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the paragraph in the Address, they would minds are yet sore and sensitive with the not, if examined in the spirit of political recollection of former wrongs. They would, prudence, be pronounced to be either in moreover, create little confidence, convey the right place, or set forth at the right little comfort, and only tend to bring into time. I fully understand the anxiety of difficulty and to hamper the body by which Irish Members who come to us and say they were made. Now, Sir, what I subthat in looking at an evil so portentous as mit is this. There are some of these Fenianism you must not be content with questions already in motion; there are that view. But, Sir, having said that, and others of them which it is the intention, or having strongly and clearly, or at least as may be the intention, of Members represtrongly and clearly as I can, asserted our senting various constituencies to bring under duty of confining ourselves in the Address the consideration of the House. Let the we propose to present, to the denunciation Government be judged upon each of these of this great and monstrous evil, I fully questions as it arises, in the spirit in which understand the anxiety of Irish Members it attempts to deal with them. I have who come to us and say, that in looking at been asked whether we approve the lana phenomenon so portentous as Fenianism, guage which has been used by the repreyou must not be content with that view of sentatives of the Government in Ireland in it which has exclusive reference to the respect to their general views and prinmeans of repression. It is invariably true ciples as to the way in which the administhat in such cases as that which we are tration in that country should be carried considering the guilt does not all lie on on. Not being cognizant of the precise one side and the reason and right on the terms of that language, it is impossible to other; but that mixed motives and mixed give a categorical reply; but I may say considerations are to be found upon both that my noble Friend and my right hon. sides. It may be that we should more Friend, who represent the Government in properly look not so much for the cause; Ireland, have been chosen by Her Majesty but, as I once heard it expressed with re- to represent it on the ground that the ference to another great case of discon- principles on which we know they are pretent to the causes of that cause- -to pared to act, and therefore the language that which is removed from Fenianism by in which we should expect them to speak, many links perhaps ; and it may be that are the principles and are the language by these causes would form a proper and le- which we wish ourselves to be represented gitimate subject for the consideration of to the people of Ireland. Sir, our first Parliament. Sir, the representatives of duty is to condemn the folly, the madness, Irish constituencies have not shrunk from and the deep guilt of this conspiracy. I stating in this debate the subjects to which respect the sentiment, for I see it to be a they, or some of them, think it right that sentiment of high honour, which has prethe attention of Parliament should be di- vented the hon. Member for Tralee from rected, with a view to improving the state saying he joins in the emphatic conof Ireland. We have heard of the questions demnation of Fenianism. I am certain of the University, of National Education, it is not because he does not condemn of the Established Church, of the reclama- it; but, at the same time, I feel that tion of waste land, of the tax on absentees, of tenant-right, of loans, of railways, and of general measures for promoting the material prosperity of Ireland. The noble Lord the Member for Cockermouth (Lord Naas) has given a fair description of these subjects. Taken in the mass, he says they are fair questions for the consideration of Parliament. I suppose he does not mean to pledge himself by any means to the practicable character of each and all of those subjects. It would be impossible for Parliament to venture upon making promises with regard to them. Vague promises, general comprehensive and sweeping promises, would result in infinite difficulty, especially when addressed to people whose

the more clear, distinct, and unequivocal our language on the subject is, not only the better do we discharge our duty to the Throne, to the law, and to our constituents, but the greater mercy we show to the deluded persons who are at once the agents and the victims of this conspiracy. But, Sir, having said this, I concur with those who say that the existence, and the emerging from a conspiracy like this, so far from taking away any duty, any obligation of the Legislature and the Government to examine into Irish evils, with a sincere desire to improve the condition of the country, on the contrary, raises that obligation to its highest point. Nor is that merely in deference to the

be made in favour of class, party, or place in that country, but to the whole of that country alike. But, Sir, there are many other questions in regard to which, in England, in Scotland, in Ireland, that interest which is English, Scotch, or Irish respectively predominates over that which is common. Those are the questions which, when they relate to Ireland, I apprehend we ought commonly to call Irish questions. With respect to all the questions that fall into that category, we ought of course to apply to Ireland the same principles on which we act in the other countries, not making the opinion of the one country overrule the opinions and settle the questions belonging to the others, but dealing with the subjects and the interests of each as nearly as we can in accordance with the views and sentiments of the natives of that country. Sir, I hope, therefore, that while this House will avoid 'giving forth to the world vague promises capable of misapprehension, I also hope that as each subject connected with the condition of Ireland comes before us, we shall be able to treat it, if it be specifically Irish, with a special view to Irish objects and interests. I say this whether the questions may lie in the sphere especially of the mind and the feel

