there are limits on what you can take as gifts because they may be seen as some kind of pay-off or some way to get your approval. But in Indian culture, you know as well as I do, to refuse a gift given by, particularly another Indian person, to refuse it is very insulting. How do you define it? How do you draw the line? How do you do that in your tribe in which a person can be accused of say, nepotism? I mean, in the traditional Indian way, you're supposed to take care of your relatives. I mean, you're just considered lower than dirt if you don't try to take care of the people, your relatives. But once you're in tribal council, then you're supposed to abandon that, I guess. And now compare that with what the Federal Government has said, that means you cannot try to provide for your own relatives. This dichotomy is very, very difficult on Indian people. Can you give us your perspective on those two things? Ms. ANDERSON. You know, like I said, our economic development is based on our values, you know, and in our culture. And every one of these meetings that we had, we had elders as advisers. We also have a per curium policy that contractors can take gifts or whatever from a contractor. So I think our culture is the most important place where we, you know, where we base our statutes, our that we live under. The CHAIRMAN. You also have, your tribe clearly uses a separation of powers as government. The judges, for instance, in your tribe, if they make a decision that the council doesn't like, can you recall him and throw him out or something; you're divided enough so that they can make independent decisions even though you might not like it as a council person? MS. ANDERSON. Each of the, you know, the traditional-they are all separate. Whatever the court decides, that's what it is. We have no way, we cannot interfere with any of the court decisions. The CHAIRMAN. It seems as I move around, those tribes that do have a very clear separation of powers, seem to have more stable government, and I certainly support that. But Mr. Mason, could you give us maybe a very short update on the status of the project involved with the oil and gas drilling on your reservation? And the reason I ask that is because we, although we're not involved so much in this committee, there are a number of court cases now working their way through the process, particularly on those reservations that are fee and trust land, you know, checkerboard land about who owns the underlying oil and gas. And court cases that have not gone to the supreme court yet but are working their way through, maybe will have major impact on either the tribes or the non-Indians who believe that they own the oil/gas under their fee land within the boundaries of the reservation. Give us the status of the oil project on your reservation? Mr. MASON. Senator, there really is no question about the ownership of the oil and gas because we're talking about trust lands. The problem we have, in fact, is attracting companies that come on the reservation for exploration and production has to do with the regulations and the bureaucracy. Because if you look around the reservation, the first major oil well that was producing in the Williston Basin was Iverson No. 1, north of the reservation. And then there was a reservation well, Woodrel Star Well, No. 1, which ervation was minimal; although, if you were to take a map to some of the discussions of what we're trying to do, there are over probably 1,500 producers that are right, come up to the boundary of the reservation and stop. And we have probably less than one-half of a dozen producers now on the reservation. Although, we have had great interest in what they call the mount logical formation that comes all the way from the southwestern part of the State coming up north. And even recently within the company that we're trying to deal with out of Canada, they have set up two wells. One is just right on, in fact I believe it's within the boundaries of the reservation but it's on fee land. And so the barriers that the Federal bureaucracy puts up in front of us continuously, even until just the other day, they are now asking for some more of their regulations as policy. It's their policy; it's not law. And what is happening is their policy-and how they interpret that. You know, Senator, and I had one of our lawyers, our staff attorney, sit on a conference call with me when we talked to the head of the Resources Development Division in Denver, CO. And this person, who I knew for many years, said, I don't care what you say or what your tribal government or what your people say, Bud, we know what is best, and we're going to do what is best for you. I mean, that is so belittling of our people. And also it's hampering, you know, any progress that we can make, and our people that probably make just so small amounts. The CHAIRMAN. I understand what you're saying. The problem. we face in the course of Government today, the divided Government with the three branches of Government is that more and more rules are being passed without regulatory authority to do it. When we were out of session last term, in fact, it's my understanding