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the paragraph in the Address, they would minds are yet sore and sensitive with the not, if examined in the spirit of political recollection of former wrongs. They would, prudence, be pronounced to be either in moreover, create little confidence, convey the right place, or set forth at the right little comfort, and only tend to bring into time. I fully understand the anxiety of difficulty and to hamper the body by which Irish Members who come to us and say they were made. Now, Sir, what I subthat in looking at an evil so portentous as mit is this. There are some of these Fenianism you must not be content with questions already in motion ; there are that view. But, Sir, having said that, and others of them which it is the intention, or haring strongly and clearly, or at least as may be the intention, of Members represtrongly and clearly as I can, asserted our senting various constituencies to bring under duty of confining ourselves in the Address the consideration of the House. Let the we propose to present, to the denunciation Government be judged upon each of these of this great and monstrous evil, 1 fully questions as it arises, in the spirit in which understand the anxiety of Irish Members it attempts to deal with them. I have who come to us and say, that iu looking at been asked whether we approve the lana phenomenon so portentous as Fenianism, guage which has been used by the repreyou must not be content with that view of sentatives of the Government in Ireland in it which has exclusive reference to the respect to their general views and prinmeans of repression. It is invariably true ciples as to the way in which the administhat in such cases as that which we are tration in that country should be carried considering the guilt does not all lie on on. Not being cognizant of the precise one side and the reason and right on the terms of that language, it is impossible to other ; but that mixed motives and mixed i give a categorical reply ; but I may say considerations are to be found upon both that my noble Friend and my right hon. sides. It may be that we should more Friend, who represent the Government in properly look not so much for the cause; Ireland, have been chosen by Her Majesty but, as I once heard it expressed with re- to represent it on the ground that the ference to another great case of discon- principles on which we know they are pretent— to the causes of that cause- to pared to act, and therefore the language that which is removed from Fenianism by in which we should expect them to speak, many links perhaps ; and it may be that are the principles and are the language by these causes would form a proper and le- which we wish ourselves to be represented gitimate subject for the consideration of to the people of Ireland. Sir, our first Parliament. Sir, the representatives of duty is to condemn the folly, the madness, Irish constituencies have not shrunk from and the deep guilt of this conspiracy. I stating in this debate the subjects to which respect the sentiment, for I see it to be a they, or some of them, think it right that sentiment of high honour, which has prethe attention of Parliament should be di- vented the hon. Member for Tralee froni rected, with a view to improving the state saying he joins in the emphatic conof Ireland. We have heard of the questions demnation of Fenianism. I am certain of the University, of National Education, it is not because he does not condemn of the Established Church, of the reclama- it; but, at the same time, I feel that tion of waste land, of the tax on absentees, the more clear, distinct, and unequivocal of tenant-right, of loans, of railways, and our language on the subject is, not only of general measures for promoting the ma- the better do we discharge our duty terial prosperity of Ireland. The noble to the Throne, to the law, and to our Lord the Member for Cockermouth (Lord constituents, but the greater mercy we Naas) has given a fair description of these show to the deluded persons who are at subjects. Taken in the mass, he says once the agents and the victims of this they are fair questions for the consideration conspiracy. But, Sir, having said this, I of Parliament. I suppose he does not concur with those who say that the existmean to pledge himself by any means to ence, and the emerging from a conspiracy the practicable character of each and all like this, so far from taking away any duty, of those subjects. It would be impossible any obligation of the Legislature and the for Parliament to venture upon making Government to examine into Irish evils, promises with regard to them. Vague pro. with a sincere desire to improve the conmises, general comprehensive and sweeping dition of the country, on the contrary, promises, would result in infinite difficulty, raises that obligation to its highest point. especially when addressed to people whose Nor is that merely in deference to the dictates of political expediency, and the be made in favour of class, party, or place obvious necessity of avoiding the mischief in that country, but to the whole of that consequent upon the existence of such a country alike. But, Sir, there are many conspiracy. It is due from us also, in other questions in regard to which, in Engacknowledgment and in gratitude for the land, in Scotland, in Ireland, that instrong and genuine Irish sentiment which terest which is English, Scotch, or Irish has been developed upon this painful and respectively predominates over that which critical— but yet, perhaps, in some re- is common. Those are the questions which, spects beneficial - occasion, which has when they relate to Ireland, I apprehend given to the law, and to the representa- we ought commonly to call Irish questions. tives of the law, a strength such as in that with respect to all the questions that fall country they never before enjoyed. The into that category, we ought of course to noble Lord the Member for Cockermouth apply to Ireland the same principles on (Lord Naas), and other hon. Members, which we act in the other countries, not have enumerated the great results which making the opinion of the one country have been attained to Ireland, by Irish overrule the opinions and settle the quesMembers making their appeal on the sub- tions belonging to the others, but dealing ject of the welfare of their country to with the subjects and the interests of each the Imperial Parliament. If those great as nearly as we can in accordance with the works of improvement which have been views and sentiments of the natives of that already performed have now re-acted be country. Sir, I hope, therefore, that while neficially upon Ireland in such a way this House will avoid giving forth to the as to marshal on our side more than world vague promises capable of misappreever before was known all the best senti-hension, I also hope that as each subject ment, conviction, and intelligence of the connected with the condition of Ireland country, that I say is at once the greatest comes before us, we shall be able to treat of all encouragements, and the highest of it, if it be specifically Irish, with a special all obligations, to lead us to persevere in view to Irish objects and interests. I say the carrying forward of such works. Sir, this whether the questions may lie in the for my own part, I can only beg to say sphere especially of the mind and the feelthat which I have often presumed to say ings of men, as do those connected with in this House. We are an united people, education and religion, or whether they with a common Government, and a com- may refer to political arrangements or plete political incorporation. But we are social arrangements; or whether they may also an united kingdom made up of three refer to that other class of subjects well nations, of three countries welded politi-worthy, indeed, of the attention of Parliacally into one, but necessarily and in fact ment which are connected with the mawith many distinctions of law, of usage, ofterial prosperity of Ireland. And I frankly character, of history, and of religion. In own I cling to the hope, though quite uncircumstances such as these there are com- able to define the precise extent or even mon questions which must be administered the precise manner in which Parliament upon principles common to the whole Em- may be able to realize that hope, that it pire-all those questions in which the in- may be possible for England to do hereterests of the whole overbear and swallow after that which she has often done before, up the interests of the part. The com- to assist with a liberal hand, perhaps, under position of the Government must be deter- improved circumstances, and with views mined, not by domicile or birthplace, but matured by experience, to promote the deby the competence of those who are chosen velopment of that material prosperity. It to fill offices of State. The levying of is in that way we can best hope to attain taxes and the administration of the public the object well described by the hon. revenue must, it is obvious, be governed Member for Cork (Mr. Maguire) to-night, by principles applicable to the three king. when he said that it is our duty to destroy doms alike-alike as a general rule, sub- the trade of the conspirator. It is our duty ject, possibly, in certain cases, to excep- to restrain and to repress his acts, strongly tion. But, if there be exceptions, they to denounce them in their character and should be well defined as exceptions, they their tendency; but it is our duty above should be thoroughly understood by the all, if we can, to destroy his trade, pursuthree kingdoms as exceptions ; and, above ing that system of practical legislation by all

