resolutely, and without slackening the gait, bayonet charges have succeeded in nine cases out of ten. The bayonet is usually more effective than grape, canister, or bullets." But it should be remembered that the phrase, "using the bayonet," does not actually imply crossing the steel; but the pressing to close quarters by which one body of resolute men dislodge another body of men somewhat less resolute. He would also refer to a statement made by Dr. Russell, the correspondent of The Times, who said "The experience of the American War is certainly in favour of those who maintain that fine and long shooting cannot and does not decide a serious affair in any campaign, and, though it is highly desirable that soldiers should shoot well, it is of far more consequence that they should be steady, courageous, and well-disciplined." And the words of the text book said that a soldier who could not shoot was useless and an incumbrance to his battalion. Colonel Fletcher, the author of a history of the American War, had said how desirable it was that some means should be devised whereby men could be supplied with ammunition during action. On page 177 of his second volume, in allusion to the failure of the Federals at the Battle of Antietam, the following passage occurred: "There seems to have been little method in bringing the several divisions into action, or with supplying them with ammunition on the field; each successive line moved to the front, fired as long as their ammunition lasted, and then gave way to a fresh line, except when pressed by the enemy, when, as was the case with Hooker's corps it broke and fled." The same absence of any system for supplying troops under fire with ammunition was felt in the English army, and up to the present time no attempt whatever had been made to devise a system which would mend the defect. He could speak from his own knowledge upon that point, for he had commanded in a case where he had felt the necessity of some such system. Colonel Fletcher made mention of the want in another portion of his book. At page 440 of the second volume he wrote "A well-organized method of supplying troops with ammunition in the field, and of replenishing its increased expenditure, is another difficulty that requires preparation to meet, and which does not seem to have been sufficiently considered by the Northern Generals." He would, before sitting down, call the noble Lord's attention to a paragraph he had copied from the Army and Navg Gazette of the 3rd instant, in which it was stated that a young officer of the 95th had been brought before a medical commission suffering from intermittent mania, which first manifested itself by his stating that the rifle drill was all d--d nonsense. Now, although he did not go so far as that young officer in condemning the rifle drill, yet he thought there was not a single officer in the army who would not sympathize with the sufferer if he were put into observation. a lunatic asylum for having made that COLONEL NORTH said, he desired again to call the Committee's attention to what he felt was the fault of the ten years' system. The noble Lord had made the following statement: "The Limited Enlistment Act is working exactly as we had reason to suppose it would. The proportion of men who re-enlist after taking their discharge remains exactly the same as it was at first, about 60 per cent." But every That was to say that 40 of the best men out of every 100-those whom the officers most wished to retain-were lost to the army; and these were the men who were most eagerly received into the police force or on the railways, or into any other post of trust out of the army. Then, if they examined into the treatment of the men who re-enlisted, what did they find? A warrant of the 9th of June, 1864, showed that a soldier on re-engagement was to receive a fresh bounty of £1, and allowance of £2 in lieu of a free kit, and a payment of 18. a day for twenty days, so that he received £4 altogether. If he were engaged at head-quarters, or the depôt of his regiment, for a second term he would be entitled to a gratuity of £1, and a furlough of two months. one who knew the character of a soldier would understand that this money would go in the course of two or three days, and the re-enlisted but experienced soldier found himself side by side with the raw recruit and with the same pay. An increase of pay would, in his opinion, be infinitely preferable to this system of allowances. Anxious that the country should know the cost it was put to in bringing home soldiers from the different stations after ten years' service, he had moved for a Return which had recently been presented. It showed that 4,022 men had been sent home from the different colonies at an expense of £133,961 12s. 2d., or at an average cost of £33 68. 14d per man. He had proposed last year and the year before that a man on re-enlisting, after ten years' service, should receive 2d. a day extra pay, which in the year would amount to £3 08. 10d. If that proposition were adopted, he believed it would tend very much to induce the men to re-enlist, and the 4,022 men would have been retained in the service for another eleven years. The Return to which he referred was up to the end of the year 1863, but every year the numbers retiring became more and more alarming. In the year 1857 no less than 22 second battalions were raised, and consequently next year every one of these men might leave the service. The position of the re-enlisted soldier had been described with remarkable clearness in a letter addressed to the Editor of The Times on the 9th of June last. The writer said "As the matter now stands, the highly trained, experienced, and disciplined soldier, the man who has served his country and has proved the strength of his constitution by service in various climates, is no better paid by his employer than the raw untrained recruit enlisted but yesterday. In