but those Bills may be dealt with in the usual manner. I confess, my Lords, I cannot see any reason for the conclusion at which the Board of Trade have arrived. It appears to me that, on their own showing, there is the most conclusive reason why Parliament should adopt a somewhat similar course to that taken last Session? If any noble Lord will look to the map attached to the Report of the Board, he will see coloured lines representing railways running here and there, and everywhere; different lines intercepting each other at all angles, and crossing each other at all points. I do not know whether those lines are properly marked; but assuming them to be so, one can see at a glance the necessity for great care in dealing with those schemes. The metropolitan schemes sanctioned by Parliament in 1864 included a mileage of forty-five miles, and involved a capital of £12,700,000: The metropolitan schemes now before Parliament, independent of those which have been abandoned, include a mileage of eighty-seven miles, and involve a capital of £17,600,000 in round numbers. It would appear also, my Lords, that the powers claimed by the promoters of some of those Bills are of a very remarkable character-so remarkable that I venture to bring them under the notice of your Lordships.. Power is asked in one case to underpin and strengthen any house within 100 yards of the line without the consent of the parties interested in the premises, which I take it is an application for power to bore under a man's house without giving him any compensation. There is another Bill which asks for compulsory powers to purchase vaults and cellars without being required to purchase the houses to which they are attached. To such an extent is it proposed that power shall extend, that the question of compensation is not to go before a jury, but is to be settled by an arbitrator, appointed by the Board of Trade. I have no doubt that such powers will not be conceded; but I merely mention the circumstance to show how important it is that Parliament should deal with the question as a whole. At the present moment London is in a most indescribably unsatisfactory state. Railway bridges have been thrown across the river just as and where railway companies took a fancy to place them, thereby spoiling past remedy one of the finest river fronts in Europe. Only two years ago, a scheme was proposed for disfiguring the approach to St. Paul's by carrying in the air a huge tubular bridge. Northumberland House and the Savoy Chapel have only escaped destruction recently by the Bill being thrown out in another place. And not only are these railway companies cutting and carving London in all directions, but great injustice is being done to the population as regard their health and comfort. In fact, we are suffering from two opposite causes-the absence of necessary legislation on the one hand, and an excess of legislation conducted in an indiscriminate and haphazard manner on the other. We suffer from an excess of legislation when we sanction conflicting schemes, and we suffer from the total absence of legislation when we allow the suburbs to extend in every direction without making proper and adequate provision for railway access between them and the metropolis. We must remember that every metropolitan railway scheme we sanction displaces a large number of the poorest class of the population. There is a Standing Order of this House which provides that whenever the construction of a railway involves the demolition of any of the lodgings of a given number of the labouring classes at least eight weeks' notice shall be given before the occupants are ejected. That is a very proper and considerate Order; it perhaps would be difficult to carry it much further, but clearly it is an Order which does not meet the full difficulty of the case. If the houses are taken it is exceedingly doubtful whether the tenants, even with eight weeks' notice, can find in the immediate neighbourhood new lodgings for themselves, and if they do succeed they do so only to discover that the price of lodgings has become enormously enhanced. In a calculation which I was observing some time since, and from which I saw no cause to differ, it was argued that taking the wages of a labouring man at thirty-five shillings per week—a very high figure-he had often to pay seven shilings a week for a couple of rooms, which is equivalent to a tax of 20 per cent upon his total earnings. If this be so it is a tax which is almost without parallel in weight. One railway company, of which a Member of your Lordships' House is chairman, has wisely built lodging-houses on land adjoining their railway for the labouring classes. I do not know that it would be wise, or indeed possible, to require all railways to adopt the same course; but these are points which deserve to be considered in connection with the great alterations which are proposed to be made in the metropolis in refer-, doubt, the duty of the Government, and ence to railway communication, and though more especially of the Board of Trade, to there are undoubtedly several modes of give