, if there are exceptions made in behalf which, as has been observed, so much proof one particular country, they should not gress has already been made rallying on

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

the side of the law and the Government all the same question. It was exceedingly the best sentiments and feelings of the desirable that the House should not run country, by which we hope to contribute any risk of the postponement of that subalike to its welfare, and to the credit, and ject; but as the Report of the Address must the honour, and the dignity of the British be brought up the day after the debate Empire.

was concluded, there would be no security THE O'DONOGHUE said, he had been against the cattle plague question being urged by many of his hon. Friends to with thrown over if the present debate were addraw the Amendment, and to add the words journed. Upon that ground he would sugto, instead of substituting them for, the gest that the Address should be allowed to paragraph in the Address. He wished, pass, and then a full opportunity would be therefore, to withdraw the Amendment. afforded to raise discussion upon it on the

MR. SPEAKER said, that the Amend- Report to-morrow (this day). ment was in possession of the House, and Sir JOHN PAKINGTON said, that that it was for the House to decide whether he would assent to that course. they would grant permission to the hon. Gentleman to make the change he proposed.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Original Question put, and agreed to.

Committee appointed, to draw up an Address Amendment proposed,

to be presented to ller Majesty upon the said To add, at the end of the same paragraph, the Resolution ;-Lord FREDERICK Cavendish, Mr. words “Humbly to express our deep regret to GRAHAM, Mr. CHANCELLOR of the ExcHEQUER, Her Majesty that wide-spread disaffection exists Sir George Grey, Mr. SECRETARY Cardwell, Sir in Ireland, and humbly to represent to Her Majesty that this wide-spread disaffection is the re

Charles Wood, Mr. MILNER Gibson, Mr. Vil. sult of grave causes, which it is the duty of Her LIERS, Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL, Mr. SOLICITOR Majesty's Ministers to examine into and re-General, Mr. Attorney General for IRELAND, move."— The O'Donoghue.)

