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and should rest upon a dietinction between | authorities, on the other it would be a most infected and uninfected districts; that there foolish and disastrous course to withdraw should be the most stringent measures for all discretion from these authorities. the former, whilst in the latter the system MR. NEVILLE-GRENVILLE said, should be one which could be carried out that representing one of the largest agriby farmers who had to live by their farms. cultural constituencies in the kingdom (East He wished to make one suggestion. He Somerset), he should be sorry to allow the would strongly advise the Government to Bill to pass into Committee without saying secure for the proper carrying out of the a few words on the subject. He represented provisions of the Bill the co-operation of a large cheesemaking county, and were the practical men through the country. The plague to inflict it, it would perhaps suffer Government should also retain in its hands more than any other county in England. the power of overruling any local autho- It was a county where the most stringent rity which should, from some local feeling, regulations had been carried out. His such as the influence of some crotchetty in experience, however, convinced him that dividual or from any other reason, shrink Government action was decidedly necesfrom doing its duty. He had lately waited sary. However strict were the orders of on the Home Secretary with a deputation quarter sessions, they were found to work from the Royal Agricultural Society and most inconveniently, as they differed mapointed out the wants of the West of Eng. terially from those of the different boroughs land. In that part of England they were in their districts. The very transit of more anxious about the breeding than the cattle by railways created great confusion; feeding of cattle. Indeed, that observation and he had heard farmers say that from applied to the whole of Wales and the West the vexation arising from the different of Scotland ; it was, therefore, important regulations on the one side and the other, that they should have well-guarded means the remedy was almost worse than the of moving cattle to the feeding districts. disease. A farmer within his district had That deputation was in favour of the been recently summoned before the petty scheme proposed by the late Member for sessions on a charge of having transWhitby-namely, that no prohibition gressed the orders of the magistrates. should be placed in the way of sending For his defence the farmer produced the cattle to market, but that no animal should letter which he (Mr. Grenville) would now leave any market alive. The deputation read to the House impressed on the Home Secretary the ne

“Sir,- In reference to your letter of the 18th cessity of making this Order, and the re. I am directed by Sir G. Grey to inform you that ply of the right hon. Gentleman was, “ Why farniers may drive fat cattle to a railway station don't you do that yourselves? you have not situated in their own parish, provided it be full power to do it.' Many of the gentle- the nearest available for the purpose. I am

H. WADDINGTON." men present were not up to that period quite aware of the powers which the Order It thus appeared that the Orders in in Council gave to the local authorities. Council, as expounded by the Secretary of On the day after the interview with the State, differed altogether from those of right hon. Gentleman, he (Mr. Acland) re the magistracy. In the face of such morturned to his county, and induced a Society tifying facts it appeared to him tbat representing six counties to put itself in Government action was highly necessary. communication with the lords-lieutenant and He therefore hailed the Bill before the justices of peace of those counties. They House, not because it contained all that then took certain precautions, the result they wished, but because it showed of wbich was, that while Cornwall was full the Government were in earnest in their of the disease, Devon had almost entirely endeavours to meet the evil, and he sinescaped. A regular cordon was established cerely hoped that the result of the operaround the county as a whole, and round tion of the measure would be as beneficial all infected parishes ; information of the to the country generally as they all desired. state of the disease was continually be. The orders of the quarter sessions difing received; and, in short, precautions fered not only from those of the Privy were taken by the local authorities that it Council, but the construction put upon them would be absurd to expect from any Govern- by the magistrates and their clerks was most ment. He therefore thought that while on conflicting. In his county there had rethe one hand Government ought not to en-cently sprung up a feeling that the time tirely give up their control over the local had come for, to some extent, modifying

Mr. Acland



the very stringent regulations in force to whatever is done should be done quickly. prevent the spread of the cattle disease. There is a general agreement that the At a recent quarter sessions held in the Bill of the Government should be read a county, a discussion took place with re- second time—the Government taking the ference to this subject. But the chairman, same