dictates of political expediency, and the obvious necessity of avoiding the mischief consequent upon the existence of such a conspiracy. It is due from us also, in acknowledgment and in gratitude for the strong and genuine Irish sentiment which has been developed upon this painful and critical-but yet, perhaps, in some respects beneficial-occasion, which has given to the law, and to the representatives of the law, a strength such as in that country they never before enjoyed. The noble Lord the Member for Cockermouth (Lord Naas), and other hon. Members, have enumerated the great results which have been attained to Ireland, by Irish Members making their appeal on the subject of the welfare of their country to the Imperial Parliament. If those great works of improvement which have been already performed have now re-acted beneficially upon Ireland in such a way as to marshal on our side more than ever before was known all the best sentiment, conviction, and intelligence of the country, that I say is at once the greatest of all encouragements, and the highest of all obligations, to lead us to persevere in the carrying forward of such works. Sir, for my own part, I can only beg to say that which I have often presumed to sayings of men, as do those connected with in this House. We are an united people, education and religion, or whether they with a common Government, and a com- may refer to political arrangements or plete political incorporation. But we are social arrangements; or whether they may also an united kingdom made up of three refer to that other class of subjects well nations, of three countries welded politi- worthy, indeed, of the attention of Parliacally into one, but necessarily and in fact ment which are connected with the mawith many distinctions of law, of usage, of terial prosperity of Ireland. And I frankly character, of history, and of religion. In own I cling to the hope, though quite uncircumstances such as these there are com- able to define the precise extent or even mon questions which must be administered the precise manner in which Parliament upon principles common to the whole Em- may be able to realize that hope, that it pire-all those questions in which the in- may be possible for England to do hereterests of the whole overbear and swallow after that which she has often done before, up the interests of the part. The com- to assist with a liberal hand, perhaps, under position of the Government must be deter-improved circumstances, and with views mined, not by domicile or birthplace, but by the competence of those who are chosen to fill offices of State. The levying of taxes and the administration of the public revenue must, it is obvious, be governed by principles applicable to the three kingdoms alike-alike as a general rule, subject, possibly, in certain cases, to exception. But, if there be exceptions, they should be well defined as exceptions, they should be thoroughly understood by the three kingdoms as exceptions; and, above all, if there are exceptions made in behalf of one particular country, they should not The Chancellor of the Exchequer

matured by experience, to promote the development of that material prosperity. It is in that way we can best hope to attain the object well described by the hon. Member for Cork (Mr. Maguire) to-night, when he said that it is our duty to destroy the trade of the conspirator. It is our duty to restrain and to repress his acts, strongly to denounce them in their character and their tendency; but it is our duty above all, if we can, to destroy his trade, pursuing that system of practical legislation by which, as has been observed, so much progress has already been made rallying on

the side of the law and the Government all the same question. It was exceedingly the best sentiments and feelings of the desirable that the House should not run country, by which we hope to contribute any risk of the postponement of that subalike to its welfare, and to the credit, and ject; but as the Report of the Address must the honour, and the dignity of the British be brought up the day after the debate Empire. was concluded, there would be no security against the cattle plague question being thrown over if the present debate were adjourned. Upon that ground he would suggest that the Address should be allowed to pass, and then a full opportunity would be afforded to raise discussion upon it on the Report to-morrow (this day).

THE O'DONOGHUE said, he had been urged by many of his hon. Friends to withdraw the Amendment, and to add the words to, instead of substituting them for, the paragraph in the Address. He wished, therefore, to withdraw the Amendment.

MR. SPEAKER said, that the Amendment was in possession of the House, and that it was for the House to decide whether they would grant permission to the hon. Gentleman to make the change he proposed. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment proposed,

To add, at the end of the same paragraph, the words "Humbly to express our deep regret to Her Majesty that wide-spread disaffection exists in Ireland, and humbly to represent to Her Majesty that this wide-spread disaffection is the result of grave causes, which it is the duty of Her Majesty's Ministers to examine into and remove."-The O'Donoghue.)

Question put,

there added."

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, that he would assent to that course.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.
Original Question put, and agreed to.