The LORD ADVOCATE, and Mr. CHILDERS, or any Question put, “That those words be Three of them :-To withdraw immediately :there added."

Queen's Speech referred. The House divided :--Ayes 25; Noes 346 : Majority 321.


RESOLUTIONS IN COMMITTEE. SIR JOHN PAKINGTON rose to move the adjournment of the debate. Al- THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCIIEthough it had occupied the unusual period QUER said, he moved that the Speaker of two nights, the House had only touched leave the Chair, in order that he might upon two subjects ; but there was a ques- submit to the House preliminary Resolution more important than either of them tions for bringing in two Bills founded on which had not yet been referred to principles which had obtained universal ap. namely, the subject of Parliamentary Reproval. The first of them aimed at the form, concerning which they had had no extinction of two small funds which beinformation from Her Majesty's Govern- longed to the old Sinking Fund, which was ment. He therefore thought it desirable cancelled by Parliament forty years ago. they should adjourn the debate until to. The other fund arose from the interest on morrow night.

unclaimed stock and unappropriated divi

dends. He also proposed, in connection Motion made, and Question proposed, with the Post Office savings banks, to " That the Debate be now adjourned.” pass a Resolution for the confirmation of

permanent annuities, according to a plan THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE- peculiarly accepted by Parliament, at first QUER said, the Government had no desire in a formal manner, and which had the to avoid discussion upon all the points of effect of contributing to defray the charges the Speech ; but they stood in a peculiar of the National Debt by a sum which exposition. His right bon. Friend (Sir George ceeded £100,000 a year. By this means Grey) had given notice of a Bill upon the it was proposed to create £5,000,000 of sobject of the cattle plague for Monday, stock, and the plan would operate advanand another hon. Member (Mr. Hunt) had tageously on the annual charges of the likewise expressed his intention of raising country, and that was an operation to be

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extended as much as circumstances would, the constitutional form of the Exchequer permit.

check, but to introduce harmony into all Motion agreed to.

proceedings subsequent to that operation

so as to get rid of a great deal of unneActs considered in Committee.

cessary and expensive book-keeping now

carried on. The third and most important (In the Committee.)

object was this. During the discussion Resolved, that it is expedient to amend the which arose last year out of Mr. Edmunds' Laws relating to unclaimed Stock and Dividends and to Donations and Bequests, and to grant case, it became known to Parliament inuch powers for cancelling certain perpetual Stocks of more fully than had formerly been the case, Annuities standing in the names of the Commis- | that there were many branches of public sioners for the Reduction of the National Debt receipt and expenditure that were not subon account of unclaimed Stock and of Donations and Bequests ; and to make provision, out of the jected to audit, and that the whole system Consolidated Fund, for any charge which shall of audit was in a most unsatisfactory state

. arise in consequence of the said unclaimed Stock Some of the expenditure was audited by having been so cancelled.

the Audit Board, which was quite right ; Resolution to be reported To-morrow. some of it by the Treasury, which was Resolved, That it is expedient to amend the partment for controlling, and not auditing;

quite wrong, for the Treasury was a deLaws relating to the investments for Savings the expenditure; and, lastly, a good deal Banks and for Post Office Savings Banks, and to grant powers for the conversion of certain per- of it was not audited at all. The Governpetual Government Annuities standing in the ment proposed to substitute for that threenames of the Commissioners for the Reduction of fold irregular and anomalous method of the National Debt on account of the Fund for the Banks for Savings, and also on account of the proceeding an uniform method, by which Post Office Savings Bank Fund, into certain other the whole of the expenditure should be Stocks and Annuities; and to provide for due audited by the proper department appointed payment thereof out of the Consolidated Fund. for the purpose—namely, the Audit Board. Resolution to be reported To-morrow. The appropriation audit would therefore

be carried throughout the whole of the EXCHEQUER AND AUDIT DEPART.

public expenditure. MENTS,

MR. BOUVERIE said, that the system

of audit had hitherto not been satisfactory. BILL PRESENTED. FIRST READING

The ancient system had become obsolete, THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE- and lately had, in fact, been no check at QUER presented a Bill to consolidate the all. Under these circumstances, he be. duties of the Exchequer and Audit Depart. lieved that the Bill now introduced would ments, to regulate the receipt, custody, and effect a very great improvement. issue of public monies, and to provide for

Motion agreed to. the audit of the accounts thereof. He said, the course he proposed to take with regard Bill to consolidate the duties of the Exchequer to the Bill was to introduce it that night, and Audit Departments, to regulate the receipt

