wise man has said that everything is good | the House to pass this measure, and given in its time, and the converse of this propo- decisive support to the proposal of my right sition will also hold-that nothing is good hon. Friend. [“Name!"] I would instance that is out of its time. But there were the hon. Gentleman the Member for Kiltwo statements contained in parts of that kenny (Sir John Gray), and I do not unremarkable speech, and suggested by it derstand either the hon. Member for Traall along, to which alone I shall make par-lee (The O'Donoghue), or the hon. Memticular reference. My hon. Friend stated that in this matter we are dealing coercively with the Irish people; and he appeared to believe-indeed, he distinctly said that the numerical majority of that people, if left to themselves, and if it were physically possible, would unmoor the island from its fastenings in the deep, and convey it at least 2,000 miles westward. Now, Sir, I think there is no fallacy which can be propagated in connection with the present subject more dangerous in its character than the supposition that the proceeding in which we are now engaged is an appeal to a simply or substantially English Parliament to apply the hand of force to Ireland. Her Majesty on this occasion makes an undoubted and unhesitating appeal to the well-tried loyalty of her faithful Commons in the Parliament of the United Kingdom, and that Parliament as it is English, as it is Scotch, so also is it Irish. The Irish portion of the Parliament is not less freely elected than the English and Scotch portions. It is elected by the voices of the people of Ireland; and, for my part, I decline to recognize the voice of that people, or to accept any interpretation of their real feelings and opinions, other than that which is conveyed through the mouths of its representatives lawfully chosen to sit in this House. Well, then, what has been the voice of the representatives of Ireland on the present occasion? Have they come forward to protest against the measures that we propose? My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham-let me again do him that full justice-and my hon. Friend the Member for Westminster (Mr. Stuart Mill) have avowed, though reluctantly and with hesitation, that they approve, under the circumstances, of the proposal we have made, and that at least they will not take the responsibility of resisting that proposal. Then we have heard Members representing popular constituencies in Ireland-Members sympathizing with every sentiment which exists in the popular mind, and having close associations with the religious teachers of the great majority of the Irish people-they have spoken unchecked and uncontradicted by their companions, and they have advised The Chancellor of the Exchequer ber for Tipperary (Mr. Dillon), to mean The regard to it; and I am confident that the hon. Gentleman himself will agree with me that it would have been a breach of our duty if, under those circumstances, we had caused unnecessary alarm and other grave inconveniences by adopting such a course. We have endeavoured to ascertain fully the necessity for this measure before submitting it to the House, and we have also endeavoured to limit the time of its action, so that at a very early period we may be again compelled, if we feel that its prolongation is necessary, to submit the question to the mature judgment of Parliament, ripened and strengthened by the observation which the interval will have afforded. We have endeavoured to exhaust, before resorting to this measure, all the means afforded by the ordinary law. After what has already been said on the subject, I will pass over that portion of the speech of the hon. Gentleman, with reference to which I could only repeat what has been so convincingly stated by my right hon. Friend (Sir George Grey), as to the condition of affairs in Ireland which leads us to believe that this measure is indispensably necessary. We do not propose this measure because we believe that it is through English influence and English regiments that the connection between the two countries is to be maintained. My firm belief is that the influence of Great Britain in every Irish difficulty is not a domineering and tyrannizing, but a softening and mitigating influence; and that were Ireland detached from her political connection with this country, and left to her own unaided agencies, it might be that the strife of parties would there burst forth in a form calculated to strike horror through the land; though I do not hesitate to express my conviction that if that struggle were carried on with Irish means and resources exclusively, Ireland, united as it is, without distinction of creed or class, in support of order, would effectually and quickly extinguish all the machinations of these disloyal and misguided men. The hon. Member for Birmingham has asked me for expressions of sympathy with Ireland, and declarations as to the intentions of the Government in regard to applying itself to a consideration of measures for the improvement of the condition of the country. Neither my Colleagues nor myself have been, or will be, slow to give utterance to those sentiments at the proper time. My hon. Friend says we have no statesmanship; and it may be, if we have not shown it, he is perfectly justified in saying we have not got it. It may also be that the depressing and the bewildering influence of the masses of detail, with which all public life is overlaid at this hour, may have had upon us, and others more worthy, the effect of obscuring our view and lowering our aims as to the highest objects of public policy; but on this day we have one, and only one, duty to perform-an irksome, a painful, a grievous duty, and yet one of solemn and primary obligation. However contracted be the scale of statesmanship in this country, at least let us