Committee appointed, to draw up an Address
to be presented to Her Majesty upon the said
Resolution ;-Lord FREDERICK CAVENDISH, Mr.
GRAHAM, Mr. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
Sir GEORGE GREY, Mr. SECRETARY CARDWell, Sir
CHARLES WOOD, Mr. MILNER GIBSON, Mr. VIL.
LIERS, Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL, Mr. SOLICITOR
GENERAL, Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL for IRELand,
The LORD ADVOCATE, and Mr. CHILDERS, or any
"That those words be Three of them :-To withdraw immediately :-
Queen's Speech referred.

The House divided :—Ayes 25; Noes

346: Majority 321.

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON rose to move

the adjournment of the debate.

Al

NATIONAL DEBTS ACTS.
RESOLUTIONS IN COMMITTEE.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCIE

though it had occupied the unusual period QUER said, he moved that the Speaker of two nights, the House had only touched leave the Chair, in order that he might upon two subjects; but there was a ques-submit to the House preliminary Resolution more important than either of them tions for bringing in two Bills founded on which had not yet been referred to- principles which had obtained universal apnamely, the subject of Parliamentary Re-proval. The first of them aimed at the form, concerning which they had had no extinction of two small funds which beinformation from Her Majesty's Government. He therefore thought it desirable they should adjourn the debate until tomorrow night.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Debate be now adjourned."

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, the Government had no desire to avoid discussion upon all the points of the Speech; but they stood in a peculiar position. His right hon. Friend (Sir George Grey) had given notice of a Bill upon the subject of the cattle plague for Monday, and another hon. Member (Mr. Hunt) had likewise expressed his intention of raising

longed to the old Sinking Fund, which was cancelled by Parliament forty years ago. The other fund arose from the interest on unclaimed stock and unappropriated dividends. He also proposed, in connection with the Post Office savings banks, to pass a Resolution for the confirmation of permanent annuities, according to a plan peculiarly accepted by Parliament, at first in a formal manner, and which had the effect of contributing to defray the charges. of the National Debt by a sum which exceeded £100,000 a year. By this means it was proposed to create £5,000,000 of stock, and the plan would operate advantageously on the annual charges of the country, and that was an operation to be

extended as much as circumstances would the constitutional form of the Exchequer permit.

Motion agreed to.

Acts considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That it is expedient to amend the Laws relating to unclaimed Stock and Dividends and to Donations and Bequests, and to grant powers for cancelling certain perpetual Stocks of Annuities standing in the names of the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt and Bequests; and to make provision, out of the Consolidated Fund, for any charge which shall arise in consequence of the said unclaimed Stock having been so cancelled.

on account of unclaimed Stock and of Donations

Resolution to be reported To-morrow.

Resolved, That it is expedient to amend the Laws relating to the investments for Savings Banks and for Post Office Savings Banks, and to grant powers for the conversion of certain perpetual Government Annuities standing in the names of the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt on account of the Fund for the Banks for Savings, and also on account of the Post Office Savings Bank Fund, into certain other Stocks and Annuities; and to provide for due payment thereof out of the Consolidated Fund.

Resolution to be reported To-morrow.

EXCHEQUER AND AUDIT DEPART-
MENTS.

BILL PRESENTED. FIRST READING

check, but to introduce harmony into all
proceedings subsequent to that operation
so as to get rid of a great deal of unne-
cessary and expensive book-keeping now
carried on.
The third and most important

which arose last year out of Mr. Edmunds'
object was this. During the discussion
case, it became known to Parliament much
more fully than had formerly been the case,
that there were many branches of public
receipt and expenditure that were not sub-
jected to audit, and that the whole system
of audit was in a most unsatisfactory state.
Some of the expenditure was audited by
the Audit Board, which was quite right;
some of it by the Treasury, which was
partment for controlling, and not auditing,
quite wrong, for the Treasury was a de-
the expenditure; and, lastly, a good deal
of it was not audited at all. The Govern-
ment proposed to substitute for that three-
fold irregular and anomalous method of
proceeding an uniform method, by which
the whole of the expenditure should be
audited by the proper department appointed
for the purpose-namely, the Audit Board.
The appropriation audit would therefore
be carried throughout the whole of the
public expenditure.

Bill to consolidate the duties of the Exchequer and Audit Departments, to regulate the receipt, vide for the audit of the accounts thereof, ordered custody, and issue of Public Monies, and to proto be brought in by Mr. CHANCELLOR of the ExCHEQUER and Mr. CHILDERS.

Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 3.]

