Select Committee appointed, "to inquire into the Local Government and Local Taxation of the Metropolis. (Mr. Ayrton.)

And, on March 7, Select Committee nominated as follows:-Mr. AYRTON, Mr. TITE, Mr. BAZLEY, Mr. LOCKE, Mr. ALDERMAN LAWRENCE, Mr. BARING, Mr. MILL, Mr. HANBURY, Lord JOHN MANNERS, Mr. BEECROFT, Mr. TURNER, Sir WILLIAM GALLWEY, Sir MATTHEW WHITE RIDLEY, Mr. SANDFORD, and Mr. KEKEWICH :-Power to send for persons, papers, and records; Five to be the quorum.

EAST INDIA COMMUNICATIONS.
SELECT COMMITTEE MOVED FOR.

MR. CRAWFORD said, he rose to ask the House to consent to the appointment

seemed to imagine that he imputed blame to Lord Llanover. He did nothing of the kind. On the contrary, he had spoken with the greatest respect of the noble Lord, and had only regretted that he was compelled by the difficulties which beset him to undertake a course of which he was sure his Lordship did not himself approve. All he had done was to show that with a divided administration the work had not gone on satisfactorily. He had deprecated the introduction of any personalities into the debate, and he had asked hon. Members not to abuse the vestries, and the result of his doing so was that the noble of a Select Committee for the purpose of Lord abused him instead. The value of inquiring into a subject of great and abuse always depended on the weight gene- general interest among the commercial rally attached to the opinion of the person classes-namely, the practical working of who used it, and he did not therefore much the present systems of telegraphic and mind the language that had been used postal communications between this country towards him by the noble Lord. Laudari and the East Indies. He would have been a laudatis was an old maxim, and he sup- glad if the concurrence of the Government posed that the reverse also held good. The had enabled him to make the Motion as an noble Lord had made against him one very unopposed one; but he thought it no slight serious charge. He had charged him with thing to ask the House to lend the weight having used his Parliamentary influence of its authority to an inquiry of this nature to obtain the passing through the House at any period, and especially at the present of a Bill connected with the sewage of the moment, when so many Members were metropolis. Now, there never was made called on to sacrifice their time in attendagainst any man a more unfounded charge, ance on Election Committees and in the disand there was no one who ought to know posal of a very large amount of Private that fact better than the noble Lord him- Bill business. Among the many remarkself. So far from assisting in passing the able circumstances which characterized the Bill, he had opposed the concessions made present day, none was more remarkable to the promoters as injurious to the public than the marvellous development of the interests. When the Bill was before Com-commerce of this country during the last mittee he then urged that the concessions that had been made to the promoters ought not to have been made. He was defeated in Committee, and he then brought the matter before the House, and succeeded in having the decision of the Committee reversed and the concessions withheld. Such were the simple facts of the case, and yet the noble Lord charged him with endeavouring to get passed a Bill the most important concessions in which he had, in the interest of the public, most strenuously opposed. He certainly had prevented the noble Lord from sitting upon that Committee, and he was sure that was not prejudicial to the interests of any one. Having set right the only fact alluded to by the noble Lord, the House could now understand what the noble Lord's explanations and opinions were worth; but for his part he did not think them worth notice.

Motion agreed to.

VOL. CLXXXI. [THIRD SERIES.]

few years. This result had been ascribed to various circumstances to the discovery of gold, to free trade, and other causes; but, in his opinion, nothing could be said to have more led to the promotion of the commerce of this country than the application of the science of the country to extend communication with foreign nations by means of steam navigation and the electric telegraph. Without entering on a disquisition more suitable for a lecture-room than for the floor of the House of Commons, he would content himself with adverting to a few facts connected with commerce, for the purpose of showing the great interest which the trade of this country with the East Indies had in the subject. That trade formed an important part of the whole trade of this country. In 1864, the last year for which we have official accounts in a complete form, the commodities imported into this country amounted in value to £275,000,000, and the commodities exported to £212,500,000. Of the

