Motion agreed to :-House fin Commit

Motions for Amendments, particularly those ing out clauses should be gone through at of which no Notice had been given. When once with a view to expedite matters. a Clause has been agreed to, with or without Amendment, the small figures added refer to the No. of the corresponding Clause in the re-print of the Bill No. 22.]

Order of the Day for Committee read.

On Question, That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair;

tec.

(In the Committee.)

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.
Clause 3 postponed.

Clause 4 agreed to.

Clause 5 (Local Authority in Counties in Scotland).

THE LORD ADVOCATE rose to address the Committee

MR. DISRAELI said, he wished to ask, with a view to the progress of the public business, whether the explanation which the Lord Advocate was about to give was the same as that which he intended to give at the meeting in the tea-room to-morrow. It was his object to facilitate the progress of the Bill, which he had been in hopes would be passed through Committee that night. But if there were an arrangement by which a section of the Government was to meet a section of the Members of that House to-morrow it might have the effect of preventing the passing of the Bill through Committee that night. He trusted that the Lord Advocate would make his explanation then with the view of expediting the Bill.

MR. PUGH said, he wished to say a word with reference to that part of the country (Carmarthenshire) with which he was connected; that was at present uninfected, as were, he was happy to say, ten counties in Wales. All, of course, were for preventing diseased cattle from being brought into the district, but there seemed to be no reason for stopping the free movement of cattle throughout the whole of that uninfected area. In the interesting memorandum published in The Times yesterday on the course of the distemper in the last century, it was stated that then also an attempt was made totally to prohibit the movement of cattle for a limited period, but that it was abandoned on account of the violent opposition which it encountered. He wished that nothing of the kind should happen now; that they should have no occasion to retrace their steps; or to say of any part of the Bill improvidé emanavit. It would be seen from the same memoran-reference not to the meeting to be held todum that in the subsequent outbreaks the safety of the country was sufficiently provided for by the proclamation of infected places, and the prohibition of the removal of cattle from them. He hoped that draw ing a cordon around them or something of the kind might now, or soon, be found to be sufficient. There were other districts similarly situated. It would be a satisfaction to all to know that their case had been considered, though their wishes might not be gratified to the full extent. He would leave the matter in the hands of the Government. All that was wanted was, to relax the stringency of the 21st clause, so as to except the uninfected districts, which could be done when they came to that clause or in a subsequent stage of the proceedings.

COLONEL SYKES said, that on Tuesday last, before the adjournment of the House, he had made a suggestion which he thought it would be well to adopt. It was-That the compensation clauses, which excited much diversity of opinion, should be made into a separate Bill, and that the stamp

THE LORD ADVOCATE said, the explanation which he intended to give had

morrow, but to one which had been held two or three days ago, in which the Scotch Members were unanimously of opinion that tenant-farmers should be associated with the local authorities in working the Bill.

SIR JAMES FERGUSSON said, he would not delay the Committee on any matter which was not of first-rate importance, but to his mind there were some points in the clause which were highly objectionable, and which he would have eliminated. In the first place the tenant-farmers, who were properly disposed to associate with the justices of counties in forming County Boards, and whom it was proposed very justly to associate with the Commissioners of Supply, were to be nominated by the lord-lieutenant. That was not respectful to the tenant-farmers, who were quite as capable of electing their representatives to the Board as the magistrates themselves. In the second place, it was proposed that in case the county authorities should be remiss in enforcing the Act, the Secretary of State, through the sheriff of the county, should have power to do so.

Now, there was no reason whatever to in- | in the clause should be "not less than four, troduce a provison which contemplated that nor more than fifteen.' the local authorities would not do their duty. Amendment agreed to. No provision of the kind had been introduced with regard to England, and it was equally unnecessary with respect to Scot

land.

SIR JAMES FERGUSSON said, he desired to draw attention to the omission of any qualification for the tenant-farmers who were to be nominated by the Lord Lieutenant. He would move an Amendment to insert the words "valued in the valuation roll in force for the time at £100 a year or upwards."

LORD HENRY SCOTT said, he would recommend the postponement of the clause until after the meeting to be held to-morrow, as it involved questions of great importance. LORD ELCHO said, that as it was desirable that the measure should be proceeded with without delay, this clause, which ap-sented to the proposed change. plied only to Scotland, and was likely to raise some discussion among Scotch Members, should be postponed.

MR. BAILLIE COCHRANE said, he did not see how the postponement of the clause would expedite the progress of the Bill.

SIR ANDREW AGNEW said, that celerity was the object which they had in view, and he did not see how it was possible in a short time to get tenants to hold mass meetings to elect representatives.

THE LORD ADVOCATE said, that it was the universal opinion on this subject that whatever was to be done should be done without the slightest delay. Now, the tenant-farmers of Scotland were not a legally-constituted body, and if they were to elect the members of the County Board, providing the machinery for that election would cause much loss of time. He therefore thought it would be better to leave the election of the Board to the Lords Lieutenant and Commissioners of Supply. With regard to the latter part of the clause, he had no desire to retain it if the feeling of the Committee was against it.

MR. CUMMING-BRUCE said, he should support the Amendment. The election of the County Board ought to be left in the hands of the tenant-farmers, who were the persons interested, and not intrusted to the Lords Lieutenant, whose appointments were based on purely political grounds.

Amendment negatived.

SIR EDWARD COLEBROOKE said, he wished to ask the Lord Advocate what number of persons the proposed County Boards were to consist of?

THE LORD ADVOCATE: Not less than four, nor more than ten.

