LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY said a few words in explanation. been misunderstood. The fact, however, LORD KINNAIRD said, before he left was that in France little need or desire Scotland the disease had disappeared in existed to see such specimens of the an- one place and had broken out in another. cient masters as we possessed. The Spanish The farmers had come forward in a most and Italian schools of painting were pro-liberal way with an offer to buy up two bably better represented than they were or three lots of cattle where the disease with us. Their great desire was to see the had broken out; but the owners would works of our modern school of painters, not dispose of them. On the passing of and to study the progress of art in this the Bill he had written to the owners to country. say that they had better take the responsibility of slaughtering the animals; but he had that morning heard that that measure was unnecessary, inasmuch as the animals had all recovered. He knew of other districts where cure was common, and as people did not like to give up the chance of bringing about the recovery of valuable animals, they would endeavour to evade the Act. He declared that he would do his best to evade it himself. They could not expect a person to sacrifice a valuable herd when there was a possibility of cure; and when Mr. Hunt's Bill came on he should have to move an Amendment to it in that respect. LORD TAUNTON, agreeing with the observations of the noble Lord opposite, thought it would be better to introduce more general words. The phrase "British works of ancient Art" left it doubtful whether the works referred to were those of ancient British artists, or merely works of ancient artists in the possession of persons resident in this country. After a few observations from Lord OVERSTONE and the Duke of MARLBOROUGH, the words "Works of Art now in this country" were substituted for the words "British works of ancient Art." Further Amendments made. Bill to be read 3a on Monday next; and to be printed, as amended. (No. 26.) ILLEGAL REMOVAL OF CATTLE. QUESTIONS. LORD WHARNCLIFFE asked the Lord President, Whether the Local Authority in England could apply the county rate to the payment of rewards offered for information as to illegal removal of cattle? THE EARL OF AIRLIE inquired, whether any experiments had been made under the direction of the Government, not only with a view of discovering a cure for the disease, but for the purpose of fortifying the systems of animals that had not yet taken the infection? By Papers presented that morning it appeared that the Consul at Warsaw had stated that in Poland mineral water had been found a successful cure. He wished also to ask, whether the Government had placed any animals under the care of Mr. Worms, whose treatment was said to be very effective? He had received a letter that morning informing him of the recovery of fourteen out of fifteen animals. As it was quite possible that even if the disease should be "stamped out" now it might break out again, it was very desirable that if any means of cure should be discovered the treatment should be made known. EARL GRANVILLE, in reply to the noble Lord who had addressed the first Question to him, had to state that the House adjourned at a quarter before HOUSE OF COMMONS, Friday, February 23, 1866. MINUTES.-SUPPLY-considered in Committee -Princess Helena and Prince Alfred; Monu- Cattle Diseases (Ireland); Hop Trade; Merchant * First Reading-Public Companies [35]; Hop | suppression of the slave trade. To that Trade [36]; Cattle Diseases (Ireland) [37]; condition the United States Government, Rochdale Vicarage* [38]; Turnpike Roads [39]. Second Reading-Public Offices (Site) * [10]. Referred to Select Committee Public Offices (Site)* Considered as amended-Cattle Plague [32]. Third Reading-Cattle Plague [34]; Telegraph Act Amendment * [23] [Lords] and passed. PUBLIC SCHOOLS.-QUESTION. MR. GRANT DUFF asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether it is intended to introduce during the course of the present Session any measure with reference to the Public Schools? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, in reply, that he was not able to state positively that a measure relating to Public Schools would be introduced this Session; but, if the state of public business would permit, it was the intention of his noble Friend, Lord Clarendon, to bring in a Bill in the other House. UNITED STATES AND Cuba. MR. BAXTER asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, If any communications have taken place between Her Majesty's Government and the Government of the United States regarding the propriety of sending a joint Squadron to the Coast of Cuba, for the purpose of preventing the importation of Slaves into that Island? on its part very naturally, did not feel itself able to accede. On the other hand, Her Majesty's Government, quite as na. turally, felt that if they were to exempt ships from the operation of the Neutrality Proclamation on any other ground, and allow it to be made the means of rendering British ports available for warlike operations, they would be departing from its spirit. With the best intentions on both sides, it was found impossible to agree on any practicable measure. BRIGANDAGE IN GREECE. QUESTION. LORD AUGUSTUS HERVEY asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether he is aware that the Demarch of Astakò reported to the superior authorities that the three English travellers who were seized by brigands near Dragomestre, on the 8th of December, 1865, had been previously warned by him of their danger; whether he is aware that that report was completely untrue; and, if So, whether the Foreign Office has urged, ment the dismissal of that functionary? or intends to urge, upon the Greek Govern MR. LAYARD said, that so far from the authorities stating that they had assured the three English gentlemen that there was no danger, they rather complained of those gentlemen going into a part of the THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEcountry infested by brigands. He held in QUER: Sir, I must answer the Question his hand a report from the Demarch of of my hon. Friend in the negative. There Astakò to his Government, in which the have been no communications between Her fact was stated. Under these circumstances, Majesty's Government and the Government Her Majesty's Government did not think of the United States with respect to send- it necessary to call upon the Greek Governing any squadron to the coast of Cuba. ment to take any steps with regard to him. There were communications some time ago Mr. Erskine had directed inquiries to be -I think in the year 1864-between the made into the facts of the case. It would two Governments with respect to the ex-be very advisable if travellers in Greece— pediency of sending a small American squadron to the West African coast. With regard to the desirability of attaining the object in view, both parties were entirely at one; but the desire of the Government of the United States was that the vessels of the United States appointed to that duty should be released from the restrictions placed upon the cruisers of the United States in British ports generally under the Neutrality Proclamation. The opinion of Her Majesty's Government was that it was perfectly fair that they should be released, but that all vessels so released should be employed exclusively in operations for the and there appeared to be many-would put themselves in communication with the authorities before proceeding through districts remote from towns, as it was well known that brigandage was rife at the present moment in that country. DISEASE AMONG SWINE. SIR JOHN WALSH asked the President of the Board of Trade, Whether the attention of Her Majesty's Government has been drawn to the appearance of a new disease affecting swine in parts of the Con MR. H. A. BRUCE said, in reply, that in 1862 Professor Gamgee was directed to report upon the subject of diseases in meat, and among the diseases embraced in the inquiry was the one referred to. A German phy sician of eminence, who had paid special attention to the subject, was directed to make a Report, and it was published in the last volume of the Reports of the Medical Officer of the Privy Council. The Report was most exhaustive, supplied a number of illustrations, and gave every possible information upon this and other parasitic diseases affecting animals that were killed for human food. tinent of Europe, and not only destroying the decision of the Postmaster General, the animal, but rendering the flesh poison- that his noble Friend did some years ago ous and dangerous to human life; and consider very fully and readjust the salaries whether they have instituted any inquiries in the great metropolitan department. In by competent medical and scientific au- looking into the question to which his hon. thorities, with a view to ascertain the na- Friend referred, the Postmaster General ture, extent, and progress of the disease? examined very carefully what was the He wished to explain, in putting the Ques- alteration in the position of the lettertion, that the disease had appeared in carriers in consequence of any rise in France and Germany, and that eggs were house-rents or in the price of particular deposited by insects in the hide of the provisions, and likewise-a matter which animal, which died soon afterwards, or, if his hon. Friend's Question did not take slaughtered, could not be eaten with notice of-of any fall in the price of parsafety. ticular provisions--due either to the legislation of that House or to some other cause. His noble Friend (Lord Stanley of Alderley) also had regard to another very important question-namely, what was the application all over the country for the situation of letter-carrier, and the degree of disposition shown by perfectly competent persons to undertake it. Examining the whole of that matter, and finding that there was no diminution in the number or in the quality of persons who were found desirous of obtaining the situation of lettercarrier, and likewise looking carefully into the questions of house-rent and provisions, he came to the conclusion that there was no sufficient ground for acceding to that application, and he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) confessed that his impression Iwas that the decision was a wise one. With respect to the latter part of the Question, he had no information on the subject to which it referred; but he thought it very probable that what was there stated might be so. There were departments of the public service in which salaries had been raised, and that within no long time back. There might be others in which