see that we retain a sensitive perception of its elementary functions, and that we know as no man can reach the higher rounds of the ladder without treading on the lower, so no man is fit to deal with great political problems unless he sets before his eyes, and never consents to turn away his vision for one moment from, the primary duty of maintaining in an orderly and peaceful country the blessings of peace and order, and of defending the loyal and well-disposed masses of the community against those who may have been unhappily misled. This is the duty of to-day, and to that duty for the day we confine ourselves. I have said we are grateful to the Housegrateful to it for the appreciation which from every one of its Benches it has shown of the obligation which at this moment presses upon us. When time and occasion offer, let us give anxious consideration to every subject connected with the welfare of Ireland; but do not let us permit those subjects which, important as they are, are less important than the duty of to-day, to interfere with the discharge of that duty. Do not let us say to-day that which can be as well said on any other and future occasion. Let me remind the House of the position in which we stand in another respect. Every question of this kind, however marked may be the unanimity that prevails upon it, is a critical question; it is one of a class of questions which puts free institutions on their trial before the world. We aim by our laws, our habits, and our institutions, at the preservation and development of the fullest liberty. If the foes of public freedom sometimes ask contemptuously whether that individual liberty is not purchased at the expense of weakness in the State in times of public difficulty or danger, it devolves upon this House to give the answer; and I feel well convinced what that answer will be. I believe, from the manifestations of opinion that have proceeded from every The Question having been put, and the great majority of voices appearing to be for the Ayes, Mr. Speaker declared that "The but an hon. Member Ayes have it;' 348. Bill ordered to be brought in by Sir GEORGE GREY, Mr. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, and Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL for IRELAND. "Bill to empower the Lord Lieutenant or other Chief Governor or Governors of Ireland to apprehend and detain, for a limited time, such persons as he or they shall suspect of conspiring against Her Majesty's Person and Government," presented, and read the first and second time; committed; considered in Committee, and reported, without Amendment; read the third time, and passed. AYES. quarter in this House, that before another | reducing to its minimum, the frightful hour has struck its note this Bill will, in mischief of the outbreak of insurrection ; all likelihood, have passed into another for the purpose of defending the loyal place for the purpose of being submitted masses of the people, of whatever class and to another judgment; and we shall show religion; for the purpose of vindicating the to the world upon this occasion-as the name and fame of this country; and for House has never been slow to show upon the purpose, last of all, of defending also other occasions that you need not para- the misguided and misled agents of these lyze the arm of authority in the time of frightful evils against themselves. danger because you appreciate the value of freedom, and that the harmony of those two great principles is recognized, understood, revered, and practised among us. It is well to bear in mind that, however difficult be the problem that faces us with respect (believed to be The O'Donoghue) crying The Noes have it ;" the House to Ireland, even upon this very that " occasion we may see, and it is our duty if we see, divided:-Ayes 354; Noes 6: Majority to record the signs of progress made. Two generations ago a wide-spread rebellion in Ireland would have plunged whole provinces or extended districts in blood. In 1822, when the Habeas Corpus Act was suspended, there was a spirit of disaffection, powerful not in numbers only, but in other elements of strength, and that was not of foreign introduction. In 1848 this House divided upon the proposal to suspend the Habeas Corpus Act, and that division was preceded by a deliberation totally different in tone, I rejoice to say, from that of today. No Member has to-day said that he thought he best discharged his duty to the Queen by endeavouring to detach from her dominions those portions of them which it was not convenient for her to occupy and to rule. Nor are we likely, I think, to see the proceedings of this day followed up, as were those of 1848, by a Member rising, and, amid the suppressed indignation of the House-which then, perhaps, more than upon any historical occasion, testified its inestimable regard for the great principle of liberty of speech-stating that when he quitted the House he would go to Ireland for the purpose of offering armed resistance to the law. Some progress, at least, has been made towards unity of sentiment; and we have in that unity of sentiment additional testimony, if additional testimony were needed, to the assertion that was authoritatively made in the Speech from the Throne, and was not contradicted, I think, in this House, with respect to that remarkable state of opinion, that remarkable unity of sentiment in Ireland which encourages us to go fearlessly forward with those measures which are necessary for the maintenance of authority and law; for the purpose of preventing, if it may be, and at any rate limiting and The Chancellor of the Exchequer Acland, T. D. Bruce, rt. hon. H. A. Butler-Johnstone, H.A. Campbell, A. H. Carnegie, hon. C. Cavendish, Lord E. Cochrane, A. D. R.W.B. Colebrooke, Sir T. E. Coleridge, J. D. Corry, rt. hon. H. L. Cooper, E. H. Cowper, hon. H. F. Harris, J. D. Hartley, J. Hervey, Lord A. H. C. Hayter, Captain A. D. Headlam, rt. hon. T. E. Heathcote, Sir W. Henderson, J. Henley, rt. hon, J. W. Henley, Lord Herbert, hon. P. E. Hesketh, Sir T. G. Hodgson, K. D. Hogg, Lt.