the army the old soldier feels that the manufactured article does not command a better price than the raw material. Can we wonder at a ten years' man declining to re-engage in a profession where histechnical knowledge, his disciplined character, his proved courage, and his tested constitution are absolutely ignored as elements of value when competing with an untutored chaw bacon' just trapped in the country, or at his seeking a liveliappreciated? In any profession a healthy man of twenty-eight years can command a higher wage than a lad of eighteen. The truth is, that our system of pay is as crude, as clumsy, as antiquated, and as unfitted for the present age as many other parts of our military system, and requires a complete and liberal revision." hood in some line of life where his value is better He was sure that those hon. Members on the opposite side of the House who employed such large numbers of men would not hesitate to increase their pay after a term of ten years' service rather than lose them. He would conclude his obser vation by quoting a remark made by the late Mr. Sidney Herbert, who had said with reference to the sale of commis sions "The efficiency of the army is at stake, and in any change which we desire to make we ought to be careful to have with us the assent of the great body of the profession; and I can assure the House there is no member of the profession who approves of the present system." It was all very well to talk of reduction of expense, but the real reduction was only on paper. He trusted the Royal Commission which had been promised would produce a more healthy state of affairs than that which now existed. Colonel North COLONEL SYKES believed that, however opinions might vary upon the details of the Estimates, every hon. Member would give the noble Marquess credit for a desire to extend the information before the Committee-a desire which had displayed itself in the increased bulk of the Estimates from 135 pages and 5 appendices, to 161 pages and 14 appendices in the present Estimates. Still, however, without being hypercritical, he believed that there was room for further improvement. For instance, under the Manufacturing Votes the House was not informed of the quantity of material bought, the cost per cwt., the number of cannon manufactured, and the cost per cannon. The same remark applied to small arms and powder. Members would look in vain for the price of a rifle, or of a barrel of gunpowder. expenditure in the matter of small arms was considerably greater than that incurred on account of the French army, but then the French did not manufacture their small arms in their own establishments. The French Government have contracts with four large establishments in different parts of the country, and the contractors are required to furnish a certain fixed number of rifles, swords, and other necessary articles per annum, so that the amount required for those articles necessarily appeared in the French Estimates to be always a fixed quantity. Then, again, the French Budget supplied the information in which our own Estimates were defective-they stated the amount in kilogrammes of the quantity of metal used in the forges, the number of cannon cast, and their cost. The same information Our might with very little trouble be given in our Estimates. The noble Marquess had given satisfactory tables of the cost of each department and of their component parts, but though he had given the numbers, or designations separately, of those employed in the different departments, he had left hon. Members to do the addition themselves a labour which the House ought, in his opinion, to be spared. He doubted, indeed, whether the noble Marquess himself could tell how many persons were employed in his own Department without first doing a little of this addition. The reductions of our forces in England and India were not attended by a reduction in the Estimates; indeed, the reduction of our military establishment in India entailed upon us, according to the Estimates, an increased expenditure, inasmuch as all European troops em-timates contained a charge at Hong Kong ployed in India were paid out of Indian for mud huts-mud huts for European revenues, and the half-pay consequent troops in the torrid zone. With such on reductions in India fell upon the accommodation it was no wonder that British Exchequer. As to the recruiting the regiments were decimated, while the service, it was stated that there was country paid £189,227 for the troops mainlatterly an indisposition on the part of tained there. There were several other young men generally to enlist in the mili- colonies, such, for instance, as Malta tary service. But considering the im- £327,220, and Australia £218,316, where pulse given of late years to emigration, the cost of the military establishments the increased demand for labour, and the were considerable, while the returns were general increase of wages, the supply of small, amounting in all from the colonies recruits must necessarily diminish, and to £227,000 out of an annual outlay of young men from the country were less in- £3,004,714. He would give the noble clined to take military service than they Marquess a hint on the subject of economy. were some few years ago. The increased It appeared from the Votes that certain bounty which had been suggested for sol- West Indian and Ceylon regiments had diers after ten years' service would not each forty-eight officers, including a payonly be of no advantage, but would be in master and adjutant, whereas Government reality offering a premium for desertion, thought that the black men in the Native unless indeed the bounty were placed to regiments in India were sufficiently the soldier's credit, as in the French army, officered by six European officers. The and he were permitted to draw a por- result of such a system was seen in the tion of it annually or half-yearly. It would Bhootan