the same question was at present undergoing consideration; but he did not think that the course taken by magistrates with reference to the salaries in this or that particular county of the police, who were a recent institution, would afford any conclusive evidence with regard to the course which the Government ought to take in respect of the wages of letter-carriers. WAGES OF LETTER CARRIERS. QUESTION. MR. FAWCETT asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether he thinks the Postmaster General came to a just and wise decision in refusing the application which the letter-carriers made for an advance in their wages in consequence of the rise in house-rent and in the price of provisions; and, whether these same considerations have not induced the magistrates of many counties to raise the salaries of the police? MINES. QUESTION. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, that in answer to his hon. Friend, he had to state that the decision to which he referred was, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) believed, a decision of the Postmaster General never brought before the Treasury until it came under its notice in consequence of the Question of his hon. Friend; and it was a decision MR. CLIVE asked the Secretary of not upon the case of the whole of the let-State for the Home Department, Whether ter-carriers of the Post Office, as, perhaps, the question might lead hon. Members to suppose, but upon an application from a considerable number of the country lettercarriers. He mentioned this because it was important to bear in mind, in considering VOL. CLXXXI. [THIRD SERIES.] the Government is about to bring in any measure with reference to those Mines in Great Britain to which the Act 23 & 24 Vict. c. 151 does not apply? SIR GEORGE GREY, in reply, said, it was the intention of the Government to 2 I 963 Ireland-Queen's University {COMMONS} and Queen's Colleges. bring in a Bill on the subject referred to, and they had been in communication with several members of the Commission as to the preparation of the Bill. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: My hon. Friend is, no doubt, well aware, from his experience in Parliament, that the universal and inflexible rule of those who hold the office I do is to decline to answer any question in respect to the reduction of duties, except in those cases in which the Government itself has done some act which gives ground for the presumption that such reduction is intended. My opinion is that there is not any ground for reducing the duty on coffee with reference to the duty on tea, because I think they are things which ought to bear pretty nearly the same duty ad valorem. I believe the duty is about 6d. a pound on tea and 3d. a pound on coffee. There may be a difference of 2 or 3 per cent ad valorem; but I believe the relation is as fair as it is possible to make it. WEIGHTS AND MEASURES. QUESTION. MR. DAWSON asked the Secretary to the Treasury, Whether, in the Bill contemplated by the Government for the better Regulation of Weights and Measures, provision will be made as to a scale of uniformity in Weights and Measures, to be ap; plicable equally to all parts of the United Kingdom? MR. CHILDERS said, in reply, that his hon. Friend did not quite understand the answer which he had given yesterday. It related to the Exchequer standards, and to copies made of those standards. The present question related more to the law as to weights and measures in force in England and Ireland, which was not directly the object of the Bill in question. CATTLE STATISTICS. QUESTION. MR. READ asked the President of the Board of Trade, What machinery will be employed in taking the number of Cattle, Sir George Grey 964 and whether any portion of the Vote for Agricultural Statistics will be applied to defray the expenses of the Cattle Returns? MR. MILNER GIBSON said, in reply, that the machinery employed was this. A schedule was drawn up by the Board of Trade, it was sent through the Post Office to the owners of live stock, and certain officers of the Inland Revenue then made up the aggregate Returns. The Vote to which the hon. Gentleman referred would be applicable to the collection of those statistics. IRELAND-QUEEN'S UNIVERSITY AND QUEEN'S COLLEGES. QUESTION. SIR ROBERT PEEL: Perhaps it would be convenient for the House, as I have already obtained the concurrence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that I should ask the right hon. Gentleman, as the organ of the Government, a Question with respect to the subject which stands on the Notice Paper to-day in my name. I should like, with the permission of the House, to put that Question prefaced by a very few remarks, but I am altogether in the hands of the House. I think, considering the importance of the Question, and the answer given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer the other night, that the House would perhaps allow me. Sir, the Motion which stands in my name on the Paper is now well-known to hon. Members. I may be blamed because sufficient time has not been allowed to elapse between putting the Notice on the Paper, and the Motion to which that Notice refers; but I will We-for explain how that has occurred. I do not speak in my own name only, but I speak on behalf of many hon. and right hon. Members in this House-have felt nominations that the circumstances of the case were so important, and the danger so great to the principles which were involved in the existing system of the Queen's University -namely, united secular University education for the youth of Ireland of all deupon a footing of complete equality-that we believed no time was to be lost in bringing the question under the notice of the House. And, even supposing I had not obtained the permission of the House to make a few remarks, such is the importance of the question that, to put myself in order, I would, if necessary, conclude by making a Motion of adjournment. 