an important subject of this nature procedure, I think they can be best con- every consideration in their power. The sidered by a Joint Committee appointed noble Earl wishes to know whether it is by both Houses of Parliament. The proposed to adopt the plan carried out in Board of Trade say they see no reason for 1864, when a great number of Railway departing from the ordinary course of busi-Bills which had come before Parliament ness, and I regret that they have come to that conclusion. But the Government ought not to put aside their duties even though the Board of Trade counsel them to do so. I think the Government ought to take the responsibility of dealing with the question as a whole upon themselves. In 1843 or 1844, when these railway cases first came before Parliament in considerable numbers, Lord Dalhousie, then President of the Board of Trade, drew up, as I have always heard, a scheme, in which he laid down certain broad lines of railway communication through the country. It is much to be regretted that scheme was not carried out. It would have saved a great amount of time, the expenditure of a large amount of capital, enormous litigation, and the misapplication of extensive railway funds; but as it is, time, labour, and money have all been squandered, leaving comparatively little to show for the outlay. No doubt I shall be told that the population of this great town is continually increasing, and that it requires accommodation in accordance with its growing wants. I do not deny that. If it is necessary to have five, ten, twenty, or thirty railroads in London, by all means have them; but let them be considered as a whole by some competent tribunal, which may be able to lay down a scheme complete both as to existing lines and in reference also to the future wants of the community. I shall be glad to hear from Her Majesty's Government what their intentions are with regard to these railway schemes. EARL RUSSELL: The noble Earl is under a misapprehension with regard to some points, and especially in reference to the Board of Trade. My right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade has had the question under consideration, and has decided upon introducing a measure into the other House of Parliament, which measure is now nearly prepared. The Bill, although it has not been considered solely with regard to the attainment of the particular objects adverted to by the noble Earl, will, I believe, afford considerable facilities for carrying out those objects. As to the Question of the noble Earl, it is, no The Earl of Carnarvon were referred to a Joint Committee of both LORD REDESDALE said, that several of the Railway Bills proposed to be submitted to Parliament had already been withdrawn, and those which remained could well be considered by a single Committee to whom they had been referred; therefore, he did not think in that case any necessity existed for the appointment of a Joint Committee of both Houses to deal with them. But with regard to the question of railway legislation, and the manner in which railway schemes were promoted, it had become so serious that he thought he should feel himself bound to call their Lordships' attention to the subject. It was a fact that at the present time no capital was fairly found for the promotion of schemes which came before Parliament; and that was, in his opinion, one of the reasons why so many of them broke down before they had passed through many stages, if they did not collapse altogether at the door of the House. The system had now reached such an excess of abuse that he felt Parliament was bound to interfere and say what should be done in the future. EARL RUSSELL: I am glad to hear the observations which have fallen from the noble Lord. He is far more competent to bring forward such a question than I am, and I should be glad if he would do so. SCHOOLMASTERS (IRELAND). MOTION FOR A RETURN. PRISONS ACT.-QUESTION. MR. HIBBERT said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether any arrangements have been made to ensure the uniform carrying into effect of the Prisons Act of last Session; and, if so, whether such arrangements include the appointment of an additional Inspector of Prisons? SIR GEORGE GREY, in reply, said, the correspondence on the subject had been laid upon the table. It was in the hands of the printers, and would shortly be delivered to hon. Members, when it would be found to give full information with reference to the carrying into effect the Prisons Act of last Session. MR. HIBBERT said, he wished to know if it would refer to the appointment of an additional inspector? SIR GEORGE GREY said, the cor LORD DUNSANY moved an Address respondence would show the course infortended to be taken. "Return of all Schoolmasters arrested in Ireland for Ribbonism, Sedition, or connection with the Fenian Conspiracy from 1st January 1860 to the latest Date ascertainable; such Return to specify whether the Person arrested was a Teacher in a National School, Endowed School, or Private School; whether the Patron of such School was a Layman, a Clergyman of the Church of