A. 1786. Mr. Chan- Mr. Chancellor Pitt having obferved, that the petitioners cellor Pitt. intended to oppofe either the principle or the claufes of the

Mr. Ald.

bill, added, that if the former, they ought to do it as effectually, and with as much propriety on the motion for bringing up the report from the Committee as on the fecond reading; and for this reafon he would oppofe the defired delay. If they meant to oppofe any of the claufes or regulations, then the Committee was the proper stage for their oppofition; and before the bill could reach that ftage, the petitioners would have ample time to prepare inftructions for their counsel. If they intended to confine their oppofition to the principle, he thought they could not ftand in much need of time to prepare for it, as the principle was very well understood and had long fince been opened to Parliament; and the bill itself had been put into the hands of many perfons who dealt very largely in the wine trade, and who confequently were fully apprized of its contents: nay, fome of their obfervations upon it had weighed fo much with him, that he had adopted many things they had fuggefted, and inferted them in the body of the bill.

Mr. Alderman Newnham admitted, that the bill had been Newnham. communicated to three gentlemen in the wine trade; but then thefe gentlemen having conceived, that the communication they had received was confidential, did not think themselves at liberty to disclose to the meeting of the trade the contents of the bill; and confequently the wine merchants at large were totally unacquainted with the regulations which it contained; and of courfe they could not be prepared to draw up inftructions for their counfel to oppose it.

Mr. Chan

Mr. Chancellor Pitt anfwered, that he could pofitively cellor Pitt. affure the honourable gentleman, that when he communicated the bill to the gentlemen in queftion, it was by no means in confidence or under the feal of fecrecy: he wished to collect the fenfe of the trade upon the bill, and confequently he could not have any other intention than that it should be laid before the trade at large. An appplication had been made to him fome time after by thefe gentlemen, to know if they might communicate the contents of the bill intrusted to them to the wine merchants in general; and his anfwer was, that this was what he wifhed for when he gave them the bill, which they could not make too general.

Mr. Ald.

Mr. Alderman Newenham faid, that certain it was, that Newnham. thefe gentlemen understood, at the time they received the bill, that it was given to them in confidence; and on that account the contents were known to themfelves only, and remained a fecret to all the rest of the trade. But though the wine merchants had been fully apprifed of the contents, that

Was

was no reason why the bill fhould be hurried through the House. Every confumer of wine, as well as every dealer in that article, was interested in the fate of the bill; as the excife laws attaching themselves on the tranfit of wines, would open the door of every confumer's houfe, and introduce the excife officers into it.

Mr. Rofe expreffed his aftonifhment the gentleman to Mr. Rofc. whom the communication had been given, could have conceived that it was given to them in confidence; for so far were they from being friends of his right honourable friend, that they were not fo much as known to him when he sent the bill to them. He had heard only that they were very eminent wine merchants; and from that account he thought them the fitteft perfons to collect and make known to him the sense of the trade on the propofed regulations. It feemed, however, that they did conceive that the bill was put into their hands with confidence; for fo far back as a fortnight, he received a note from one of them (Mr Moody) in which he defired to know whether he might communicate the bill to the meeting of the wine merchants at the London tavern. He was at his breakfaft when he received the note; and his anfwer was,. that the bill ought by all means to be laid before the meeting: and fo confcious was he that this was, and had been from the beginning, the wifh of his right honourable friend, that he wrote the above answer without having taken his opinion, upon it. He understood fince indeed, that the answer was not delivered to Mr. Moody till after the breaking up of the meeting but that was not his (Mr. Rofe's) fault; for he difpatched it within half an hour after Mr. Moody's note had been brought to him. At all events, however, the anfwer was known this fortnight paft; and during that time the gentleman had many opportunities of making the contents of the bill known to thofe concerned, who could not be fuppofed now to be ignorant of the contents of the bill, or unprepared to oppofe it. The queftion was put on the motion, which was carried unanimoufly. Mr. Alderman Watfon moved, that the order of the fecond reading of the bill on the morrow be discharged; and this he meant as a prelude to another motion for a new order for the fame purpose on the enfuing Wednesday. The Houfe divided on the motion, which was negatived by a majority of fifty.-Ayes 27.Noes 77.

The report of the perfumery bill was then brought up; and on the motion for the House to agree with it, they divided: Ayes 70.-Noes 14.

The Houfe adjourned.

Friday,

Mr. Fox.

Mr. Pitt.

Mr. Fox.

Mr. Pitt.

Friday, 26th May.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt moved, "That the Speaker be re"quefted to order the fpeech, which he had this day made to his Majesty at the bar of the Houfe of Lords, on prefenting the new finking fund bill for the Royal Affent, to be printed." The motion paffed nem. con.

When the order of the day for the fecond reading of the wine bill was read,

Mr. Fox obferved, that the counfel who had been retained by the wine merchants to oppofe the principle of the bill, had not received any of their inftructions till the preceding: night; and that they had declined appearing at the bar fo early as this day, for this reafon, which they alledged, that it was impoffible for them in fo fort a fpace of time to prepare themselves fo that they should be able to acquit themselves to their own credit, and the advantage of their employers. The ground on which they meant to oppofe the bill was not, that it was oppreffive to extend the provifions of the excife Jaws; but that fuch was the nature of the wine trade, that however applicable the excife laws might be to spirits or other Liquors, they were wholly inapplicable to wine: and in order to make out this pofition, it was neceffary that the counfel fhould have time to receive ample inftructions relative to all the minutiae of that trade.