SIR EDWARD COLEBROOKE said, he thought that the numbers proposed were, especially for large counties, too small. He moved, as an Amendment, that the words

VOL. CLXXXI. [THIRD SERIES.]

THE LORD ADVOCATE said, he con

Amendment agreed to.

MR. DUNLOP moved that the sheriff of the county should form part of the Local Board.

Amendment agreed to.

MR. CARNEGIE moved the insertion of words making "Lord Lieutenant and the convener of the county ex officio members of the Local Board."

Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD ADVOCATE moved the omission of the words at the end of the clause empowering the Home Secretary to nominate the persons to carry out the Act in Scotland, in case the Lord Lieutenant or Commissioners of Supply neglect to do so.

Amendment agreed to.

SIR JAMES FERGUSSON moved an addition to the clause, giving the local authorities of counties power over all the boroughs within their respective counties, except as to compensation-that being left to the boroughs. He proposed to exempt Glasgow and Edinburgh. The great number of local jurisdictions in the counties had been the great difficulty in putting the Orders in Council into execution. Any disputes arising should be left to the arbitration of the sheriff, whose decision should be final.

The LORD ADVOCATE said, he could not agree to the Amendment. The clause was framed like the similar clause relating to England. If the burghs were to be legislated for by the County Board, it would be necessary for them to be represented at the Board.

COLONEL SYKES said, that if Edinburgh and Glasgow were to be exempted, he should claim a similar exemption for Aberdeen.

S

SIR JAMES FERGUSSON said, that unless his Amendment were agreed to, it would be possible for the boroughs to neglect carrying out the regulations. In some of the Scotch boroughs the Orders in Council and those of the county local authorities had been set at naught. If the Government objected to his Amendment in its present shape, he would suggest that the chief magistrate in the boroughs should be associated with the county authorities.

MR. CUMMING-BRUCE said, he hoped that the Amendment would be accepted; although he admitted that, if Edinburgh and Glasgow were exempted, Aberdeen, Dundee, and one or two other of the larger towns should enjoy a similar exemption.

SIR ANDREW AGNEW said, he trusted that the operation of the Bill would not be frustrated by the clashing of the local authorities. He thought that the Lord Advocate might frame a proviso that would meet the wishes of the hon. Member for Ayrshire.

sary that the local authorities in the various counties should be at once constituted without delay under the Act, in order to be in readiness to carry out its provisions, and it might so happen that in certain counties the justices might altogether object to the Act being brought into operation there. He would, therefore, suggest that the clause should be made imperative in its language, and instead of beginning with the words " any two or more justices may," should commence thus:-"The Clerk of the Peace in every county in England and Wales shall be and hereby is required to summon a General Sessions," &c. The effect of that would be to have the proper local authority constituted at once in every county.

SIR GEORGE GREY said, the object of the clause was to facilitate the meeting of a general sessions without delay where the quarter sessions have not been adjourned, and to obviate the inconvenience arising from the necessity of giving a lengthened SIR EDWARD COLEBROOKE said, notice. He had addressed a letter to the that if the Government would adopt the sug-chairmen of quarter sessions, pointing gestion of the right hon. Member for Calne (Mr. Lowe) and define the powers to be exercised, then these discretionary powers would not be required; but if the Bill were to remain in its present shape, the Amendment of the hon. Baronet would defeat the whole object of the Bill. Amendment put, and negatived. Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 6 (Power to assemble General Sessions).

[cl. 5.]

MR. ADDERLEY said, there appeared to be an intentional omission in this clause. By the clause it would appear that the justices would have power to convene a general sessions at any time. What he would pro pose was, that it should be confined to the first convening of the sessions, they having power to adjourn from time to time. The object of the Bill was simplification; but he was afraid confusion would be increased if general sessions could be convened by any two justices, each session acting independently and antagonistic to the other.

SIR FITZROY KELLY said, the clause ran thus

"Any two or more Justices of a County may, by writing under their hands, require the Clerk of the Peace to summon a General Sessions of the Justices of the County for the purpose of carrying into effect the provisions of this Act."

Now, he apprehended it was quite neces-
Colonel Sykes

out the expediency of adjourning for short periods, and in many cases they had done that. Where that was so, it was not necessary that these general sessions should be convened, because the quarter sessions could meet from time to time. In some counties that had not been done, and in these it was necessary there should be power to convene a general sessions. Perhaps it would be better to provide that where no adjourned sessions was appointed to be held within two or three days from the passing of that Act a general sessions should be convened forthwith. He would prepare a clause which should meet the object of the Amendment.

MR. HUNT said, it would be better to postpone the clause and bring up a fresh one on the Report.

SIR GEORGE GREY said, he would

do so.

MR. HENLEY said, he hoped that care would be taken not to set up two authorities, for as the Bill was now drawn it was very doubtful whether the general sessions and the quarter sessions would not be in existence both together.

MR. WALDEGRAVE-LESLIE suggested that the Secretary of State should insert the words "in England and Wales," so as to make it clear that the provisions should not clash with those of Clause 5.

Clause postponed.

Clause 7 (Power of Local Authority to | facilities to the quarter sessions to discharge form Committee of its own Members and their duties. An hon. Member suggested others). they should have the power of appointing an executive committee. He presumed if it were found necessary to appoint more than one committee rules would be laid down for their guidance, so as to ensure uniformity. He thought this might safely be left to the quarter sessions, but he had no objection to postpone the clause and some of the subsequent clauses, as he thought that they might be discussed to greater advantage when the House had decided what the powers of the local authorities should be.