2 R

goods imported India supplied no less than | manner in which they were rendered. 20 per cent, and Ceylon, Singapore, He would state a few facts, which would China, Japan, Australia, and the Mauri- show also in what a remarkably absurd tius supplied 11 or 12 per cent in addi- manner the business of the country was tion; so that that portion of the world treated by the companies to which we conwhich was the subject of his Motion sup-fided these telegraphic messages. A merplied no less than one-third of the whole cantile house in Liverpool sent a message of the imports. In the case of exports, in September last to India, as follows:out of the total of 212 millions those "Contract for 1,000 bales of cotton "— countries took no less than forty-two mil- of a particular description, the value of lions sterling. It might also be important which was about £20 a bale, and thus the to see what was the description of the transaction represented a sum of £20,000. goods imported. Of the goods imported The message received in India was "Confrom those countries, there had been re- tract for 21,000 bales," and thus, instead ceived no less than £38,000,000 in value of £20,000, the amount involved was of cotton, more than £9,000,000 of various £400,000 more than that sum. Another other goods, which entered into the manu- order sent was, "Buy 500 bales at 12d." facturing industry of this country, and meaning, of course, that the highest £2,500,000 of articles of food, rice, sugar, limit at which the agent was to buy was tea, coffee, &c. The proposition he sub-12d. The message delivered was, "Buy mitted to the House was that it was es- 500 bales at 20d.," making a very consisential not only to maintain the present derable difference in the price. Indeed, means of communication between this it was well known in the City that the country and the East Indies, but to push to cause of the failure of a mercantile house the utmost the advantages which telegra- which took place about sixteen months phic communication afforded. Our trade was ago was a telegraphic blunder of this kind. now carried on in a manner very different An order was sent to Egypt to buy 500 to that which formerly prevailed. The bales of cotton, and, pursuant to the mestelegraph had almost superseded the post, sage as delivered, 5,000 bales were bought, which had become subsidiary and ancillary and the house was unable to meet the sum to the telegraph, and no important trans- due upon this large purchase. He had actions were entered into which were not been particularly requested to mention now communicated by telegraph. In rela- other cases which had been forwarded to tion to the trade with India it was the him from the Chamber of Commerce at custom when goods were shipped for tele- Madras, involving similar mistakes. The graphic information to be sent of that fact. most ridiculous of all the mistakes in the On the receipt of the bill of lading, if the translation of messages was one that hapmarket were favourable, the goods were pened to himself during the time the messold while on their way to their destination, sages were forwarded by way of Italy. He and by that means the shipper was relieved had occasion to send a message to a genfrom a great part of the risk, and was tleman in India to the effect that the news therefore content to receive less than he from America was to the 10th of the month, otherwise would accept, and as the element and that cotton was in favour of holders. The of risk entered largely into the cost, the translation was "News from America public were enabled to obtain the goods at to the 10th-a savour of soldiers." Of a reduced price. That was one of the course his correspondent did not know what advantages derived from telegraphic com- it meant. What our trade required was munication; but certainty and rapidity in rapidity and accuracy in telegraphic comthe delivery of the message were absolutely munication with India. He did not speak requisite. The information should be cor- boastfully, but he might state that he himrect and of recent date; but he regretted self spent £3,000 a year in sending teleto say that at present the telegraphic mes- graphic messages to India, the greater part sages between this country and India of which he recovered from his correspondwere most incorrectly rendered. Since ents, and this amount was probably less the period when he gave notice of his than that paid by many others. He might Motion he had received hundreds of letters send a message either through the office of complaining of the length of time oc- the Electric Telegraph Company or that of cupied, with the exception of within the Submarine Company. If he sent it by the last few days, in the transmission the former, the message was forwarded to of the messages, and of the incorrect Berlin or Frankfort, thence to Vienna,

Mr. Crawford

It was

Belgrade, Constantinople, to the head of messages were distributed to the various the Persian Gulf, and to Kurrachee, whence places of business in India. Until lately it was distributed throughout India by the the service there was almost as bad as internal telegraphic system of India. This that in the Turkish dominions, but it was telegram passed through seven different now improved. Some knowing people administrations. If he sent the message went into the country, and affixing an by the Submarine Company it went first to instrument to the wires brought down Paris, then through the Austro-German the messages. They then sent off men union as in the other case, or by way of Italy on horseback and sold the intelligence. through Macedonia, Thessaly, and so on These persons were apprehended and conto India. The worst of it was that it was victed. When the telegraphic communicaimpossible to fix these blunders upon any tion with India was carried on by way of one. Messages sent from this country to Egypt and Point de Galle, some two or India had to pass through Turkey. The three messages were always satisfactorily mistakes did not occur in London, nor in conveyed. Then it was said the wires Germany, or France, but in Turkey. It were out of order, and no more were transwas impossible to look for any change for mitted, which, of course, gave a great adthe better so long as messages were for- vantage to those whose messages were sent. warded through Turkey, by persons igno- Some time ago some gentlemen came to rant of the English language, and apathetic him, as Chairman of the East Indian Railas to our customs and wishes. As soon as way, and asked if he would consent to an the message got into the Turkish adminis- arrangement by which a public company tration it became subject to the treatment should transmit these messages. he had described. Many representations not the business of a railway company to had been addressed to the Turkish Govern- carry telegraphic messages, and the diment in favour of the appointment of Eng- rectors signified their willingness to treat lish signallers, but no sooner was anything with these gentlemen. They agreed to the proposed for the benefit of England than terms of the directors, but being a line France and Russia became jealous and in- with a Government guarantee, the directors terposed to prevent it. He had no doubt were unable to act without the sanction of that if France or Russia asked for any- the Secretary of State for India. Their thing, England would be equally jealous, application was sent out to India by the and he was assured that it was hopeless to Secretary of State, and when it returned expect any improvement as long as these they received a communication that their national jealousies existed. A petition had proposition could not be entetrained. The been presented the other day by the hon. directors inquired the reasons for this Member for Glasgow from the Bombay refusal, but the Secretary of State very Chamber of Commerce, which showed wisely refused to give any. Why should that the telegraphic communication with not this company be established in India India had an enormous substratum of busi- for the conveyance of messages along the ness. It was stated that during the seven railway system? A railway was the proper months from May to November, 1865, course for the telegraph wires to take. there had been 16.462 messages passed to The wires were inspected and could be and fro on the line between India and repaired by every passing train, while the England and the Continent of Europe, of wires of the Government system, passing which only 82 were Government messages. over mountains and over the plains, could The sum received for their transmission only be inspected by persons employed for was about £51,500, being nearly at the the purpose. If the Indian Government rate of £100,000 per annum for the Mek- intended to set up the principle that the ran portion of the line belonging to the carrying of telegraphic messages in India Indian Government. The charge for a ought to be in the hands of the Gomessage of twenty words from this country vernment for political purposes, he vento India was £5 1s., of which the Sub- tured to say that the proposition which marine Company only received 2s. 6d., he should make was deserving of the atand the Electric Telegraph Company tentive consideration of the House. In 3s. 6d. or 4s., the remainder being ab- this country the whole of the telegraphic sorbed by the other States and systems system was in the hands of private compathrough which it travelled. On arriving nies; but in India the Government, as at Kurrachee, the port of Scinde, and far as he was aware, intended to instithe most westerly town of India, the tute a totally different system. Now, he