War, in which the regiments sufbe much better to enlist recruits in the fered greatly in consequence of the loss of first instance for a longer period, say their officers, in one instance only one officer twelve years, and at the end of twenty being left fit for duty. If Government years' service to give them lump sums deemed it sound policy-but he (Colonel to enable them to set up in business, and Sykes) took leave to call it fatuous-that if after fifteen years' service they were six officers were sufficient for the Native allowed to marry, they would probably Indian regiments, then to be consistent be more contented, and continue many they should reduce the number of West years longer in the service. The Estimates Indian and Ceylon officers to six with each showed that our colonies absorbed a very regiment, whereby a considerable saving large amount for military purposes without might be effected. Not that he recomour receiving a suitable equivalent. The mended Government to take such a step, total amount was £3,004,714; of this as he believed that they had never adopted Canada demanded £608,088, of which a worse policy than they had in reducing £121,363 were asked this year for fortifications and buildings. We got nothing in return for this expenditure but a hostile tariff to our manufacturing industry. £193,312 was demanded for Nova Scotia, of which £42,187 was for buildings. We received in return nil! In China the sum of £12,436 was set down for buildings. The military there cost us £189,287, and the navy upwards of £400,000. The return was £10,000, which he presumed came from Hong Kong. The charge for buildings at Hong Kong was unhappily necessary, as probably every hon. Member LORD HOTHAM said, there were two would think on remembering the suffer- more points to which he desired to draw ings that a portion of our troops had un- the attention of the noble Marquess. The dergone there some short time since. Our one was the proposal of the noble Marquess men were sent there from the salubrious in reference to recruiting, in which he climate of the Cape of Good Hope at the time when the hot season was approaching, and consequently the havoc caused among them was frightful. The additional Es the number of the officers of Indian regiments from twenty-five to six. He would suggest to the noble Marquess whether the depôt battalions in England were not over officered, as he observed that there were fifteen lieutenant-colonels in this country commanding fifteen depôt battalions, when fifteen captains would be quite capable of performing that service. He feared the system of transferring officers to the retired list would operate most unfairly, as many of them would be unable to return to active service. (Lord Hotham) naturally took a great interest, because he had had the honour of being President of the last Royal Commission that had inquired into the subject. The powers of that Commission were strictly | himself right in his remarks, he (Lord limited to suggesting improvements in the Hotham) had taken the precaution of askexisting system, and he was therefore glad ing his right hon. Friend the Member for to find that the noble Marquess intended to Huntingdon (General Peel) whether he recommend the appointment of another recollected the noble Marquess having proCommission armed with the fullest powers mised to present the Return of the Reto inquire into this important subject. There served Funds at the same time as the was none more important to the best in- Army Estimates, and his right hon. Friend, terests of the country. He entertained a in reply, said he perfectly recollected it. He confident hope, if that Commission were was satisfied that, among the multiplicity properly appointed, its labours would be of the noble Marquess's duties it had been productive of the most beneficial effects. quite an inadvertent forgetfulness on his The other point to which he wished to re- part. After what had passed upon this fer was that which had been touched upon subject to-night the noble Marquess would by his right hon. Friend the Member for perhaps not be disposed to resist some inHuntingdon (General Peel), and also by quiry into this matter in order that the the hon. and gallant Gentleman the Mem- House might know what were the sums ber for Longford (Mr. O'Reilly), he meant that fell into the hands of the Secretary of the subject of the Reserve Funds. He State, and how, under what regulations, (Lord Hotham) coincided in their opinion by whose authority, and in what manner that it was time some inquiries should be they were disposed of. made into this subject, not only for the reason they had assigned, but also for certain other reasons which had occurred to him. One of those reasons should at all times have a very great weight with the House of Commons-namely, that under the existing system the Secretary of State for War had the absolute control and disposal of large sums of money of which he never gave any account, or, at all events, no account which could be made the least use of in the House of Commons. He was not able to lay his hands on the Return of the state of the Reserved Funds of last year, but he saw in the Return of 1863 that there was then in the hands of the Secretary for War a sum of £60,000. Now, considering the manner in which financial accounts generally were scrutinized in that House, he thought that the House of Commons should not allow sums of that magnitude to remain in the hands of any officer of the Government without some account being regularly rendered. He could not refer to what was the state of the Reserved Funds of the present year, because, although un-in some distant part of Asia, and durintentionally, he was convinced the noble Marquess had failed in carrying out the pledge he had given last Session-namely, to present the Return of the Reserved Funds to the House at the same time as the Army Estimates were