lusive despondency, which many exerted themselves to produce. The Excise, that barometer of consumption, did not shew diminution; their revenue was rising and improving. Commerce was also rapidly increasing. This was proved by the returns. The learned gentleman said that only a remission of taxes afforded the chance of relief to agriculture. He denied that such reduction would afford relief:-if they could sweep away the whole of their taxation, he was prepared to show that no relief would be afforded. He admitted that to remove a tax of itself would be a relief, but he denied that to remove the taxes would afford relief to the country's present distress.-To hold out that reduction of taxation was calculated to relieve, was only to deceive, for they could not counteract the great causes of nature.They must look for relief to that quarter whence it never failed to come to the hand of Providence to the laws of political economy. They must rely on the operation of the laws of nature. He (lord Londonderry) forgot to mention before, that the revenue had gone on increasing-within the last five weeks it had increased 202,000l.-The noble lord then proceeded to detail the votes of last year, adverting to what might be wanted this year. There was a reduction in the army of nearly 1,000,000; 800,000l. navy; ordnance 100,000l. There would be a reduction on the approaching estimates, as compared with the last year, of 1,929,000l. He spoke here of the general services of the country. The noble lord noticed former estimates to shew the savings, which were two mil That lions below the estimates of last year, and three millions below those of 1820. The noble lord, following Mr. Hume's former details, then proceeded to examine the present statement of the income and expenditure. The noble lord, afterwards spoke of the relief that it was expected the government. would be enabled to extend to the country. They thought, they should soon have the power of re-. ducing the navy five per cents, and this would afford the opportunity of taking off the one shilling_per bushel duty on barley. would relieve the taxes to the amount of nearly a million and a half. The ministers could not see how it was possible, with due attention to existing obligations and demands, to afford further relief to taxation. Next year they calculated on being able to relieve the taxes one million more, and the year after to the amount of half or three quarters of a million. As many of the difficulties of the agriculturist must be deemed of a temporary nature the bank had undertaken to lend government four millions, which would be available to advance to such farmers as might require some immediate relief. The noble lord further stated that it was intended to move for the revival of the committee on agriculture, on Monday next, with a view to suggest some amendments of the existing corn laws. Speaking of the sinking fund, his lordship said there was now a clear sinking fund of five millions, and the beneficial operation of it would be, to enable the government to afford relief of taxation. to the extent he had mentioned. His lordship concluded with moving for the production of various papers papers illustrative of the state of the revenue, &c. Mr. Brougham, in reply to his lordship, strongly complained of his former speech having been so imperfectly answered. The proposed relief was of no real value; the reduction of the one shilling duty on malt he deemed a paltry pretension. The plan of borrow ing four millions from the bank, to aid in removing the present difficulties, he contended was a project truly ridiculous. Whilst we had a mixed currency of paper and gold, the latter could not fail to disappear. As to the proposition of the noble lord to lend money to the different parishes, in aid of the poor rates, it was the most preposterous and mischievous that he had ever heard of. It was a plan, which could only tend to encourage waste and extravagance in parishes, and to plunge them deeper in difficulties than they now were, as the day of payment must come, and with the additional charge of interest and management. The noble lord had also proposed to advance sums of money for carrying on public works. This, he supposed, was to be done whether parishes could afford it or not. This would be a plan the most ruinous and mischievous. It would have the effect of extending that system of waste and profligacy, which had so long pervaded the expenditure of ministers in this house, into every village in the kingdom. He concluded by decidedly condemning the noble lord's plan, and calling on the county members to come forward, and force the government to adopt economy and retrenchment, as the only means of saving the country. Mr. Huskisson supported at considerable length the statements of the noble marquis (Londonderry) and conjured the house not to destroy the public credit by giving way to despondency which, in the language of the speech from the throne, would be to" cut off the resources, which had raised us to the situation we have attained." Mr. Hume commented on the enormous expenses of collecting the public revenue. He scouted the idea of lending money to pa-rishes to relieve the poor-and had no doubt but from seven to ten millions might be taken from the annual taxes, and hoped the country would not be satisfied with less reduction. On the question being put, the motion was agreed to, without a division. Feb. 21.-Lord Althorp then rose, pursuant to his former notice, to bring forward his promised motion. The plan and extent of relief proposed to the country by the government, in the noble lord's speech of Friday last,. had disappointed him as well as a great majority in the nation. There were also many members, particularly county members, who had pledged themselves to measures of reduction, or who had complained of the measure of alleviation proposed by the ministers through the noble lord. It was with the view of affording them an opportunity of shewing what were their sentiments on the subject, and making those sentiments known to the minister in the most intelligible manner, that he brough forward the present motion. He should not go into details; he should not particularly advert to C 2 taxes case. taxes that might be reduced; he it did not meet the justice of the should confine himself to the proposition, whether the quantity of relief promised by the government met the justice of the case, and the expectations of the country. If the house agreed with him in that proposition, it would be a matter for subsequent consideration what taxes ought to be reduced-what expenses ought to be diminished. He did not desire absolutely to reduce the expenditure of the country to that of 1792; but he did not see why the expenditure of that period might not be taken as the standard. He was aware that there were some expenses, such as halfpay, &c. that necessarily increased the expenditure of the present time; but as prices were now much the same as they were in 1792, and as we were at peace with all the world, he saw no reason for not generally referring to that period, as one that displayed a sufficiently extensive expenditure. He thought there might be a reduction of taxes-that there might be absolute savings to the country to the amount of five millions. Such amount would operate as real relief to the country. If that saving could be