thought he subject might fairly be dis- | India. Practically, indeed, there would be cussed in that House, if the Government three lines of communication, because if defended on such a ground their refusal to anything were to go wrong with that part allow a private company to utilize for the of the new system which had been sugbenefit of India the advantages which rail-gested eastward of Egypt, messages could ways conferred. He attributed the failure be forwarded to Alexandria and then be of the existing overland system to the fact passed along the Turkish line between that the only line of communication passed that place and Diasbekir on the main through Turkey. As long as we were de- Turkish line. He thought he had said pendent upon that line alone, it would be enough to lead the House to believe hopeless to expect that our communication that the subject into which he asked with India could be satisfactorily main- them to authorize a Committee to intained. A certain company had possessed quire was one deserving of the attention itself by a lease from this Government of of the Government. He would now make the exclusive use of the Malta and Alex- some remarks on the postal communication andria wire, and they had also entered into with India, which rested on the basis of a arrangements with the Italian Government, contract entered into with the Peninsular by which they would be granted the use and Oriental Company in January, 1853, of a wire through Italy with the privilege for the conveying of the India mails for fourof employing English signallers. When teen years. Considering the enormous adall the arrangements were completed the vances which had been made in the science company would be able to carry mes- of steam navigation between 1853 and the sages to Alexandria without any of the present time, it was only fair that the inconveniences which now existed. The public should have the advantage of any Pasha of Egypt was constructing a tele- improvement in respect to speed and price graph on the banks of the Nile, and it which had been brought about by any would cross to the Red Sea in latitude change during that period. There were 19, where a better bottom was to be besides other reasons which rendered it found than in the upper parts of the Red desirable that the relations existing between Sea. This line would then proceed by the Government and the Peninsular and way of Aden, and the southern coast of Oriental Company should be inquired into. Arabia. In fact, there would be a com- He was no opponent of the company, plete and entire line from England to which he believed had for many years past Bombay in the hands of an English com- rendered good service to the public, but pany, who would be responsible to the their vessels were not quite up to the public for any loss arising from their requirements of the present day in regard neglect. He had mentioned the progress to speed. Then, again, the Peninsular which had been made in establishing a and Oriental Company now had a monopoly different system altogether, and he might of the whole service, and he thought it was remark that the company would require desirable that the contract, which was no pecuniary assistance from the Govern- now subject to annual renewal, should ment at all. He wished it to be perfectly terminate a year hence. The Indian railunderstood that he was not stating these way system, it should be remembered, was particulars with the view of serving the in- approaching completion. In the course of terests of this particular company, and that another year the rail between Bombay and he was not personally interested in the Calcutta would be completed, excepting undertaking. He deemed it right to make about seventy miles. Then, of course, the this remark, because, on a former occasion, whole postal service of India would pass when he and Mr. Sotheron Estcourt ad- through Bombay by railway, and it would dressed the House on the subject of tele- be wholly unnecessary that any postal graphic communication through Asiatic communication should be maintained beTurkey, the right hon. Gentleman the pre- tween Aden and Calcutta. At present sent Chancellor of the Exchequer took the the postal days to India were the 3rd, opportunity of warning the House against 12th, 18th, and 27th of the month, withMembers making use of their position to out reference to the days of the week on support undertakings in which they were which those dates fall. About a year ago personally concerned. If this line were the mercantile community in England constructed, there would be two separate connected with India memorialized the and wholly distinct lines of telegraphic Postmaster General for a mail to India communication between this country and on a certain day of each week instead of

Mr. Crawford