Mr. Pitt contended, that the notice had been given before the Eafter recess of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's intention to put part of the wine duties under the management of the Board of Excife, the wine merchants could not be faid to be taken by furprife; on the contrary, they had full time to take the principle into confideration; and if they had neglected fo to do, it was their own, and not the fault of that Houfe: and the more fo, as they had had the bill in their poffeffion for a fortnight paft.

Mr. Fox offered to bind himfelf not to debate the principle of the bill till after the fecond reading.

Mr. Pitt anfwered, that as the right honourable gentleman could not bind the reft of the Houle, he (Mr. Pitt) felt himfelf obliged to urge the fecond reading this day. The House accordingly divided on the motion for that purpofe; which was carried by a majority of feventy-four.-Ayes 110.—

Noes 26.

The bill was according read, and an order was made that it be committed on the enfuing Tuesday.

The Lord Advocate of Scotland moved for the fecond "reading of a bill for granting the privileges of British-built "fhips to two fhips belonging to a houfe in Glasgow, "that were built in America fince the peace."

Mr.

kinfon.

Mr. Jenkinson remarked, that as the admiffion of the Mr. Jenclaim relative to these two fhips, which was founded on a mifinterpretation of a proclamation iffued by the King in Council, might open a door for an infinite number of fimilar applications, he fhould oppose the motion. The fecond reading was put off for three months.

Mr. Francis informed the Houfe, that he had feen Mr. Mr. FranMiddleton that morning, who had affured him that he had cis. not in his poffeffion fo much as a copy of any letter that ever paffed between him while he was Prefident at the Court of the Vizier and Mr. Haftings, he having delivered into the hand of the latter both originals and copies.

Mr. Burke wifhing to have this given in evidence at the Mr. Burke. bar, and in order that he might follow the papers, and get at them at laft, moved, "That Mr. Middleton be ordered to "produce them on Tuesday next."

Mr. Pitt contended that it would fully answer all the pur- Mr. Pitt. poles of juftice, if a diftinction were made between fuch letters as were of a public, and as were really of a private nature; and alfo that it would be best to direct the order to the Court of Directors, and leave it to them to procure all let' ters, papers, or diaries, which had paffed between Meff. Middleton and Haftings in their official capacities, while the former was refident at the Court of Oude. This idea was adopted, and the motion was altered accordingly; and being. thus amended, it paffed without a divifion. The Houfe adjourned.

Tucfday, 30th May.

The Lord Advocate of Scotland moved, "That the ot"der for referring to a felect Committee of the House to be "chofen by ballot, the petition complaining of an undue "election for Kirkwall, be difcharged."

Mr. Fox obferved, that the petition alluded to contained Mr. Fox, several strange and heavy charges, very different from those which were ufually urged in election petitions; and what was moft remarkable in the prefent cafe was, that the petition was prefented after the death of the gentleman, of whofe return it complained, fo that there was hot now an opportunity of making a reply to the charges, or calling thofe to a legal accourt who had ventured to prefer them.

The motion paffed.

The order of the day for going into a Committee on the wine bill having been moved by Mr. Pitt,

Viscount Beauchamp begged leave to remind the Houfe, that vifconné the bufinefs relative to the complaint against Mr. Mortlock Beaucham flood originally for this day, and had been poftponed for no other purpofe than that of making way for the bufinefs of Mt. . VOL: XX,

LI

-Haftings,

Mr. Mortlock.

Mr.Courtemay.

Mr. Drake.

Mr. Sheridan.

Haftings, which was to have come on this day: but the latter having been put off, he faw no reafon why the former fhould not be taken up now; and indeed it would be cruel to keep fuch a business hanging over the head of a member, when there was no neceflity for the delay. In point of order it ought to come on firft; for it related to a privilege of the Houfe, the confideration of which ought to precede every other kind of bufinefs. The fact on which the complaint was founded had indeed been proved to the Committee; but it did not appear that there was any evidence which had brought the fact home to Mr. Mortlock. He would therefore fuggeft to the Houfe the propriety of dropping the bufinefs, as far as Mr. Mortlock was concerned in it, and of adopting a refolution which fhould declare the future alteration of any lift or paper delivered to the clerks to be a branch of privilege.

Mr. Pitt would nor confent that the wine bufinefs fhould be poftponed.

Mr. Mortlock defired that he might be fuffered to appeal to the candour of the Houfe, to prevent another adjournment. He was ready to meet the queftion fairly and fully. He declared folemnly he had never intended, in any inftance, to infringe the privileges of the Houfe; and as he was confcious of his own intentions, he repeated his request that the business might be immediately brought on.

Mr. Pitt, Mr. Drake, and the Attorney General, confented as far as they were concerned, to let the bufinefs against Mr. Mortlock drop, on condition that a refolution fhould be adopted, declaring that any alteration of lists, papers, &c. fhould be deemed in future a breach of privilege.

Mr. Courtenay read a part of a claufe of the bill, from the words of which it appeared, as if the excifemen were to come at the tafte of the wines in the bottles, without drawing the corks. This, he fuppofed, had caufed the wine merchants to take the alarm, left the excifemen were to be empowered to break all their bottles. [He was called to, across the Houfe, to read to the end of the claufe, which would explain the difficulty.] Mr. Courtenay faid, he thanked the gentlemen for their advice, but he had read enough for his purpose,

Mr. Drake faid, that the difcuffion of the claufes was a matter fit for the Committee, where they might be entivened with an occafional joke or two.

Mr. Sheridan remarked that as an honourable and learned gentleman avowed fo much regard for gentlemen of his own profeffion, as to wish to fee them twice at the bar on every bill, he begged to know whether that honourable and learned gentleman and his learned colleague near him (the 4

Solicitor