Having made this explanation, he desired al-{ so to ask the favor of the Convention, to be excused from voting upon any question relating { to this matter. He did not want to give a vote upon any question in which he might be supposed to have any personal interest. If he were to vote he should of course give his vote with the same degree of conscientiousness as if he were voting upon any other question. He had thought it right to say this much, in regard to the proposition now before them, and he would not detain the Convention further than to repeat his desire to be excused from voting. Mr. KELSO said, he was satisfied that this

resolution ought to pass, and an investigation

be made. It was due to those who claim the

right to perform this duty, that the investigation

should be made. There would be, of course,

a difference of opinion about that right, and the opinion he held in regard to it, might be erroneous, and it was the more necessary therefore, that an investigation should be made. He hoped the resolution would be adopted.

Mr. KILGORE. Well, sir, let it done nevertheless at the office of the State Printer.

Mr. CLARKE, of Tippecanoe, said : he had very little objection to the resolution as it stood, but he thought it would be proper that the Consponsibility, in regard to this matter. If those vention should relieve the Secretary from regentlemen who were appointed State Printers had no right to take it from them. He did not tled to it; but he was willing to vote that they wish to decide, however, that they were entishould do this printing in order to relieve the Secretary from that which he would find to be

were entitled to do this work, the Convention

a somewhat delicate task. Besides if those

Gentlemen were entitled to do the work they would have a legal claim to compensation for it. He was unwilling to disturb any vested right.

Mr. BORDEN said, he had no objection to Mr. BORDEN said, he had no objection to the first part of the resolution, that a Committee be appointed to enquire into the matter.But the second part of the resolution, which directed the Secretary to employ a printer ad interim, appeared to him to be of more doubt ful propriety under the circumstances. If they were to direct the Secretary to employ a printer, and, as had been assumed, there was already a printer legally authorized to do the work, by official appointment, then the employment of another printer by the Secretary, would be in effect a violation of the contract with the per-lution so as to authorize the Secretary to get Mr. KILGORE proposed to amend the resoson appointed as State printer. It appeared to lution so as to authorize the Secretary to get him, therefore, that it would be better to strike the Printing done where it could be done the out the latter part of the resolution. cheapest and the most expeditiously.

Mr. DOBSON said, he did not see the necessity of delegating the power to the Secretary of the Convention, to employ a printer. They had made no order for the printing of anything, as yet.

He hoped that so much of the resolution as authorized him to employ a printer, would be stricken out.

Mr. KELSO said, he was of the opinion that that part of thc resolution ought to remain. It might be that the Secretary would not be required to perform the duty of employing a printer, but at the same time it was known to every member that there was work required to be done at this very moment. Printed lists of the names of members for taking the yeas and nays were required.

The PRESIDENT remarked, that he was informed by the Secretary that he was in want of such lists now.

Mr. KILGORE suggested, that the resolution should be modified so as to direct this work to be done at the office of the State Printer. His charges were regulated by law, whereas if the Secretary were directed to make a con

ment of the gentleman from Delaware-and The question was then taken on the amendit was not agreed to.

The question recurred on the adoption of the resolution.

Mr. MORRISON said, that being a regular bred printer, and knowing that this matter had to go among his immediete constituents, he desired to say a few words in relation to it.

He was opposed to beginning a system of economy by reducing the wages of the mechanic who had to perform this labor, in order that they might show themselves the peculiar guardians of the Treasury of the people. He intended no demagogueism in relation to this matter, but he thought the laborer worthy of his hire, and he believed that no man who was at all conversant with the business of printing would say that the prices paid to the State Printer were too high; and he trusted that the Convention would not condescend to so small a business as to undertake to make a profit out of a few day's printing. Indeed, he thought it probable that there would be little or no printing done until the committee had time to report. He would not undertake to determine whether this Convention had the inherent right to elect its own printer, or whether the law creating a State Printer was obligatory upon the Convention. Under this view of the question he should most

decidedly vote against striking out any part of ferently situated from almost every other memthe resolution.