in regard to the Bill of Sir William Miles, a gentleman who had the hon. Member for Northamptonshire for many years sat in the House of Com--the point of difference between us bemons, expressed his opinion in favour of ing one which can be efficiently dealt maintaining untouched the regulations at with in Committee, and on which we shall present in force, and read memorials sup- be glad to have the opinion of the House. porting his view of the case from the two Therefore, I shall refrain from making largest unions in the county. At the same any reply to the criticizm of the hon. time memorials, urging that the present Member for Northamptonshire on this Bill, regulations should be modified, were read and shall likewise refrain from offering from seven unions in the county. Before any criticizm on his Bill. The debate, resuming his seat, he wished to make a according to the rule of the House, must remark with reference to the subject of stop at a quarter before six o'clock; and compensation. From the manner in which I hope, therefore, that hon. Gentlemen this subject had been treated by some hon. will allow the two Bills to be read a second Members, one would think that the far- time, in order to fix the Committee for tomers and stockowners when asking for morrow, compensation were asking for relief from MR. LIDDELL said, that considering 8 misfortune which had fallen upon them the great importance of the Bill, he would in the ordinary course of things. Now suggest that there should be a morning that view of the case would be quite cor- sitting to-morrow. rect if the agriculturists asked for com- Tue CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEpensation for cattle that died of disease. QUER said, that if at such very short But it was one thing to have an animal notice the House determined on having die of disease and another to have a a morning sitting to-morrow, many hon. Government officer come into a man's Members might be prevented from atshed and nolens volens knock his cow on tending. Should the Bill not make rapid the head. It was said that farmers ask- progress in Committee, he would consiing for relief under such circumstances der the propriety of having a morning was similar to a merchant's asking Govern- sitting. ment for relief if his vessel were shipwrecked. Now, if a man's vessel were

Motion agreed to :-Bill read a second shipwrecked it was quite true that he had time, and committed for To-morrow. no right to look for relief to Government, Then the CATTLE PLAQUE BILL [Bill 7] but it would be a very different matter if read a second time, and committed for Toa Government officer went on board a ves. sel, scuttled it, and sent it to the bottom.

SUPPLY. A good deal had also been said about the manner of raising the fund for compensa

Resolution, " That a Supply be granted tion. Now he objected to the 58. head to Her Majesty,” reported, and agreed to, money on cattle. There was not, he be- Nemine Contradicente. lieved, a union in the county which had not SUPPLY – Committee appointed for established its own assurance company, Friday. the subscribers to which were obliged to pay 58. a head on their cattle. It would,

House adjourned at half therefore, be a hard case to increase the

after Five o'clock, liability of those gentlemen to 10s. & head. He trusted that this Bill would be agreed to, and that no measure would be brought forward to encourage the destruction of calves, which would inflict lasting

HOUSE OF LORDS, evils upon the country. SIR GEORGE GREY : On one point

Thursday, February 15, 1866. the House is unanimous, whatever difference of opinion exists respecting the Bills MINUTES.1-Several Lords took the Oath.

The Lord Petre took the Oath prescribed by the that have been introduced that is that

Act 10 Geo, IV.


well as the number detained, and the cause CATTLE PLAGUE QUESTION.

of their detention, from the 3rd of DeMOTION FOR PAPERS.

cember until the 15th of January inSeveral Petitions presented.

clusive. During that time 976 animals LORD CAMPBELL inquired, Whether it had been landed from Hamburg, Gottenis the intention of the Government, upon burg, Rotterdam, or Boulogne, and ninetyfurther consideration, to give effect to the one of them had been detained. Five of suggestion made to them on Tuesday last those detained were kept back because by a noble Earl (the Earl of Derby) to the they were injured; one because it had effect that, with a view of insuring more

cancer in the head; and the remaining immediate action, Resolutions should be eighty-five had eczema. He had inquired submitted to both Houses of Parliament, what eczema was, and had been informed and as soon as these were adopted, that from good authority that it was what was Orders in Council based upon them should commonly termed foot and mouth disease, be issued ?

a disease which is very well known to all EARL GRANVILLE: I am not aware agriculturists to be one of the most infecof anything that has occurred since the tious and most injurious diseases to horned discussion of Thursday last that would cattle, though not necessarily destructive induce the Government to proceed by way

to life. The largest number of catile of Resolution. As far as I am aware, landed at these wharves from any one from what has occurred in another place, ship during that time was 346 from there seems to be a very general concur. Rotterdam on the 15th of December. rence of opinion in favour of proceeding by His informant further ascertained that Bill; and, without agreeing with the Go of a cargo of thirty-six beasts brought vernment measure in every particular, that from Hamburg by the ship Castro whatever is done in that way should be fourteen were slaughtered at the point of done as quickly as possible. At no dis- disembarcation, because they had eczema, tant date, therefore, I hope to be able to but the meat was certified to be fit for lay the measure itself before your Lord- human food. And the whole of a cargo ships. We are dealing with the subject of thirty-three beasts landed from the ship as promptly as possible, and as several Planet, from Hamburg, on the 15th of important points are raised by the new January, were slaughtered because they Bill my answer must be that iť is not the had the same disease; but they were ali, intention of the Government to anticipate with one exception, passed as fit for the introduction of the measure to your

human food. The animal excepted was Lordships by moving Resolutions in both condemned, not because it had eczema, Houses of Parliament.

