings of the guardians. The whole of it Mr. S. Crawford wished to explain for a moment in reference to what had been said the other night by the right hon. Baronet the Home Secretary, as to his constituency of Rochdale not having been brought under the Poor-law, that they were under the greatest dread lest the local act, under which they were at present, should be set aside, and lest they should be brought under the New Poorlaw. He might be permitted to add, he was pleased to find the Government bent upon inquiring carefully into the condition of the poor, and he hoped sincerely that during the recess the subject would not be lost sight of by the Home Secretary. Mr. Hardy wished to explain what might appear an inconsistency at first sight in his having voted for the motion of the hon. Member for Rochdale, and his now voting, as he felt bound to do, against the hon. Member for Oldham. The reason was, that the former motion did not, and the present did, involve the total abolition of the commission, to which he was not prepared at present to agree. He considered that in now voting for the bill he was merely voting for the continuance of the act till (as he understood the Home Secretary to pledge himself) the provisions of the act could be fully considered. The House divided on the question that the word "now" stand part of the question-Ayes 133; Noes 18: Majority 115. List of the AYES. A'Court, Captain Acton, Colonel Adderley, C. B. Antrobus, E. Arbuthnott, hon. H. Baird, W. Baring, hon. W. B. Baskerville, T. B. M. Beckett, W. Bentinck, Lord G. Bodkin, W. H. Borthwick, P. Boscawen, Lord Botfield, B. Bowring, Dr. Broadley, H. Brooke, Sir A. B. Browne, hon. W. Bruce, Lord E. HOUSE OF LORDS, March, Earl of Marsham, Viscount Martin, J. Martin, C. W. Martyn, C. C. Masterman, J. Philips, M. Polhill, F. Pollock, Sir F. Rae, rt. hon. Sir W. Rose, rt. hon. Sir G. Shaw, rt. hon. F. Smith, A. Smythe, hon. G. Ward, H. G. Wood, TELLERS. Clerk, Sir G. Saturday, October 2, 1841. MINUTES.] Bills. Read a first time :-Exchequer Bills Fuuding; Exchequer Bills Appropriation.-Read a second time:-Poor-law Commission; Population Payments. CORN-LAWS.] The Earl of Radnor wished to give an explanation of a statement he had made last night, respecting the average price of foreign corn. In stating the average at 40s. 6d., he had omitted to mention the expense of freight, which would be about 5s. per quarter, and should have been added to the average. Subject at an end. Adjourned. 1222 HOUSE OF COMMONS, Saturday, October 2, 1841. MINUTES.] Bills. Read a third time:-Exchequer Bills Funding; Exchequer Bills Appropriation. Petitions presented. By Mr. Sharman Crawford, from Ballymoney, for placing the retail spirit trade of Ireland on the same footing as that in England On EXCHEQUER BILL FUNDING.] the motion for the third reading of this bill, Mr. Williams begged to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether or no the whole amount of 5,000,000l. had been subscribed for, and, if not, what portion had been subscribed for-how much in Exchequer Bills, and how much in money? The Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated the other evening, that the amount subscribed for altogether was 3,644,000l. What were the proportions of money and Exchequer Bills he was not able to say, but the hon. Gentleman would see that the information, if he could give it, would be of no use, because the parties were at liberty in completing their subscriptious to make up part in money, or the whole in Exchequer Bills, as they might find convenient. He might say, that a large proportion had been subscribed for in Exchequer Bills, but it did not follow that, at the conclusion of the settlement, money might not be given instead of them. Mr. Williams said, that if the whole amount of 3,500,000l. should be settled for in Exchequer Bills, it would follow that the right hon. Gentleman would fund 1,000,000l. more than he originally contemplated. He would therefore be obliged to have recourse to the second portion of gross violation of prison discipline. He the bill, to raise the 2,400,000l. deficient thought it belonged to the province of in the revenue, by the mode of the commissioners for the reduction of the national debt inscribing their names in the three per cents. with a view of sale afterwards; at least so he understood it. He considered that, by the terms of the bill, it was imperative to accept the subscriptions of Exchequer Bills to the amount already subscribed. By that operation, the right hon. Gentleman would add to the funded debt more than was actually necessary to relieve the Exchequer Bill market according to his view. Looking at the present state of the money market, he did not see any necessity whatever of reducing the amount of Exchequer Bills, when he considered there was a saving of interest on Exchequer Bills, as compared with the funded debt. The last return he had seen stated, that the highest amount of interest on Exchequer Bills was 2d. per day. [The Chancellor of the Exchequer: It is 24d. now.] He had seen no return of that kind. Such being the case, there was no difference. the Secretary for the Home Department, to see such abuses corrected. He thought the report, and the cases in question, deserved the best attention of the right hon. Gentleman, and he would be glad to receive some assurance that the subject would not be overlooked. Sir James Graham was glad to have an opportunity of stating, that he was aware the last report of the Inspector of Prisons, did contain matters worthy of the most serious attention of the Executive Government. He had not yet had time to give to it that attention which the importance of the subject imperatively demanded, but it had not been altogether overlooked. He had issued instructions to the Inspectors of Prison Discipline, to add to their reports an appendix, dividing the subject matter into two heads; first, matter to which the attention of the Executive Government should be directed, as being immediately subject to the control of the Secretary of State; and, secondly, such farther matter as, in the opinion of the Inspector, might, in a future Session, require the attention of Parliament. As soon as he received such a report, he would turn his attention more particularly to the subject; and, with regard to the last report, he partook in the views of the hon. Gentleman opposite, as to the necessity of his attention being directed to it. Adjourned. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that such being the case, the interest on Exchequer Bills was greater than the interest in the funds, and the public would gain the difference of some shillings in the rate of interest. With regard to the bill, it gave to the Lords of the Treasury the power of making up the sum necessary at the completion of the subscription by the issue of Exchequer Bills, or the sale of stock in the market. The hon. Gentleman would not wish him to state which course the Government intended to take, as it might produce an influence on the market, which the hon. Gentleman must feel, would not be desirable. The Government had the power to do whatever might Petitions presented. By the Earl of Radnor, from Handseem to them at the time most advantageous for the public interests. Bill read a third time. HOUSE OF LORDS, Monday, October 4, 1841. MINUTES.] Bills. Read a second time:-Exchequer Bills Funding; Exchequer Bills Appropriation :-Read a third time:-Expiring Laws. loom Weavers of Manchester and vicinity, praying for relief.-By Lord Brougham, from Dunstable and Dublin, for the Repeal of the Corn-laws.-By the Earl of Radnor, from Stockport, for Free-trade.-By Lord Clifford, of Chudleigh, from Mr. Peter Gordon, complaining of Oppression in India.-By the Marquess of Normanby, from Performers of the Surrey Theatre, for the abolition of Bridge Tolls. RECENT NAVAL PROMOTIONS.] The Earl of Minto begged the indulgence of their Lordships for a few moments while he called their attention to a subject which he felt to be one of importance, as relating to one great branch of the public service, and also important to the character for fairness and impartiality of the late 2 N was Board of Admiralty. His attention had hadbeen, he admitted, lately an unusual been caught by a notice of motion which amount of promotion. With respect to stood on the votes of the other House of those of the first kind it was usual to keep Parliament for Friday last. The motion a certain number of vacancies in reserve, For a return of all the commissions and the promotions, in consequence of the (with the names attached) signed by the operations in Syria, had led to a larger Board of Admiralty since the 4th of June reserve than usual, so that there had been last, up to the issuing the patent of the a short time ago a greater accumulation present Board of Admiralty, distinguishing of vacancies to be filled up than at any those commissions signed since the 30th time since he came into office. The House day of August." Also, a "Return of the would probably not allow him, if he felt ships put in commission during the same disposed, to go minutely into the promoperiod, making a like distinction, and of tions which had been lately made to some the probable date of each ship being ready of these vacancies, because it would be a for service." Those returns he would say bad precedent to subject (particularly were unnecessary, as the whole of the appointments) to minute criticism in Parinformation thus sought was already before liament. He could only say, that, with the public in another shape. The returns, respect to the first class of promotions, though not tending to add to the informa- for the amount of which he was not respontion already before the country, were, sible, he would court inquiry into its however, calculated to give countenance distribution, into the character of those to certain charges which had gone forth to officers who had been promoted, and he the public against the late Board of Ad- was confident that such inquiry would miralty, as to their mode of distributing show that those promotions had been well navy patronage. Now, there was no sub- and impartially bestowed. In the third ject connected with the administration of class there had been several promotions. naval affairs which he should more desire There had been twenty-five mates proan examination of, than the question of moted to the rank of lieutenants, and of patronage. If any favour were shown, he these none had been less than nine years thought that it ought to be exercised spar- in the service, while of sixteen, the junior ingly, and in such a manner as to show had not served for less than twelve years. that no disparagement was meant to the He was anxious to call the attention of meritorious services of others. He would their Lordships to these facts, as they admit, that large promotions had taken served to refute the charge so often made, place in the navy of a recent date, and he that young men were promoted by the would explain how that occurred. He Admiralty, to the exclusion of older and would premise that promotions were made more experienced officers. He was sure, in three ways. First, in the ordinary for the reasons he had stated, that their course, when three vacancies took place Lordships would not require him to enter by death in a particular rank, the promo- into a detail of the circumstances of each tion of one officer to that rank took place of those twenty-five promotions; but with as of course, and this was the usual and respect to some of the special promotions, common way of promotion. Secondly, he did think it necessary to go somewhat flag-officers appointed to vacancies on the into detail. There