ber of the Convention: he had come here for Mr. KELSO said, that, according to his un- the sole purpose of serving the country, and derstanding, when a man made a bargain with had no predilection for any particular interest; his eyes open, his labor was worth just exactly he had no particular plan or scheme to advance. what he undertook to do the work for, and he That being the position he occupied, he would understood further that a printer was no better go with his friend from Delaware, in the propothan any other mechanic, and that mechanics {sition he had made to give the printing of the were no better than other people, except when Convention to the printer who would perform they behave themselves better. It was proba- the work in the best manner and upon the most ble that there would not be occasion for $10 favorable terms. It was true that the honoraworth of printing previous to the report of the ble gentleman on his left (Mr. Chapman) had committee being made, and he thought it would been appointed by the Legislature to do the be quite as well to let the Secretary make his State Printing; but he did not conceive that the own bargain, and get the work done where he Legislature in electing him to that office could could get it done the soonest. He was for pay- have contemplated the performance of the work ing a fair price, and whoever was acquainted of the Convention, because in the act authorizwith his course ever since he had had the honoring the call of the Convention, it was provided of occupying a seat in the Legislature of the that the Convention should be entitled to elect State, in this end of the Capitol and in the oth- their own officers. This was a Convention of the er, knew that he would be the last man to un-people, and it was their duty to act with a view dertake to undervalue the services of any man, to economy. He hoped the amendment would or to reduce his pay below what those services be adopted. were worth. He was, however, for admitting a fair competition, and for allowing printers to make their propositions, and for permitting the Secretary to get the work done on fair terms.

Mr. NAVE said, there were several points that ought to be understood before voting upon the proposition. They ought to be informed as to the legal rights of the present contractors for the public printing. It was important, before taking any step towards the employment of a printer, to ascertain whether the existing contract for the public printing was binding upon the Convention. If it was binding upon the Convention, the Public Printer would be entitled to be paid for the work, and if this was the case he took the ground that the Convention had no right to employ any other person for a single hour than the State Printer. Until this question was settled therefore, in reference to whether the contract was binding upon the Convention, it appeared to him that no other printer ought to be employed, because if they proceeded to appoint an individual to do the printing of the Convention before that question was settled, it might prove to be a violation of the contract made by the State with the State Printer, and he would have a right to institute a suit at law for the purpose of maintaining his legal rights, and thus the State would be involved unnecessarily in litigation. He was not for interfering with the rights of individuals, either those now employed by the State or any others, and it was perfectly immaterial to him who were the persons who had been elected State Printers. This was a question which required investigation, and no man ought to be employed to print for the Convention until the question was settled.

Mr. STEELE said, he should vote for the motion to strike out, and he desired to assign the reason for that vote. He was perhaps dif

Mr. BASCOM said, he rose not to discuss the legality of the claim of the State Printer to do the printing of the Convention, but to combat in the outset, as he should do at all times, the system of letting out the public printing by contract. Gentlemen who had so great a regard for economy, were, in such a case as this, embarrassing themselves unnecessarily. He was in favor of economy, but not at the expense of the laboring community. In giving the work to the lowest bidder, they were but putting money into the hands of the contractors, at the expense of those who performed the labor. If gentlemen would turn to the House Journals they would find letters from practical printers of this State-and among others from Mr. Defrees-who appeared to be anxious to get a nibble at this printing, in relation to this subject. [Mr. Bascom read a brief abstract from one of the letters referred to.]

and to throw the printing into the market to be When they undertook to cut down the prices hawked about and given to the lowest bidder, they were acting in direct contravention of the interest of the laborer, and depriving him of a

reasonable remuneration for his labor.

If the interests of any portion of the community are to be preferred to those of another, the interest of the laborer should be preferred. Wherever the contract system had been tried it had been found to be prejudicial to the laborer as well as to the Government, and the work had invariably been done in a inferior manner-the material was neces

very

sarily inferior, and the work inferior. There was no man who understood anything about printing who would rise and say that too high a price was paid for the printing for the State. It appeared to him that it was not the proper policy to undertake to get the work done more

cheaply than the Public Printer would do it. He was entirely opposed to the proposition. Mr. KILGORE withdrew his amendment. Mr. STEELE enquired if the resolution was still open to amendment.

The PRESIDENT replied that it was open was open to amendment.