965 Ireland — Queen's University (FEBRUARY 23, 1866} and Queen's Colleges. MR. SPEAKER: Unless I am otherwise directed by the House, and unless the House desires, that there should be a departure from our ordinary rules, I must remind the right hon. Baronet of the exact state of the case. The right hon. Baronet has given Notice that at a later period of the evening, on the Motion for going into Committee of Supply, he will make a Motion upon this subject. The right hon. Baronet has the liberty, if he pleases, to change that Motion into the form of a Question; but, in putting the Question he is bound to observe the rules which are prescribed, and I must also add that it will not be in his power to do what he has just said he might do, to make a Motion to adjourn the House for the purpose of this discussion. Because he has given Notice of his intention at a later period of the evening to move an Address, he cannot now by anticipation go into that question by moving the adjournment of the House. SIR ROBERT PEEL: I am quite will ing, Sir, to bow to your decision, but in my own justification I must say that it is at the desire of the Chancellor of the Exchequer that I rise to put this Question. I will merely say that, in consequence of the dialogue which took place between us the other night, I saw my right hon. Friend, and he informed me that there appeared to be some misunderstanding with respect to the answer which he then gave, and he told me and it will be a great satisfaction to the House to hear it-that the Government, having seen the Notice which I put on the Paper, have been graciously pleased to yield to the general wish of the House-they have determined not to obtain the Sign Manual of the Sovereign until they have submitted the question to the judgment of the House. The Chancellor of the Exchequer will tell you so. MR. SPEAKER: I must remind the right hon. Baronet that this is rather an answer to the Question than the Question itself. SIR ROBERT PEEL: The intelligence was so gratifying to myself and other hon. Members that I could not forbear from saying that, in consequence, I believe, of this notice of mine--as the Chancellor of the Exchequer will tell you-nothing will be done to alter the Charter. ["Order, order!"] Well, then, I will ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer-Is it or is it not the case that since the Notice which 966 I placed upon the Paper the other night the Government have determined to yield to what appeared to be the wishes of the House? Will they or will they not make any alteration in the Charter of the Queen's University without first consulting the House as to the propriety of those changes? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Sir, in the first place let me say that I think no man could blame my right hon. Friend, with the feelings which he ascribes to himself-believing that the House was in danger of being taken by surprise-for having looked for the first opportunity of interposing. That is my first answer. My next answer will not be precisely the same in form. My right hon. Friend has asked whether, since the Notice which he placed on the Paper the other night, Her Majesty's Government have determined not to make any alteration in the Charter of the Queen's University without first consulting the House as to the propriety of the change. In reply to that, I have to say that there has been no change whatever in the intentions of Her Majesty's Government since or before the appearance of the Notice of my right hon. Friend. But the Question put to me upon the former day by my right hon. Friend, if I recollect it rightly, was, whether I would lay upon the table of the House a draft of the Charter as proposed to be altered before advising the Queen to sign it. ["No, no!"] So I understood the Question. Such I believe it to be, and to that Question I must answer now, as then, in the negative. But I said at that time that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department was prepared to lay upon the table of the House at the earliest possible period the correspondence relating to this subject; and if the object of my right hon. Friend is simply to be fully informed of the advice which the Government may think it their duty to give to the Crown in this important matter, I entirely concur with him in thinking it is quite reasonable that that information should be given. I always thought that last year, when the Government came to its preliminary Resolution on this subject, the very first thing done was to state to this House the nature of the changes which it was proposed to make. Since that time there has been much correspondence on the subject. That correspondence is not yet concluded. I believe the House will not think there is anything strange in the delay which has |