AN IMPARTIAL REPORT OF THE DEBATES THAT OCCUR IN THE TWO HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT, In the Course of the Fourth Seffion of the Seventeenth Parliament WITH SOME ACCOUNT OF THE Respective sPEAKERS, AND NOTES AND ILLUSTRATIONS. INCLUDING COPIES OF ALL STATE PAPERS, TREATIES, CONVENTIONS, &.. By WILLIAM WOODFALL, AND ASSISTANTS. VOL. IV. LONDON; PUBLISHED BY T, CHAPMAN, No. 151, FLEET-STREET, 1794. 273 WOODFALL'S PARLIAMENTARY REPORTS. HOUSE OF LORDS. MESSAGE FROM THE KING. HE Order of the Day for the Lords to be fummoned, Thaving been read, Lord Grenville rofe, and prefented a Meffage from his Majefty. The fame having been read, Lord Grenville moved, "That it be taken into confidera❝tion on Monday." The Duke of Grafton attacked his Majefty's minifters, for bringing forward a meffage from his Majefty, ftating that the country was in imminent danger, and poftponing the investigation of the measure, which they meant to oppofe to that danger, for forty-eight hours. His Grace alluded to what had paffed in the Houfe of Commons, and thence by comparison inferred that the minifters were deficient in that refpect and attention which was due to the Houfe, and to the dignity of their Lordships, as forming collectively in their Parliamentary capacity an effential, and at least a co-equal branch of the Le giflature. The Earl of Lauderdale concurred in opinion with the Noble Duke, and purfued the fame topic, but carried it farther, by contending, that as a communication had been. made to the other Houfe of Parliament, and they had acted upon it, merely to ftate the King's meffage, and not at the fame time to make the communication, was to degrade the dignity of the House, by treating them as if they were fecondary, and fubfervient to the Houfe of Commons. He asked on what principle it was to be maintained, that the Houfe of Lords were not entitled by minifters to the fame refpect as had been fhewn to the Houfe of Commons? He, for one, fhould expect fome further grounds to be laid before their Lordships, before he could confent to give his fanction to any meafure which minifters might think proper to propose. B 2 The 1 The import of the meffage was important and preffing; the fooner, therefore, the Houfe knew, and could proceed to deliberate upon and difcufs it, the better. Lord Grenville rose to justify himself and the rest of his Majesty's minifters from the imputation urged against them by the Noble Duke and the Noble Earl. Far was it from their intentions to treat that House unbecomingly, or with the smallest disrespect; nor could he conceive, that, on a fair confideration of the proceeding of that day, any such inference was warrantable. The Noble Duke had argued, as if it had been the invariable practice and cuftom, when a message was brought down from his Majefty, for a motion to be made for an Addrefs of Thanks for the fame, and that it should be followed up by another motion, to refolve that his Majefty's meffage fhould be taken into confideration the very next day of the Houfe's meeting. If the Noble Duke, from fo long a feclufion from Parliamentary business, had forgot what the practice of the Houfe was, it would not be amifs for the Noble Duke to reconfider the fubject, and govern his political conduct accordingly. The mode adopted that day appeared to him to have been rather calculated to avoid cenfure, than to provoke it. The fubftance of his Majefty's meffage was confeffedly of the utmost importance; was it therefore a matter of blame in minifters, that by the mode of proceeding adopted, they afforded their Lordfhips time for deliberation? Had the cafe been otherwise, had they brought in the meffage, and fuddenly propofed a measure upon the fubject, the Houfe, with a much stronger colour of reafon, might have complained of unneceffary precipitation and indecent hurry.. The Noble Earl had mentioned the meafure in agitation in another place, and had chofen to fuppofe that their Lordships were treated as the dependants of that House, at least that minifters meant to put them in that degrading fituation. The Noble Earl well knew, that no fuch thing was intended, and that it was impoffible, under the circumftances of the cafe, to act otherwife than minifters had done. It was perfectly clear, that his Majefty's minifters had not acted upon this occafion in a novel and unprecedented manner: There were a variety of precedents upon their Lordfhips' Journals, amply fufficient for their juftification. If thofe precedents were not exactly followed, he wished to have the difference pointed out-the difference was, that his Majefty's minifters, as he had before ftated, had given more time for confideration and deliberation than had been done upon former occafions. He wifhed particularly to call their attention attention to the cafe which happened in the year 1722, and which was to be found upon their Lordships' Journals: At that time there was a Meffage from his Majefty, stating the existence of a plot (Layer's plot) to overturn the existing Government; on that very fame day, a Bill fimilar to the prefent was introduced and passed, and was fent to the Commons. The cafe of Counfellor Layer was a cafe in which the House of Lords had, without any additional proofs to the King's Meffage, paffed a Bill in one fingle day: In the prefent inftance, time was given to their Lordships for confideration, though the danger was of a nature that called for the speedy interference of Parliament. With regard to that Houfe regulating their proceedings by the proceedings of the other House of Parliament, while fo good an understanding continued between the two Houfes as happily exifted at prefent, it was not at all extraordinary, that the one Houfe fhould be in fome meafure apprised of matters of an important and preffing nature in agitation in the other, and should regulate their own proceedings accordingly. The Duke of Grafton faid, he was afraid he muft ftill differ with the Noble Lord about an effential point, viz. the conftitution of that Houfe. As long as the House existed-as long as the dignity of their Lordfhips remained, either in shape or fubftance, he would ftand up in its fupport, in fupport of their rights and privileges, in the face of their Lordships, in his place as a Peer of Parliament; and he would alfo maintain the fame argument to the people at large. He was obliged to the Noble Lord for the advice he had been fo good as to give him respecting his political conduct; but he had long fince adopted the line of politics he thought it right to pursue, and he had no objection to meet the most fcrupulous inquiry into his political conduct, from the first moment of his public life to the present hour. He ftill continued to think the communicating a meffage of fuch importance, and then delaying to follow it up with the notification of fome meafure which appeared to his Majefty's ministers proper for the occafion, a degradation of the dignity of their Lordships, and an infult (if he might be allowed to ufe fuch a word) to the Legiflature itself. It was well known that a fimilar mefiagė had been delivered to the other Houfe, which his Majefty's minifters had brought forward that day before their Lordships, and that a communication had been made upon it.-Why was it not thought fit to make a fimilar communication to their Lordhips? The Noble Secretary of State had argued, that moving that his Majefty's meffage be taken into conûderation on |