particularly upon the danger of the diverfion of the new finking fund in time of war by Mr. Pitt's bill then before the Houfe. He ftated, that 4,000,ocol. of free revenue (to which the finking fund was finally to accumulate) if applied by a Minister to the intereft of new loans, would enable a Minifler to obtain 80,000,000l. by way of loan, in order perhaps to apply thofe 80,oco,ocol. to the most abfurd, or to the maft profligate and the wort of purposes; and that the only way to prevent future Minifters and future Parliaments from di verting this new finking fund was, to inftitute a bargain, and folemnly to pledge the public faith.

Earl Stanhope next fpoke of the new clapfe introduced into Mr. Pitt's bill in the Houfe of Commons on the motion of Mr. Fox: upon the whole, he much approved of that claufe though it was certainly liable to fome objections. The faving of the bonus upon a confiderable loan was no inmaterial advantage; but the principle advantage of that new claufe was, that by diminishing the quantity of money really to be borrowed, it made the Minifter fo much more mafter of the bas gain; and that claufe was not liable to the objections which would attach upon any diverfion of the new finking fund; infomuch, as that claufe was fo contrived as not to break in upon the admirable operations of compound intereft.

His Lordship then alluded to the fpeech of Mr. Pitt, in the House of Commons, in which Mr. Pitt had ftated, that it was a recommendation of Mr. Fox's claufe," that it

tended to diminish the temptation to divert the new finking fund." Earl Stanhope faid, that any man who could use fuch an argument, abfolutely abandoned the defence of the new finking-fund bill. What, diminith the temptation to do that which is ftated to be impoffible! It was admitting, that by the new finking fund hill, there was a temptation to divert the furplus: it was admitting that there was a temptation (though a diminished temptation) to divert it; and that by Mr. Pitt's plan, the diverfion of the new finking fund was poffible. Earl Stanhope then ftated, that in order to avoid the evils which muft follow from a diverfion of the new Linking fund, he had drawn up a plan for that purpose-That he fhould fay nothing about that plan, because he had already fubmitted it to the judgement of the Public: but that if ivinifters (alluding to a fpeech of Mr. Pitt in the House of Commons) were of opinion, that that plan of his, was either nugatory, or (when compared with the plan of the Minifter) uneconomical; that, if that were the opinion of Minifters, they would do well to maintain that opinion in that Houfe, where they fhould find a perfon prepared to give them a complete anfwer. That if thofe were the weak and fhallow grounds upen which that plan of his had been VOL. XX. rejected,

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rejected, it only proved, that Minifters had rejected that plan, because they did not understand it. He challenged Minifters to enter into the difcuffion of that plan in that House. He knew that he ftood upon fuch good, and upon fuch ftrong ground, that he would venture, with confidence, to throw down the gauntlet upon that subject; and he called upon Minifters (either on that, or on any future day) to dare to take it up. His Lordfhip then ftated, that he had a new plan, found.d on the fame general principles on which his other plan was founded, but extremely varied as to the mode of application. He then flated to the House the faid new plan which was as follows:

Fropofal of Earl Stanhope for rendering the Reduction of the National Debt permanent.

Whereas, in order to eftablish a permanent plan for the reduction of the national debt, and to make a lafting provi fion for the maintenance of the Public credit, it is effential that the monies to be fet apart for the redemption of redeemable Public annuities, be invariably and unalienably applied for that purpofe.

And whereas effectually to insure the reduction of the national debt, in time of war as well as in time of peace, it is effential that the Public faith be fully pledged by a compact being made between the ftate and the creditors of the Public: and that it be an exprefs condition of that compact that given fums of money to be fet apart for the gradual redemp tion of the national debt, be applied towards fuch a redemption, by a fixed courfe of payment, and to no other purpose whatever.

And whereas the Public have the undoubted right to redeem the redeemable Public annuities in fuch order and courfe of payment as they fhall deem the most expedient.

And whereas it would be highly advantageous to holders of flock below par to acquire a right of priority of redemp tion; inasmuch as the repeated application of large fums of public money to redeem any particular ftock which is below par, would (cæteris paribus) raife the value of such stock in the market higher than any other stock bearing the like inte‐ reft.

And whereas it would confequently be much for the inte reft of holders of stock bearing intereft at three pounds per centum per annum, to give up to the Public a part of their prefent capital in order to obtain from the Public the faid right of priority of redemption.

It might therefore be enacted, that books be opened at the Bank, in order to receive the names of fuch holders of ftock

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bearing

qearing three per cent. intereft, as fhould be willing to fig nify their confent to accept of ninety pounds for every hundred pounds of their prefent capital, whenever the Public fhall be defirous of redeeming the faid capital at fuch price. And that the faid books do remain open for the space of fix calendar months from a given day.

And in order that thofe holders of three per cent. ftock, who might have neglected to fignify fuch confent within the faid fix months, might have an opportunity to do it afterwards, a farther time of three calendar months (to commence from the end of one year after the expiration of the faid fix months) be allowed for that purpose, provided always that thofe perfons only be permitted to fubfcribe their names within the faid latter period (namely, the faid period of three months), who fhould forthwith pay to the Public one pound per cent. upon the amount of their capital.

And that all holders of this new three per cent. ftock fhould be entitled to be paid off before any part of any other public ftock whatfoever fhould be redeemed, and fhould moreover be entitled to be paid off by the following fund; namely, by an annual furplus of not less than one million; to which fhall be added, all the Public annuities for terms of years or for lives that may fall in, and likewife all dividends now payable on the principal or capital ftock of fuch public annuities as fhall at any time hereafter have been redeemed, and that the whole of the faid fund be invariably and unalienably applied to the gradual redemption of the faid new three per cent. ftock, at the prices which the faid ftock fhall fucceffively bear at market. And that the aforefaid fund be permitted to accumulate without limit, as long as there shall remain any of the faid new three per cents. unredeemed.