England, or a Roman Catholic Priest; also whether the Schoolmaster arrested was appointed by the Government or by the Patron; and whether educated in a Normal School or elsewhere." LORD DUFFERIN said, the Government would direct the Return to be made, so far, at least, as the particulars referred to by the noble Lord were ascertainable. Motion agreed to. House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till To-morrow, half past Ten o'clock. WORKS AT ALDERNEY. MR. BAXTER said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of the Treasury, If any time has been fixed for bringing to a close the enormous expenditure at Alderney, and if the Estimate of £1,300,000 was to be exceeded? MR. CHILDERS: Sir, the total expenditure at Alderney to the 31st of December last is stated in the Estimates, now in the hands of hon. Members, to have been £1,175,346. To complete the work to the point known as D, without constructing the eastern arm, will cost less than £100,000 more, of which amount £50,000 will fall on the present financial year, and the remainder on the financial year 1866-7, but there is also a claim on the part of the contractors on account of damage done in the gales of last year which may slightly increase this amount. But all the work which Government now contemplates doing is expected to be completed within the £1,300,000, and the final payment will be in 1867-8. The House will remember that an Act was passed last year transferring Alderney from the Admiralty to the Board of Trade, and no further work would be undertaken there except on the recommendation of the Board of Trade to the Treasury. The formal transfer has just been completed, but I have no reason to expect that my right hon. Friend (Mr. 2 T Milner Gibson) contemplates any further of things, and whether he ought to draw works there. off the water and clear out the mud; but the exposure of decomposing mud would DEAN AND CHAPTER OF WESTMINSTER. have been dangerous to health and very QUESTION. MR. BENTINCK said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether the Dean and Chapter of Westminster are about to surrender their Capitular Estates to the Ecclesiastical Commission; and, if so, whether they are to receive in exchange an annual " commutation" payment, and of what amount, or a re-transfer of a portion of the Capitular Estates, and of what annual value; and whether any and what arrangement has been come to upon such surrender for securing adequate stipends to the Noncapitular Members of the Collegiate Church? He also wished to ask if the scheme was prepared, and whether the right hon. Gentleman will lay it on the table? SIR GEORGE GREY: I am informed that the Ecclesiastical Commissioners are in negotiation with the Dean and Chapter of Westminster for a commutation of their capitular estates, but that the terms of the transfer have not been yet settled. ORNAMENTAL WATER IN REGENT'S PARK.-QUESTION. disagreeable, and he caused two millions and a half of gallons of water to be poured into the lake, and since that time the water in the lake had been higher in consequence of the rains, and no unpleasant effluvium had been apparent. He was prepared to lay on the table of the House the documents to which the hon. Gentleman alluded. LOSS OF THE "LONDON." QUESTION. COLONEL WILLIAMS said, he wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade, When the Report of the loss of the ship London will be laid upon the table of the House; whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to take any steps for the better regulation of Passenger Ships generally, and the introduction of more stringent enactments as to their equipment, cargo, and crew; and whether some restraints should not be put on the departure of such Vessels under circumstances that threaten danger? MR. MILNER GIBSON: Sir, the Report relating to the loss of the London shall be laid on the table immediately. The London, as to her construction and MR. HARVEY LEWIS said, he wished equipments, had been inspected and passed to ask the First Commissioner of Works, as a good ship by three sets of surveyors Whether his attention has been called by-namely, Board of Trade surveyors, Emithe Medical Officer of Health for the parish of St. Marylebone to the dangerously filthy condition of the Ornamental Water in the Regent's Park, and whether he proposes to take any steps to cause the same to be cleansed; and whether he has any objection to lay upon the table of the House the Report and Analysis of the same forwarded to him by the Medical Officer. MR. COWPER, in reply, said, before sanitary facts were attended to the owners of houses used to drain them into the nearest river or ornamental water. This practice prevailed to some extent in Regent's Park, and in 1862 he discovered that the sewage of one of the villas was flowing into the ornamental water. He then succeeded in diverting the sewage, and last year, during the hot weather, the medical officer of Marylebone reported to him that there was a smell from the ornamental water which was very disagreeable and injurious to health. He then had to consider