but because of “general decay." The THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY, in compiler of the Returns then concluded as moving for certain Returns relating to the follows: importation of cattle into the ports of “ Being referred to the inspector's clerk to the Liverpool, London, and Hull, said, it Custom House for further information, I attended would be in the recollection of their there and saw Colonel Grey and Mr. Hood (Chief Lordships that in the course of a discus. I calling for full details for December and Janu

Comptroller). The latter wrote to the inspector sion which took place on the subject two ary, of every case of disease arriving at port. or three days ago, he had mentioned that the bearer of the letter, on his return, said that a large number of diseased cattle were the clerk on perusing the letter, intimated that suffered to come into the market, and that he should not send the information. Mr. Hood his noble Friend opposite (Earl Granville) write to Mr. Nicholson with the details.”

then promised to compel him to do so, and to had said that he could give no information beyond the fact that very strict orders had He thought the House should be made been issued upon the subject. Under these acquainted with the strict instructions the circumstances, he (the Marquess of Salis. Government had issued, and should be inbury) had caused inquires to be made in formed whether or not diseased cattle were the neighbourhood of Blackwall with a

allowed under any circumstances to come view to obtain some information with re- into the London market, and he would spect to the condition of cattle landed therefore move for Returns to that effect. there from abroad. The person he sent

Address moved forhad furnished him with a statement of the number of cattle landed at Brown's and jesty's Customs with reference to the Prevention

Copy of the lustructions given to ller Mathe Brunswick Wharves, Blackwall, as of the Importation of diseased Cattle :


“ Returns of the Number of Cattle landed at the same time. This was the more necesthe Ports of Liverpool, London, and Hull, with the Numbers detained, and Cause of Detention, in sary inasmuch as the orders agreed to by the Month of Decomber 1865 and January 1866." the magistrates in quarter sessions had -(The Marquess of Salisbury.)

appeared in the county newspapers; but he

did not believe that the same publicity had EARL GRANVILLE, in assenting to been given to the notices issued by the the production of the Returns, remarked borough mayors and magistrates. that as the application made to the clerk

Earl GRANVILLE was understood to referred to was somewhat irregular, he


that the orders would be extremely was not surprised to hear that he had de voluminous, and he hoped that an analysis clined to give the information required of would satisfy the noble Duke. him.

THE DUKE OF MARLBOROUGH thought Motion agreed to.

the production of the orders in quarter

sessions in extenso was desirable ; though PRISONS ACT (1865).

the analysis of the orders in boroughs would, he believed, be quite sufficient.

THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH said, THE EABL OF CARNARVON said, he that if any difficulty prevented the Returns had endeavoured upon a previous occasion being made in extenso, it was at all events to gain some information with reference to very desirable that their Lordships should the conduct of prisons. In reply he was have the analysis. requested to move for certain Returns.

Motion amended, and agreed to. He did not think they would supply him with the information he desired, but he

Address forhad no objection to move for them, and if “Copies of all Orders made by Courts of Quarthe result were not satisfactory he would ter Sessions and by the local Authorities in Cities make his inquiry of Her Majesty's Govern. relative to the Cattle Plague since the Order in

and Municipal Boroughs in England and Wales ment again. He therefore begged leave to Council of 16th December, 1865, and an Analysis move, in terms of his notice, an Address of the said Orders ; and a Copy of a Letter from for

the Secretary of State to the Chairmen of Quarter

Sessions relative to the said Order in Council : “Copies of Letters addressed by the Secretary And the like Return and Analysis for Scotland as of State for the Home Department to Chairmen of respects Orders made in Quarter or General SesQuarter Sessions of Counties and Mayors of Bo-sions, or by the local Authorities of Burghs or roughs : And,

Downs having a Town Council.”—(The Duke of Of Correspondence with the Inspectors of Marlborough.) Prisons on the subject of carrying into effect the Provisions of the Prisons Act, 1866.(The Earl

House adjourned at a quarter before of Carnarvon.)

Šix o'clock, till To-morrow, Motion agreed to.

half past Ten o'clock.