MR. BOUVERIE said, that the system of audit had hitherto not been satisfactory. The ancient system had become obsolete, THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE- and lately had, in fact, been no check at QUER presented a Bill to consolidate the all. Under these circumstances, he beduties of the Exchequer and Audit Depart-lieved that the Bill now introduced would ments, to regulate the receipt, custody, and effect a very great improvement. issue of public monies, and to provide for Motion agreed to. the audit of the accounts thereof. He said, the course he proposed to take with regard to the Bill was to introduce it that night, and in consideration of its importance to allow a fortnight to elapse before he moved the second reading. He should next propose to refer it to the Select Committee on Public Accounts; and, as it was a Bill almost entirely relating to public accounts, it would receive a more impartial, authoritative, and searching examination before that Committee than it would in other way. The object of the Bill was, first of all, to consolidate the departments of Ex-sidered in Committee. chequer and Audit, while the personal functions of the Controller of the Exchequer would not be interfered with. The next object of the Bill was to apply to what was called the Exchequer check the principles of modifications recommended by the very important Committee on Public Monies which sat some years ago, so as to preserve

any

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

QUALIFICATION FOR OFFICES

ABOLITION.

RESOLUTION IN COMMITTEE.

FIRST READING. Qualification for Offices Abolition-Con

(In the Committee.)

Moved, That the Chairman be directed to move the House that leave be given to bring in a Bill to render it unnecessary to make and subscribe certain declarations as a Qualification for Offices and Employments; to indemnify such persons as Employment; and for other purposes relating have omitted to qualify themselves for Office and thereto.-(Mr. Hadfield.)

MR. NEWDEGATE said, he must | Motions made by Members of this House:"—Mr. express his regret that the hon. Mem- BONHAM-CARTER, Sir JOHN PAKINGTON, Mr. WALber for Sheffield thought it necessary Mr. GASKELL, Sir STAFFORD NORTHCOTE, The POLE, Mr. HENLEY, Mr. SECRETARY CARDWELL, to moot this question again; but he hoped O'CONOR DON, Mr. HASTINGS RUSSELL, and Mr. the hon. Member, as he proposed the CHILDERS :-Three to be the quorum. Bill in his capacity as an independent Member, would name the second reading for a Wednesday. When the second reading came on he should move that it be read a second time that day six months. The Bill had been several times rejected by the House of Lords, and carried in that House by very small majorities.

MR. HADFIELD said, he must remind the hon. Member that he had been invited to serve on the Select Committee to which the previous Bill had been referred, and that he had declined. The principle of the Bill had already been six times assented to by the House, and sought merely to repeal a qualification which had never been enforced. A noble Earl in another place (the Earl of Derby), had declared that the declaration, which had never been enforced for thirty-eight years, was not worth the paper on which it was written. He (Mr. Hadfield) was averse to having the second reading for a Wednesday, as he desired the Members of the Government to be present.

MR. NEWDEGATE said, that he had

declined to act on the Committee, because

he felt confident that it would find that which they did find-namely, that the Bill consisted entirely of principle, and that, with effect, they could not alter one word of the Bill. The explanation as to the majority on the previous Bill lay in the fact that the measure was brought on for third reading at so late an hour that its opponents were taken by surprise.

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REIGATE ELECTION.

Petition of Electors, complaining of that Elec

tion [App. 8]; referred to the General Committee of Elections, and Mr. Speaker to issue his Warrants for persons, papers, and records.

House adjourned at a quarter before One o'clock,

HOUSE OF LORDS,

Friday, February 9, 1866.

MINUTES.]-Several Lords took the Oath.

ROLL OF THE LORDS.

The Lord Chancellor acquainted the House, That the Clerk of the Parliaments had prepared and laid it on the Table.

The same was Ordered to be printed. (No. 3.)

HER MAJESTY'S ANSWER TO THE

ADDRESS.

HER MAJESTY'S Answer to the Address, reported as follows:

"My Lords,

"I THANK you for your loyal and dutiful Address, and for the renewed Assurance of your affectionate Interest in every Event which tends to increase the domestic

Happiness of Myself and My Family.

"I FEEL confident that the various Measures, which will be submitted to you, to improve the Law and promote the Welfare of My People, will receive your earnest and careful Consideration."

IRELAND-PAY OF THE CONSTABU-
LARY.-QUESTION.

In reply to a Question of The Earl of
LEITRIM,

Select Committee appointed, to "assist Mr. Speaker in all matters which relate to the PrintEARL RUSSELL said, that there had ing executed by Order of this House, and for the purpose of selecting and arranging for Printing, been no Royal Commission inquiring into the Returns and Papers presented in pursuance of subject of the Irish police; but, as a question

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