But when all the new three per cents. fhall be redeemed, then the aforefaid fund fhall no longer continue to accmulate; but, from that time fhall become limited fo as never to exceed two millions per annum, and fhall thenceforth be applied, first to the redemption of the prefent five per cents. then to the redemption of the prefent four per cents. then to the redemption of all public debts which fhall have been contracted after the first day of April, in the year 1786, on account of any war or wars, or otherwife; and which fhall bear intereft at three pounds per centum per annum, or at more than three pounds per centum per annum; and, laftly, to the redemption of the prefent three per cents. if any fuch fhould then exift; and that the furplus of the faid fund above the faid two millions fhall be difpofed of as Parliament fhall direct.

Provided always, nevertheless, that if all the holders of

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prefent

prefent three per cent. ftock fhall have fignified their confent in manner aforefaid, that then, and in fuch cafe, the aforefaid fund, inftead of becoming limited to two millions per annum, fhall continue to accumulate without limit until all the prefent five per cents, and alfo all the prefent four per cents. fhall be redeemed.

And that it be enacted, that if at any time a gain of one eighth per cent. upon the intereft of any fund or funds which hall then by law be redeemable, can be obtained by opening books to receive new fubfcriptions, in order to apply the noney fo fubfaribed to the redemption of ftock bearing a higher intereft, that then and in fuch cafe, books fhall be opened at the Bank for fuch purpose, and that all interest fo faved fhall be added to the aforefaid fund to be applied to the reduction of the national debt; and that the new fubfcribed ftock fhall have the fame right of priority of redemption. as the higher intereft ftock had, which fhould have been paid off in confequence of the faid new fubfcription.

Earl Stanhope obferved, that it ought alfo to be enacted, that the aforefaid fund, inftead of becoming limited to two millions per annum, fhould continue to accumulate without limit, whenever the faid fund fhould come to be applied to redeem any new fubfcribed stock which fhall have been borrowed as aforefaid, in order to pay off any stock bearing an higher intereft; and that it might likewife be enacted, that the compact to be entered into as aforefaid with the holders of three per cent. ftock, fhould be made fubject to the new claufe in Mr. Pitt's bill, for the reduction of the national debt, (propofed in the Hcufe of Commons by Mr. Fox, and affented to by Mr. Pitt) namely, that the Commiffioners fhould be empowered to fubfcribe to any public loan, any of the monies placed to their account in the books at the Bank.

(N. B. In cafe the above plan be made fubject to the fait new claufe, a final variation will be proper in the words of the preamble.)

Earl Stanhope defired their Lordfhips to take particula: notice, that this plan did not pledge the Public to redeem the three per cents. at ninety, but only to give the Public a right to redeem the new three per cents. at a new par of gol. as the Public have now the right to redeem the present three per cents. at the prefent par of 10. And that the Commiffioners appointed by Mr. Pitt's bill, would, under this plan be to purchase up, at market, the new three per cent. ftock, juft in the fame manner, as the Commiffioners were now empowered, by Mr. Pitt's bill, to purchafe up at market, the ftock (whatever it was) which was below par; that is to fay, to purchafe ftock at the then market price.

His Lordship then ftated to the House his reafons for having propofed, in the aforefaid plan, that the stockholder should give up to the Public a part of his nominal capital, and that the Public fhould give to the ftockholder the right of priority of redemption. He ftated, that the ftockholder had three things, which he might give to the Public, and that the Public had four things, which they might give the. ftockholder. First, that the stockholder might give the Public a fum of ready money; but, that this the ftockholder would not choofe to give. Secondly, that the ftockholder had to give to the Public a portion of his dividend; but that this was what the stockholder would alfo be unwilling to relinquish. And thirdly, that the ftockholder had to give up a part of his nominal capital, which would not be to him any prefent lofs, and which he would not confider as any material facrifice. That the Public, on the other hand, might give the stockholder, either ready inoney, or an inereafe of his dividend, or an augmentation of his nominal capital, or the right of priority of redemption. Of these four things, it was evident, that the right of priority of redemption, was that which would beft fuit the Public to give, inasmuch as it was, that which was no lofs to the Public to difpofe of, but which was a material advantage to the stockholder to receive. His Lordship then ftated his reafons for having propofed two periods for fubfcribing, with a year's interval between them; he faid, that either much stock would, or much stock would not, be subscribed in the first period. That, if much frock were fubfcribed in the first period, it became immaterial whether any were fubferibed in the fecond. But that, if much stock were not fubfcribed in the first period, the price of the new subscribed three per cents. would be confiderably higher than the price of the unfubfcribed three per cents. during the year between the two fubfcriptions; and that the inevitable confequence would be, that people would flock to fubfcribe, as foon as the fecond period of fubfcription fhould arrive. The reafon, he faid, for making perfons pay one per cent. upon their capital, who fhould delay fubfcribing till the fecond period, was in order to induce the more perfons to fubfcribe in the first instance.

Earl Stanhope then stated the reafon for not permitting the new finking fund to accumulate beyond two millions per annum, in the particular cafe ftated in the above-mentioned plan, and for throwing the unfubfcribed three per cents. remote from redemption. It was in order to crerte the ftronger inducement for the holders of three per cent. stock to accept of the terms offered to them. His Lordship then explained that part of the plan by which it was proposed to re