HOUSE OF COMMONS, moving for papers, according to notice, Thursday, February 15, 1866. said, he thought that the discussion which would take place in their Lordships' House MINUTES.)-Select COMMITTEE On Mines upon the reading of the Bill upon the appointed. cattle plague would be much facilitated Public Bills—Ordered—Jamaica Government *; by the production of the Returns for which

Court of Chancery (Ireland) * ; Common Law

Courts (Ireland). he asked. The noble Duke then moved an Firsi Reading Jamaica Government [17] ; Address for

Common Law Courts (Ireland)* [18]; Court “Copies of all Orders made by Courts of Quarter

of Chancery (Ireland)* [19]. Sessions relative to the Cattle Plague since the Second Reading, National Debt Reduction Order in Council of 16th December, 1865 ; and for

[4]; Savings Banks and Post Office Saviags a Copy of a Letter from the Secretary of State to

Banks [5]; Pensions * [8]. the Chairmen of Quarter Sessions relative to the Committee-Cattle Diseases * [6] [R.P.] said Order." The EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH said,

INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS – STATUTE he thought it would be desirable to have the

24 & 25 VICT. c. 113.-QUESTION. orders issued by the mayors and magis- MR. LIDDELL asked the Secretary of trates in the various boroughs produced at State for the Home Department, Whether it is the intention of the Government to or mate should bave a full opportunity of propose to continue the Act 24 & 25 Vict. being heard either by himself or counsel. c. 113, relating to Industrial Schools, which Mr. Traill had pointed out to him that expires on the 1st day of January next? there would be great practical inconve

SIR GEORGE GREY replied that it nience of various kinds if an inquiry into was the intention of the Government to the cause of a wreck, instituted with the propose the continuance of the Act in ques. view of enabling all concerned to provide tion.

remedies against similar casualties, such

as improved construction of ships, correcFOUNDERING OF THE “ LONDON."

tion of charts, new lighthouses, and the

like, should be made an opportunity for QUESTION.

interested parties to anticipate proceedSIR JOHN PAKINGTON asked the ings, which ought more properly to take President of the Board of Trade, Whether place in an ordinary court of law. it is true that a counsel retained by the SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, as it friends of some of the passengers lost in seemed to him impossible that the public the London to attend the inquiry into the would be contented as respected the safety causes which led to the foundering of that of passengers with the answer of the right ship, retired from the investigation because hon. Gentleman, he gave notice that on a he was not permitted to cross-examine the future day he would call the attention of witnesses; and, if so, what steps have been the House to the subject. taken by the Board of Trade to elicit by an inquiry the whole facts so connected

SEWAGE OF TOWNS.-QUESTION. with that melancholy event ? MR. MILNER GIBSON said, it was

MR. SCHREIBER asked the Secretary true that a learned gentleman who appeared of State for the Home Department, Wheon behalf of the relatives of some of the ther it is the intention of Her Majesty's persons who perished in the London was Government to propose, early in the prerefused permission to cross-examine the sent Session, any additional legislation witnesses who were examined at the in- with regard to the Sewage of large towns ? quiry. Mr. Traill, the presiding magis

Sir GEORGE GREY said, that the trate, refused that permission in order that Goveronient did not entertain any such the inquiry might be conducted according intention ; for this reason—in the course to the provisions of the Act of Parliament. of last Session an Act was passed giving The form of the investigation into cases of municipal and local authorities power to shipwreck, which was ordered by the Board acquire land, and other facilities in reof Trade under the Merchant Shipping Act, spect of sewage, and a Commission was was prescribed by the Act; and under it also appointed to inquire into the state of a person was specially appointed to conduct rivers in the United Kingdom including the inquiry. Mr. Traill, therefore, thought the effect on them of sewage of towns. that the inquiry into the loss of the London Until some experience had been obtained of should be conducted strictly in conformity the operation of that Act, and until a Rewith the Act; but in the exercise of his port had been received from the Commisdiscretion had he allowed counsel to appear sion, the Government did not think it on behalf of the relatives of persons who expedient to propose any further legislahad perished he would have caused long tion on the subject. delay, and might have unnecessarily prejudiced rights and liability which were

THE CATTLE PLAGUE (IRELAND). per to be determined in a court of law.

QUESTION. As some misconception prevailed on the COLONEL FORDE asked the Secretary subject he wished to state that no deci. of State for the Home Department, Whesion was come to in these inquiries which ther any general orders have been issued affected the rights or liabilities of any one, by the Irish Government to the Constabuand that no one had a right or claim to be lary and Revenue authorities, requiring heard except the captain or mate, who them to inspect all vessels arriving at any might be deprived of his certificate. If it place on the Irish coast, with a view to appeared during the inquiry that the ship enforcing the Orders in Council probibiting was lost through default on the part of the the importation of cattle and sheep? Thie captain or mate, it was provided by a clause hon. and gallant Member said there were in the Act that in such a case such captain reports in the north of Ireland that cattle

Mr. Liddell

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