Mr. STEELE said, he would renew the amendment of the gentleman from Delaware. He desired that the work should be done where it could be done the cheapest and most expeditiously. His understanding of the act authorizing the call of a Convention, was that it gave them power to elect all their officers. That being the case he was inclined to act directly in accordance with it.

at the expense of the State, and to this end we respectfully decline the services of a Stenographer tendered us by the Legislature.

Mr. OWEN offered the following as a substitute for the resolution of the gentleman from Jefferson:

Resolved, That in compliance with the provisions of the act, providing for a call of the Convention of the people of the State of Indiana, to revise, amend, and alter the Constitu{tion of said State, which directs the appointment of a competent Stenographer by the Governor of the State, to report their debates, the appointment made by the Governor, of Harvey Fowler, of Washington City, for that purpose, be, and the same is hereby, recognized and approved.

Mr. MAGUIRE said, he hoped the gentleman would withdraw the amendment for the Resolved, That the certificate of the Presipresent. He could renew his proposition if he dent of the Convention, as provided in said act, thought proper after the report of the commit-be from time to time issued to the said Harvey tee was made. Fowler for his remuneration, which shall be at the usual rate of compensation for reporting the debates in the Congress of the United States.

Mr. STEELE said, he had no objection to withdraw the amendment.

The PRESIDENT remarked, that under the 32d rule of the House the proposition of the gentleman from Posey could not be moved as a substitute for the resolution of the gentleman from Jefferson.

The amendment was accordingly withdrawn. Mr. FOSTER said, he was sorry that the amendment was withdrawn. He had himself { proposed a Buncombe resolution yesterday and unfortunately the chair had decided that it was out of order for irrevalency or incongruity, and consequently his resolution did not appear in print. He rose now merely to express his sor-substitute, then, for the present, until the resorow that it was not published, so that it might lution of the gentleman was disposed of, and go to his constituents. he thought there would be but little difficulty or hesitation about disposing of it by voting it down.

The question being taken on the resolution of the gentleman from Carroll, it was adopted.

Mr. OWEN said he would withdraw the

tion the following communication from His {lution, he begged leave to assure the ConvenExcellency, GOVERNOR WRIGHT:

EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT,
October 9, 1850.)

HON. GEO. W. CARR-

President of the Convention:

tion it was not intended for Buncombe, but was the result of a sincere and thorough convic tion of duty. He believed that its adoption would tend greatly to facilitate our public labors here, while it would be the means of a very considerable saving of expense, and withworking any, the least detriment to the public interest, or discredit to this body, either individually or collectively.

In pursuance of the act of the General As-out sembly, approved January 18, 1850, providing for the call of a Convention, I have appointed and commissioned HARVEY FOWLER, Stenographer, to report the debates of said Convention.

I have the honor to be,

Yours, most respectfully, JOSEPH A. WRIGHT. The communication having been read by the Secretary

In the organization of this Convention, we have elected certain officers, whose duty it will be to keep a regular journal of all our proceedings from day to day; and this journal, together with that organic law which may result from our deliberations will necessarily have to be published and circulated at the public expense, that our constituents may know what we, their pubMr. GREGG offered the following preamble {lic servants, have been doing here; and if our and resolution: works speak well of us, it is all that is necesWHEREAS, It is desirable to complete thesary-further than this, I am unwilling to tax work delegated to us by the people with as little delay as possible, and with an eye to the strictest economy consistent with the honor of this body, and the interest of those whom we represent. Therefore,

Resolved, That we deem it inexpedient to report and publish the debates of this Convention

the public treasury for their enlightenment.

It is an old but trite adage, that a man should cut his coat according to his cloth. It is equally true that a prudent man should always live within his income. This certainly holds good: in matters of domestic economy, and why not apply it to public affairs? Now, the Legisla