effected, and if the sinking fund were done away, so as to operate as further relief to the country, he should entertain hope of beholding some means for an end to the distresses; and if these could be effected, and there might be a saving beyond the five millions, such saving might be applied to the benefit of the sinking fund. He concluded with moving a resolution, that the plan of relief proposed by the ministers had disappointed the expectations of the country, and that The hon, F. Robinson rose for the purpose of opposing the motion. He maintained that the extent of relief proposed by the noble lord would not so far relieve the country as to remove those distresses that were dwelt upon by the agriculturists. That proposed by the noble marquis was best calculated to support the several interests of the country. Those interests would be best sustained by a gradual reduction of the expenditure and of the taxes. They had heard from the noble marquis that there were to be reductions this year to the extent of 3 millions in the expenditure; and those reductions would be followed up in succeeding years. There was also to be a reduction of taxation, and that reduction would continue yearly. He felt assured that a calm review of all the circumstances of the case, of the real situation of the country, of the obligations pressing on it, would convince the house that the best interests of the nation would be consulted by a gradual reduction of their expenditure and taxes. The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving, as an amendment, two counter-resolutions, stating in substance, that the excess of our income, now exceeding the five millions, the sum recommended by the resolution of the house, of June 9, 1819, as the sum necessary to constitute sinking fund, for the preservation of public credit, by 260,000l. the period had now arrived at which taxation might be diminished, and the public feel the benefit of the plan recommended by the house, in their resolution of 1819. a Lord Lord J. Russell was decidedly in favour of adopting the plan recommended by his noble friend, of appropriating the whole sum of five millions to the relief of the people. Mr. Banks supported the plan proposed by ministers, as that most fitting to be adopted. Mr. Tierney entered into a review of the sinking fund from its first establishment, and adverted to the various inroads which had been made upon it. We had now seized the last rag which remained, namely, the compound interest, and by the confession of the noble lord, all which now remained to the public was a saving of 260,000l. annually, to be, as the noble lord said, applied to the reduction of the burdens to which the public were subjected. Mr. Wilmot defended the plan of ministers. Sir R. Wilson opposed it. After some observations from Mr. Whitmore and Mr. Price, The chancellor of the exchequer entered at length into a review of our present financial situation. It had been contended that we were insolvent; if it was so, that was a good reason for not paying our debts; but he was prepared to shew that we were in a very different situation. Pictures had been drawn of the flourishing state of our finances, previous to the late war, but he contended that the country was at present in a much more flourishing state than it was at the time which had been so often alluded to, namely, 1792. The right hon. gentleman went into a review of the present state of our commerce and revenue to support his assertion. He concluded by observing, that he had no doubt as to the result of to-night's debate; but he felt it right to say, that on that result depended whether he should or should not be able to carry on the financial arrangement of the year. Lord Althorp replied; after which the house divided. For the original motion, 126For the amendment, 234-Majority for ministers, 108. Feb. 22.-The chancellor of the exchequer moved that the house go into a committee of ways and means for raising the supply. The chancellor of the exchequer moved the continuation of the tobacco duty.-Agreed to. The chancellor of the exchequer moved that the continuation of the 4s. duty on pensions, &c. be continued. Mr. Hume moved, as an amendment, that the sum of "ten" shillings be substituted for "four" shillings, on all pensions and allowances above 2001. The chancellor of the exchequer observed, that this would only affect particular pensions, as acts exempted some of them. Mr. Hume said, he had never desired to take the house by surprise, nor did he wish to urge what would not bear the strictest examination; but he required that the original motion should be postponed, and that the chancellor of the exchequer should give them full accounts of the pensions, those which were exempted from duties, &c. The chancellor of the exchequer said, it would be inconvenient to postpone the motion. Lord Londonderry thought agreeing to the motion would not injure the object of the hon. member respecting pensions. The The chancellor of the exchequer observed, that he should have no objection to postpone the motion, but for the inconvenience to which it would put the parties. Mr. G. Bennett said, under these circumstances he should move as an amendment, that the chairman" report progress and ask leave to sit again." Strangers withdrew, amidst an immense deal of noise in the body of the house. The numbers were, For the amendment, 66-Against it, 133-Majority 67. The original resolution was then agreed to; as were some other resolutions for continuing the duties on sugar, &c. The chancellor of the exchequer then moved, that the house do go into a committee of supply. Mr. Hume opposed the motion. The hon. member entered at considerable length into a review of the accounts now before the house, and concluded by declaring he would divide on the question for the order of the day being read. After a conversation of some length, the house divided-For the order of the day being read, 144-For the amendment, 54Majority against the amendment, 90. tended, that 21,000 were necessary for the service. Mr. Hume contended, that there were but 19,000 men in 1817, and surely that number would be sufficient now. Mr. Croker denied the assertion, and contended that the member for Aberdeen was wrong in all his calculations. Lord Londonderry defended the original proposition. Sir I. Coffin bore testimony to the services done by the marines. Upon a division-For the original motion, 57-For the amendment, 53--Majority, 104. Several other items were moved, and divisions took place, and the house sat to a late hour. Feb. 25.-The chancellor of the exchequer rose to bring forward his proposed plan for the redemption of the five per cent. stock. The right hon. gentleman entered into a detail of his plan and intentions. PLAN. "A new stock to be created, bearing an interest at the rate of four per cent. per annum, the interest to be payable on the 5th of January, and the 5th of July, in each year, and not to be paid off until the 5th of January, 1829. "All holders of five per cents. who shall not signify their dissent, to have for every 100l. five per cent. annuities 1054. in the new four per cent. stock. "The first dividend of the new four per cent. stock to be payable on the 5th of January, 1823. "Books to be opened at the bank from Monday, the 4th of March, to Saturday, the 16th of March, 1822, both days inclusive, for |