, and in consideration of its importance to vide for the audit of the accounts thereof, ordered allow a fortnight to elapse before he moved

to be brought in by Mr. CHANCELLOR of the Ex. the second reading. He should next pro- CHEQUER and Mr. CHILDERS. pose to refer it to the Select Committee on Bill presented, and read the first time. (Bill 3.] Public Accounts; and, as it was a Bill almost entirely relating to public accounts,

QUALIFICATION FOR OFFICES it would receive a more impartial, autho

ABOLITION. ritative, and searching examination before that Committee than it would in


FIRST READING. any way. The object of the Bill was, first of Qualification for Offices Abolition-Conall, to consolidate the departments of Ex- sidered in Committee. chequer and Audit, while the personal

(In the Committee.) functions of the Controller of the Exche

Moved, That the Chairman be directed to move quer would not be interfered with. The the House that leave be given to bring in a Bill next object of the Bill was to apply to what to render it unnecessary to make and subscribe was called the Exchequer check the prin- certain declarations as a Qualification for Offices ciples of modifications recommended by the and Employments ; to indemnify such persons as very important Committee on Public Monies Employment; and for other purposes relating which sat some years ago, so as to preserve thereto.-(Mr. Hadfield.)

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

MR. NEWDEGATE said, he must | Motions made by Members of this House :”—Mr. express his regret that the hon. Men - Bonham.CARTER, Sir John PAKINGTON, Mr. Walber for Sheffield thought it necessary Mr. GASKELL, Sir' STAFFORD NORTHCOTE, The

POLE, Mr. Henley, Mr. SECRETARY CARDWELL, to moot this question again; but he hoped O'Conor Don, Mr. Hastings Russell, and Mr. the hon. Member, as he proposed the CHILDERS :— Three to be the quorum. Bill in his capacity as an independent Member, would name the second reading

REIGATE ELECTION. for a Wednesday. When the second reading came on he should move that it be read tion [App. 8); referred to the General Commit

Petition of Electors, complaining of that Eleca second time that day six months. The tee of Elections, and Mr. Speaker to issue his Bill had been several times rejected by the Warrants for persons, papers, and records. House of Lords, and carried in that House

House adjourned at a quarter by very small majorities.

before One o'clock, MR. HADFIELD said, he must remind the hon. Member that he had been invited to serve on the Select Committee to which the previous Bill had been referred, and that he had declined. The principle of the Bill had already been six times assented

HOUSE OF LORDS, to by the House, and sought merely to repeal a qualification which had never been

Friday, February 9, 1866. enforced. A noble Earl in another place (the Earl of Derby), had declared that the MINUTES.)–Several Lords took the Oath. declaration, which had never been enforced for thirty-eight years, was not worth the

ROLL OF THE LORDS. paper on which it was written. He (Mr. Hadfield) was averse to having the second

The Lord Chancellor acquainted the reading for a Wednesday, as he desired the House, That the Clerk of the Parliaments Members of the Government to be present.

had prepared and laid it on the Table. MR. NEWDEGATE said, that he had

The same was Ordered to be printed. declined to act on the Committee, because (No. 3.) he felt confident that it would find that which they did find-namely, that the Bill HER MAJESTY'S ANSWER TO THE consisted entirely of principle, and that,

ADDRESS, with effect, they could not alter one word of the Bill. The explanation as to the

HER MAJESTY'S Answer to the Ad. majority on the previous Bill lay in the dress, reported as follows : fact that the measure was brought on for third reading at so late an hour that its

My Lords, opponents were taken by surprise.

“I THANK you for your loyal and du

tiful Address, and for the renewed AssurMotion agreed to,

ance of


affectionate Interest in every Resolution reported.

Event which tends to increase the domestic Bill ordered to be brought

in by Mr. HaDFIELD, Happiness of Myself and My Family. Sir MORTON l'Eto, and Mr. BAINES. Bill presented, and read the first time. (Bill 1.] “I FEEL confident that the various

Measures, which will be submitted to you, RAILWAY TRAVELLING IN IRELAND BILL.

to improve the Law and promote the On Motion of Sir CoLMAN O'LOCALEN, Bill Welfare of My People, will receive your further to secure to the Public the means of travelling by Railway in Ireland, ordered to be earnest and careful Consideration." brought in by Sir COLMAN O’LOGHLEN, Major Gavin, and Captain STACPOOLE. Bill presented, and read the first time. (Bill 2.] IRELAND_PAY OF THE CONSTABU.


In reply to a Question of The Earl of
Select Committee appointed, to “ assist Mr. LEITRIM,
Speaker in all matters which relate to the Print-

EARL RUSSELL said, that there had ing executed by Order of this House, and for the been no Royal Commission inquiring into the Returns and Papers presented in pursuance of subject of the Irish police; but, as a question

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