:

ture has undertaken to give us the whole cloth would necessarily tend to protract the session from which to cut the garment. They have -a result I most sincerely deprecate, as my shown us the size of our pile, and it becomes { private business demands my attention elseus as prudent husbandmen to graduate our ex- where, and I doubt not it is equally so with penses accordingly. They have appropriated many others. the sum of $40,000 to pay the whole expenses And do you ask, why the employment of a of this Convention, including the pay of a Stenographer to report our debates should Stenographer, the necessary printing and sta- necessarily prolong the session? You know, tionery-and doubtless they conceived this to Mr. President, and so do every one of us, that be a most munificent and bountiful appropria- mankind are naturally garrulous, fond of contion, altogether adequate to the ends to be ac- troversial debate and litigation-and give them complished. Now let us see how far this ap- a loose rein, and a proper incentive to action, propriation will carry us, under the most pru- and they will talk forever. There is a wonderdent and economical system that we can adopt.ful proclivity in the human mind for immortaliThe daily expenses of this Convention will be ty; an innate grasping after fame and notoover $500, exclusive of printing and stationery.riety; an insatiable longing for a name to live This in sixty days will amount to $30,000. when we are dead. Such is the phantom we The mileage of members will be about $4,000 are now following; and to most of us it will more, making $34,000-thus leaving but $6,- prove as evanescent and unsubstantial, as the 000 of the appropriation to pay for printing the "baseless fabric of a vision." But still we foljournal of our proceedings, a large edition of low it-blindly pursue it, through all the dethe constitution in pamphlet form, for circula-vious windings of this mortal career. tion among the people, together with such other printing as may be deemed necessary in the progress of our labors; a sum which I fear fear will be found altogether inadequate to foot the bill.

Now here are at least 150 of us, all deeply imbued with the same perhaps laudable, ambition to do something to immortalize our names, and transmit them to posterity; and it is quite natural that we should seek to avail ourselves of Now this calculation, you will perceive, is this golden opportunity, now offered us to do so. based upon the supposition that our session And how is this desirable end to be attained will last but sixty days. And, although it is Why sir, each of us have got to set our wits to the opinion of many gentlemen, both in and work, to concoct a speech-no matter on what out of this Convention, that we shall not be subject, nor how irrelevant it may be to the subable to get through in less than three or four ject matter under consideration, so it be of sufmonths, still, I undertake to say, that if we ad- ficient length, and full of sound and fury, sigdress ourselves to the work as we should do, nifying nothing. These speeches must neceswithout wasting too much of our time in mak-sarily be reported by the Stenographer, and ing unnecessary speeches for home consump-by him written out for the Press, for no one tion, we shall be able to complete our labors in { else but he can do it. And these speeches, I less than sixty days to the entire satisfaction of} take it, will occupy about one day of the sesthe people and to the credit of ourselve, sand {sion to each, provided they be of sufficient on the score of expense, within the appropria-length to occupy one hour to one hour and a tion made by the Legislature. But, sir, let us quarter in their delivery. I say we will not be adopt the course plainly indicated by the Legis- able to get through more than one of these set lature. Let us admit upon this floor the Ste- speeches per day, for that will be as much as nographer so kindly provided for us by his Ex- any one Stenographer can possibly manage to cellency, the Governor, with the understanding take down and write out, and do justice to himthat all the speeches made here are to be re- self, unless he has a constitution like a steam ported at large, and published in a book, for the locomotive, that can go ahead forever and nevbenefit of our constituents, and the enlighten-er tire. Like the rest of us, he must have his ment of posterity-and I will not attempt to set bounds to the duration of our session, nor limit to its expense. I profess to be a practical printer, and know something about what it costs. And let me assure you that more than one half of the appropriation will be absorbed in paying for the publication of our speeches, and other documents, and we shall have little left to pay our current expenses here, without asking for a further appropriation, which I am unwilling to do.

But the matter of expense is not the only objection to be considered. I take it that the employment of one single Stenographer on this floor (and that is all the law provides for)

hours of relaxation from labor, of recreation, and of rest, or he will soon wear out-and then we will be thrown back upon our own resources, and have to do our own reporting. The necessary consequence then would be, that we must accommodate our movements to his convenience, or some of our most brilliant efforts would be wholly lost to the world—a calamity! aye, a public calamity, not to be thought

of for a moment.

Thus you perceive that to make but one set speech round on the general average, would require a session of 150 days, or about six months. And I fear, sir, that many of us will not be satisfied with any thing short of the

round dozen. Why sir, I am told that in the Kentucky Convention where they employed a Stenographer to report, one member alone made 199 speeches, and would have made the even 200 if the previous question had not been sprung upon him. This was going it strong, but if some of the members on this floor, hold out to the end as they have begun, I would match them, for wind and bottom, against the best blood and chivalry of Kentucky.