were four officers prostations under their command, and might moted from the rank of commander to that make certain appointments on hauling of captain, under special circumstances. down their flags. The third way was by a The first of these was Commander Crozier, special minute of the Board in considera- of the Terror, who had the command of one tion of circumstances which, in the judg-of the two ships engaged in the expedition ment of the Board, required such an expression of its approbation of the conduct of the officer. With respect to the amount of promotions in the first way, he was not responsible for it, but for the distribution only. With regard to the second, he was not responsible at all; but with regard to the third, he held himself entirely responsible both for the amount of promotion and the manner of bestowing it. There to the Arctic Pole, under Captain James Ross. Their Lordships were aware of the success which had attended that expedition. On the return of Captain Ross he laid before the Admiralty Board an account of the voyage and its results, and, after stating how much he was indebted to the officers and men under his command, took the opportunity of most strongly and earnestly recommending Captain Crozier 1093 Financial Measures {Ocr. 4} Late and Pres. Administrations. 1094 general politics. The next was Lieutenant Bird, who was the first lieutenant of the Erebus, as he had mentioned before. Lieu Syrian promotions; Lieutenant Sherningham, one of the ablest surveying officers in the service; Lieutenant Fanshawe, who was recommended by Sir R. Stopford, were also made commanders. Again, Lieutenant Lowe was the nephew of Sir Thomas Hastings, an officer to whom he considered the country so much indebted for his valuable services, that he (Earl Minto) felt it but justice to him before he retired from the Admiralty to leave on record a minute, mentioning his great zeal and ability in improving the practice of naval gunnery, by which that arm of the service had been rendered incalculably more efficient, and as a mark of the services of Sir Thomas Hastings, his nephew, Lieutenant Lowe, was promoted to the rank of commander, and Mr. Moorman, the senior gunnery mate, to the rank of lieutenant. In conclusion, the noble Earl observed, that there had always existed an impression, a very erroneous one, that and his first lieutenant of the Erebus, for promotion, with which recommendation the Admiralty complied. The next of the four officers promoted to the rank of cap-tenant Lloyd, who was omitted in the tain, was one in whom he could not say he did not feel a deep interest-he was Commander C. Elliot, of the Hazard, who had been employed on the coast of Syria, and for his conduct there had been most strongly recommended for promotion. The promotion did not then take place, because he had not then served out his full time; but he was sure that had that time not expired until now, the noble Lord now at the head of the Admiralty, would not have passed over the recommendation. The third officer promoted to the rank of captain was Commander Granville, who was recommended for promotion by Sir C. Adam on his being appointed to the command of a foreign station. It had been the practice at the Admiralty that any member of the Board who accepted a command on a home or foreign station, was allowed to recommend an officer of each rank. The practice had had the sanction of Lord Melville, Sir George Cockburn, and Sir James Graham. Un-political influence had more weight at the der such circumstances Commander Granville had been promoted, on the recommendation of Sir C. Adam. The fourth officer promoted was Commander John Parker, and he owed his promotion to a rule in the service as the senior commander on active service. He next came to the cases of the nine lieutenants who had been promoted to the rank of commander. The first of these was Lieutenant Scot, who had served with great distinction in the Turkish fleet under Admiral Walker, and who had been most particularly recommended by the Turkish Government to her Majesty for some mark of her approbation. Now, it certainly was very unusual to promote officers at the recommendation of foreign Governments, with whose forces they had served, and he (Lord Minto) had at first felt great doubts of the propriety of acceding to the request; but when he took into consideration the great services rendered on the coast of Syria by Lieutenant Scot, and that those services were rendered to a Government with which England was in close alliance, he did come to the conclusion that the promotion ought to take place. He would add, that Commander Scot was a member of a family strongly opposed to his Lord Minto's) in local as well as Admiralty than it ought to have; and, in fact, than it ever had had. For his own part, he would confidently appeal to the appointments which had recently, and, be might add, for many years, been made by the Admiralty, for full proof that the impression to which he alluded was altogether erroneous. Subject at an end. FINANCIAL MEASURES-LATE AND PRESENT ADMINISTRATIONS] On the motion that the Exchequer-Bills (Funding) Bill be read a second time. Viscount Melbourne said, he did not rise to offer any objection to this bill, or to the mode proposed for carrying its provisions into effect; for it appeared to him, that as soon as it was known that the Government had come to the determination that they would not, for the present, consider the financial state of the country-that they would not enter into any inquiry into its financial difficulties-that they would not adopt any of those measures which had been proposed by the late Government, or bring forward any measures with similar objects of their own - as soon, he repeated, as those determinations of the Government became known, it was impossible but that some such measure as |