presented. THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON was understood to doubt that he had made such a promise. LORD HOTHAM: The noble Marquess seemed to dispute the correctness of what he had stated. Now, in order to keep Lord Hotham SIR HARRY VERNEY said, that the ten years' system did a great deal of mischief to regiments in India. One grievance it entailed upon commanding officers in that country was that when they lost their non-commissioned officers at the expiration of ten years' service, the non-commissioned officers appointed in their room received no additional pay until the Return was sent from this country that their predecessors had been discharged. He trusted that the noble Lord would attend to this subject, and would enable commanding officers to give pay at once to the non-commissioned officers they appointed. It was unjust that one man should receive the pay and another do the work. He wished also to call the attention of the noble Marquess to what was felt to be a great grievance by officers who were serving in India. After a certain period of service an officer got six months' leave of absence, but he was not allowed to come to this country without losing his Indian allowances. He generally passed his time up in Cashmere or Thibet, or ing that time he received his allowances; but if he came to Europe he lost them, and that was felt to be a great hardship and injustice. It could be of no consequence to the authorities whether an officer spent his spare time in Asia or in Europe, while it might be of the greatest advantage to him so far as his health was concernedindeed, be even the means of saving his life-if he were allowed to spend three or four months out of the six in returning to see his friends in this country. He con curred with those who had spoken in con- | Hugh Rose that support which it was ingratulating the noble Lord on the appoint- credible they did not give him before. He ment of the Royal Commission, which he was sure the commanding officers of regithought would be extremely useful. There ments in Ireland would at this time, if at were various points in the Estimates to no other, be most anxious to support him which he should call the attention of the | in putting down that most detestable conCommittee when particular Votes were spiracy which was going on in that proposed. At present he would only refer country. to one, the expense of the cadastral survey. He thought if, instead of taking twenty MAJOR STUART KNOX said, he was glad to hear that a Royal Commission was to be appointed on recruiting. He believed men could not be got, simply because they found other positions in life in which they were better off were at their disposal. He wished to know if the proposed new branch of the service created by the appointment of comptrollers at various ports and foreign stations, which would cause a great additional expenditure, would lead to any reduction in the number of clerks at the War Office? It was generally thought that the gentlemen who held those clerkships, however efficient they might be, had very little to do, and it was considered that by decreasing their number a large additional sum of money might be applied for the benefit of the soldiers themselves. He believed some other reductions had taken place which had not been mentioned by the noble Lord. He understoood that the cadets at Woolwich had been placed on short rations. This was a matter in which the noble Marquess might not take much interest, but it was a matter of importance to the cadets themselves and their relations; and perhaps he would be kind enough to inquire into it. In the latter part of his speech the noble Marquess made -no doubt unintentionally-a very serious attack on officers commanding in Ireland. He said they were only now giving Sir MR. WATKIN said, he would not have troubled the Committee with any observa. tion but for a somewhat remarkable omission in the speech of the noble Marquess. As he was the first civilian who had spoken, he might say that the civilians of this country did not look so much to the amount of money required by these Estimates, but they endeavoured to take a sort of guage of the amount of efficiency they got for the money. They did not mind an increase in the Estimates if it could be clearly seen that the administration of military affairs were in thoroughly able hands, and if increased efficiency followed increased outlay. The question of small arms had been touched upon by the right hon. and gallant Member for Huntingdon (General Peel), and the noble Marquess had referred to the inventions of Snider and others, but not a single word had been said with reference to the great field for military experience afforded by America during the last few years of the Civil War in that country, and no reference had been made to the number of extraordinary and valuable weapons which had been invented and brought into use in that contest. Knowing that many of Her Majesty's officers had witnessed those operations in America, he thought that the House might have been favoured with the result of their experience in reference to those particular inventions to which he referred. One result of the American War was that the soldiers of the country were armed with a repeating rifle which made one man as valuable as from four to six men armed with the best weapon in use in this country. The life of the British soldier was valuable, and he deserved to be armed with the best weapon which modern invention could produce. The American practice in time of peace he understood was founded upon three very important principles. In the first place, they had a small but efficient standing army; secondly, they had an enormous militia population which could resolve itself into the army whenever it was required; and, lastly, they were armed with the most efficient weapons which could be procured. Every three or four years the autho |