Now sir, assuming that we make, during the session, the number of speeches indicated. These, when printed in ordinary sized type, will cover an area of at least 2,400 pages, making three volumes of 800 pages. The journal of our proceedings will make another volume of about the same magnitude. And thus, by following the promptings of our own personal vanity, will the names, the profound cogitations, and the wonderful works of this august assembly be forever embalmed in four huge octavos, perhaps beautifully embossed and bound in calf. And these precious documents will be distributed throughout the land, to adorn the shelves of our public and private libraries, or transmitted to our great grand children, as invaluable memorials of ancestral greatness; thus evidencing to posterity, that such distinguished bipeds as you and I were once, and that we left our mark. But at what a sacrifice of time and money will this be effected. I pray you to count the cost before you embark in it.

work committed to their hands, I say, to such an unpretending body as this, the old fashioned mode of reporting will answer their purpose quite well enough, while it will cost their constituents less.

Sir, I once took a lesson in practical stenography, that will last me as long as I live. I remember it the more vividly, because it was at the time the source of much chagrin and mortification to me. And it is this circumstance, perhaps, which has tinged my mind with a degree of acerbity towards the whole profession. It was on the occasion of Mr. Clay's visit to this city, in the summer of '42. Among the many thousands who came up hither on that occasion to see and to hear the great Commoner, were several of the leading whig editors of the State, your humble servant among the number, for I was at that time the editor of the Political Beacon, published at Lawrenceburg. We came here not only to see and hear Mr. Clay, but to report his speech as far as we were able, for the benefit of our readers. The meeting was held in a beautiful grove adjoining the city. Near the speaker's stand was a large table prepared for the express accommodation of the gentlemen of the Press who might be present, and several of us availed ourselves of the proffered courtesy. I soon found myself comfortably seated in an easy chair, with paper before me and pencil in hand, ready to commence the important work But seriously, Mr. President, we need not be of reporting Mr. Clay's speech, while around under the least apprehension, that our constitu- me were several other gentlemen of the tripod ents will be kept in ignorance of our doings, in a like state of preparation. Well sir, just should we dispense with the services of a Ste- before Mr. Clay commenced his speech, a nographer, as contemplated by the resolution stranger, whose name I never knew, pressing under consideration. Our doors are always Our doors are always his way through the crowd, came to me and open-our deliberations public. Many of the introduced himself as a regular bred Stenograleading papers of the State have their reporters pher, saying that he had reported for many on the ground; and I doubt not they will be years in Washington City, for the National Inable to keep their readers well posted up in all telligencer and Congressional Globe, and that matters essential for them to know. And he had often reported after Mr. Clay, in Conshould any of us be so fortunate as to make a gress. The gentleman's appearance, it is true, speech worthy of being read and remembered was not very prepossessing. But as I had no beyond the current hour, doubt not for a mo- time to stand upon ceremony, or examine crement that these ever wakeful sentinels on the dentials of character, and being withal rather watch-tower will be fully able, and altogether an indifferent reporter, I gladly availed mywilling to do us justice. "Away then, with yourself of his kind offer to take my place and reStenography, and give us the unsubsidized jot-port the speech for me. And so giving up my tings of the public press. Your scientific touches may do well enough for another meridian, where they can spend eight whole months in a single Omnibus, at $8 per day, eating canvassback ducks, and drinking hock and sherry. It may answer well enough for such laggards in legislation, as are found about Washington, who can talk through a whole session of unparalleled prolixity without ever losing sight of the starting point. But for a working men's Convention, such as this, who receive but $3 per day, and live on common doings, and have no particular inducement to prolong their stay beyond the successful accomplishment of the

comfortable seat, I took my place behind him, and for two mortal hours I stood upon my feet, protecting him from the external pressure of the crowd, lest they should jostle his arm, and thereby cause him to lose a single word or thought of the great speech. But I felt this privation as nothing, when I reflected upon the great advantage it would give me over the rest of my cotemporaries of the Press. Through the kindly aid of this gentleman I should now be enabled to spread before my readers Mr. Clay's speech in extenso, while they would be able to give but a mere skeleton of it, a birdseye view of some of the leading thoughts. And