what was to be done in that state Mr. Childers gration surveyors, and Lloyd's surveyors. The Emigration surveyors exercised a control over her departure till the last moment before her sailing. It is not the intention of the Government, as at present advised, to propose any Bill containing more stringent enactments respecting the equipment, cargo, or crews of passenger ships. EAST INDIES-THE INDIAN BUDGET. QUESTION. MR. J. B. SMITH said, he rose to ask the Under Secretary for India, When the India Budget is to be brought forward; whether the late Secretary of State for India has communicated with the Government of India, as he promised this House in 1864, as to the practicability of making up the Indian Finance Accounts to a period which would enable him to lay them upon the table of the House at the opening of the Session of Parliament; and whether it be the intention of the Secretary of State for India in future to make such arrange- | Bill we introduced last year, and I hope to ments as will enable him to bring forward be able to lay it on the table shortly. the Budget at the beginning of the Session, instead of at the close, as heretofore. MR. STANSFELD, in reply, said, his noble Friend the late Secretary of State had communicated with the financial member of the Council, to whom the subject had been referred. The answer he received was under the consideration of the present Secretary of State, but it did not appear to be sufficiently definite. The Indian Government had been officially communicated with, and when their answer was received he would communicate it to the House. MR. J. B. SMITH: When does the hon. Gentleman expect to receive the COLONEL WILSON PATTEN: Will it be convenient to introduce the Bill of the Government before the discussion of the hon. Gentleman's (Mr. T. Hughes) Standing Order? MR. MILNER GIBSON: I will undertake to bring in the Bill in the course of a few days. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. NOTICE. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: I wish to give notice that on Monday, March 12, I will call the atten tion of the House to so much of Her Ma answer? MR. STANSFELD: The communica.jesty's gracious Speech as relates to the tion has only been ordered to-day. constituencies of counties and boroughs, tleman has not answered tion. ques MR. J. B. SMITH: The hon. Gen- and move for leave to bring in a Bill founded thereon. I may also state that the Returns which are in preparation for the information of the House, and which will amount to a volume of several hundred pages, are undergoing a final revision; but I cannot promise that they will be in the hands of Members till the end of next week, and possibly not until even the day after my statement. No time, however, shall be lost in placing them on the table. first my MR. STANSFELD said, that the finance accounts would be laid upon the table, according to the provision of the law, before the 14th of May; and, as far as the Indian Department was concerned, he should be prepared to introduce the Budget on the earliest day afterwards consistently with the necessities of public business and the convenience of the House. METROPOLITAN RAILWAYS. QUESTION. VISCOUNT CRANBOURNE: Does the right hon. Gentleman propose that the Bill shall be read a first time before the statistics are in the hands of Members ? If so, it will be in direct contradiction to the statement in the Queen's Speech. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: I am not aware of any such con COLONEL WILSON PATTEN said, he wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade, Whether the Government pro-tradiction. My Motion will be for leave to pose to introduce any measure relating to the Standing Order of which the hon. Member for Lambeth (Mr. T. Hughes) had given notice? MR. MILNER GIBSON: I presume, Sir, the Question of the hon. and gallant Member refers to a Bill which I introduced last Session containing certain clauses in the public interest with the view of its being incorporated in any special Railway Act affecting the metropolis. That Bill would not have met the proposal of the hon. Member for Lambeth, as his suggested Standing Orders are to apply to all companies asking powers to take lands and houses for any kind of works. Our Bill was limited to railway companies. We are in communication with the Metropolitan Board of Works on the subject of the bring in a Bill. After that Motion is granted it will be quite competent for any hon. Gentleman to raise the question as to the first reading of the Bill. ["No, no!"] I say it is perfectly competent to raise the question on the first reading. ["No!"] Well, then, Sir, I am in your hands. MR. SPEAKER: When a Bill is brought in it is at once read a first time. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: When it is brought in, then. I do not know what the noble Lord (Viscount Cranbourne) means when he speaks of a direct contradiction to Her Majesty's Speech. However, I will refer to the terms of Her Majesty's Speech, and then I shall be prepared to-morrow to answer that part of the Question. |