-Col. J. M. Holden, I. Holford, R. S. Hope, A. J. B. B. Horsman, rt. hon. E. Hotham, Lord Howard, hon. C. Howard, Lord E. Huddleston, J. W. Hughes, T. Hunt, G. W. Ingham, R. Jardine, R. Jervis, Captain Kearsley, Captain R. Kekewich, S. T. Meller, W. Miller, S. B. Miller, T. J. Miller, W. Mills, C. H. Milton, Viscount Mitchell, A. Mitford, W. T. Moffatt, G. Montagu, Lord R. Severne, J. E. Sherriff, A. C. Simonds, W. B. Somerset, Colonel Speirs; A. A. Monk, C. J. Montgomery, Sir G. Stanhope, J. B. More, J. Stanley, hon. F. Morley, S. Stansfeld, J. Morrison, W. Steel, J. Peel, J. Foley, H. W. Kinglake, A. W. Kinglake, J. A. Pritchard, J. Fort, R. Pugh, D. Fortescue, hon. D. F. Lamont, J. Rebow, J. G. French, Colonel Lawrence, W. Gallwey, Sir W. P. Lawson, J. A. Gaskell, J. M. Leader, N. P. Leatham, W. H. Leeman, G. Getty, S. G. Lefevre, G. J. S. Gibson, rt. hon. T. M. Lefroy, A. Gladstone, rt. hn. W. E. Gladstone, W. H. Glyn, G. C. Glyn, G. G. Goddard, A. L. Gooch, D. Lennox, Lord G. G. Lewis, H. Lindsay, hon. Colonel C. Lindsay, Colonel R. L. Locke, J. Mackinnon, Capt. L. B. Scourfield, J. H. Verney, Sir H. Villiers, rt. hon, C. P. Walsh, Sir J. Watkin, E. W. Weguelin, T. M. Western, Sir T. B. Westropp, H. Whalley, G. H. Whitworth, B. Wickham, H. W. Williams, Colonel Williamson, Sir H. Winnington, Sir T. E. Wise, H. C. Wood, rt. hon. Sir C. Wyndham, hon. P. Wynn, C. W. W. Wynne, W. R. M. Yorke, J. R. TELLERS. Brand, hon. H. B. W. Adam, W. P. [The Bill having been Committed, Re-committed, and Considered as Amended, without having been re-printed, great difficulty has been experienced in following out the Motions for Amendments, particularly those of which no Notice had been given. When a Clause has been agreed to, with or without Amendment, the small figures added refer to the No. of the corresponding Clause in the re-print of the Bill No. 22.] Bill, as amended, considered. SIR JAMES FERGUSSON said, that some of the Scottish boroughs were very small; he knew one instance where the population of a borough consisted of only 400 persons. The Bill, as it now stood, made the magistrates of boroughs the local authorities by whom the slaughter of diseased cattle in towns was to be ordered. He feared that in some of the small Scottish boroughs the magistrates would, from a fear of entailing expense on their fellow townsmen, shrink from ordering the slaughter of cattle. He therefore moved, after Clause 5, to insert the following clause :"The powers of each Cattle Plague Board shall extend over the whole of the county for which it is appointed, and over all burghs situated therein, excepting cities and burghs which have the right to elect Members to Parliament, and whereof the population within the Parliamentary boundaries of any such burgh exceeds ten thousand." SIR ANDREW AGNEW said, that when the county which he represented (Wigtonshire) was threatened by the cattle plague the magistrates of a small burgh on the borders of the county refused to prevent a cattle bazaar being held in their town, although frequently remonstrated with on the subject. He strongly urged the House to insert the proposed clause in the Bill. MR. M'LAREN protested against the adoption of a clause which would disfranchise nearly sixty Scottish boroughs. He had had opportunities of knowing, from the meetings of the Convention of the Royal Burghs held in Edinburgh every year, that there was no set of men more intelligent or more anxious to do their duties than the municipal authorities. Why, then, should a stigma be cast upon the Scotch people by this Amendment? If there was any difference between England and Scotland, it might be supposed that the £10 constituency in Scotland would elect a better class of magistrates than the mere ratepayers in an English borough. MR. CUMMING-BRUCE said, that the addition to the clause was not proposed in order to disfranchise the boroughs in any sense, but in order to secure harmonious action throughout the country. He was willing that the magistrates should be represented in the county boards, and should there unite in laying a common plan of action. But, unless some such security was taken, all the evils of conflicting action and jurisdiction would be revived. After a short conversation, THE LORD ADVOCATE said, he did not see any reason for drawing such a distinction between English and Scotch boroughs as would be drawn by the clause now under discussion. He believed the magistrates of the small Scotch boroughs were quite competent to discharge the duties imposed on them by the Bill. Clause negatived. Clause brought up, and read the first time. Motion made, and Question put, "That the said Clause be now read a second time." The House divided:-Ayes 100; Noes 146: Majority 46. Clause 4 (Definition of "District," "Local Authority," "Local Rate," and "Clerk of Local Authority"). MR. CRAWFORD proposed to add the following proviso: "Provided, that within the City of London and the liberties thereof the Court of the Lord Mayor and Aldermen shall, for all the purposes of this Act, except that of making a rate, be deemed the local authority, but for the purpose of making a Board of Works shall be the local authority.” rate for the purposes of this Act the Metropolitan Motion agreed to. Proviso added to clause. Clause 15 (Slaughter of Cattle herded with Diseased Animals). SIR EDWARD BULLER moved to add the following proviso: "Provided always that the Lords of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, or any dered to be slaughtered as aforesaid) for the purtwo or more of them, may reserve animals (orof experimental treatment." Motion agreed to. Proviso added. pose |