between the first year of the last Congress and the second year of the last Congress, we were out about 3 months-there was over 4,000 new rules and regulations implemented when we weren't even in town. Yet, of course, being elected, we're the ones that usually get the heat when things go wrong in that nature. As you probably know, if there's not a law defining something, then rules and regulations take precedent. In addition to that, when we pass a law with a certain intent, there are rules and regulations that define what we meant and how it's going to be implemented. And sometimes, unfortunately, the rules and regulations-I mean, they are 180 degrees different than what we intended. And so even when we have your best interest at heart, when we pass something, it might not be implemented that way because of the enforced mechanism. The enforced mechanism is the branch of the administration we've heard from John about the BIA, about how some things are enforced that actually are the detriment other than helping. But the reason I wanted to ask you about your oil and gas is, I'm not sure you're aware or maybe are you of the-it's really an action brought by the Ute Tribe of Colorado against Amoco. And the law says basically-it's in the appellate courts now, but it deals with coal methane gas. There's billions of cubic feet under that particular reservation. And the Ute's position is that coal methane is a property of coal. Since coal was reserved for them, and the coal nobody ever heard of it when the treaties were set up and the reservations were set up. Now, we have a checkerboard reservation with roughly 3,000 non-Indian landowners living within that boundary who have drilled on their own property and are getting royalties from those coal methane wells. And under this court decree, the tribals all got it, no matter if it's on private land or not. It's created some real problems, as you might guess, as well as some racial backlash, it's unfortunate to say. A lot of those owners, almost 3,000, some of them borrowed money from a bank to build a home, and they are paying with the royalty payments, and they're going to lose their homes, as simple as that, a number of them are. It's a very, very difficult thing to work though. Of course, we're not really involved because it would be in the courts. But the courts may set a precedent that's going to reverberate through Indian country nationwide. And clearly no matter who loses, we may have to be involved in some legislation in the future. But I mentioned that because I wasn't sure you were aware of that. Mr. MASON. We are aware. The CHAIRMAN. You are. Okay. John, let me ask you something, too. First, I'm very happy to see that you are getting involved so much in high tech web sites. I mentioned to Senator Wellstone, it sure beats smoke signals. I know we all have to use the modern conveniences to move ahead. Does the National Tribal Development Association support changes in the law affecting tax steps after 1982 regarding tribal bonding authority? Mr. SUNCHILD. Yes; in fact, it's included in there. The CHAIRMAN. Okay. It's included in that document. Okay. Jim, I just want to ask you one question and that is in the United South Eastern Tribes-and I don't know if you can speak for all of them-can you give us just a little idea about how those tribes were involved in tourism, particularly in the business in general. I remember years ago that some tribes were on the forefront of tourism. In fact, there is now, what you probably know, a National Indian Tourism Association, I think it's called, it's out of Phoenix, AZ. And those tribes that want to join in that, they can be encouraged to do that on the reservation. But some tribes did not want tourism. They felt that people would come and look at them or stare at them like they were strange because they were Indian people or something. Mr. JAMES MARTIN. Out of the 23 tribes that are member tribes of USET, I would venture to say the overwhelming majority have some sort of tourism. Certainly out of those, there are about 13 of them that have some sort of dealing with the reservation. Nine of them have the casinos. A lot of the tourism is built around the casinos. Before that, though, each of the tribes, particularly like the Eastern Band of Cherokee Mr. JAMES MARTIN. In fact, one of these was a wonderful package they put on nearly every year in the summer. Alabama and Texas are very big into tourism. The CHAIRMAN. Is that considered part of their business development plan in most places or was that sort of sprung up by Mr. JAMES MARTIN. Actually prior to gaming, tourism probably was the mainstay of economic development for every one of our tribes; the Seminole Tribe of Florida. No doubt everyone understands all the tourism goes to The CHAIRMAN [continuing]. Is selling crafts all part of that, too? Mr. JAMES MARTIN. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. We're dealing with trying to get more money into the arts and crafts because it has become a very important part of home industry on the reservation for the people that prefer to work at home. It's very complicated with all the import of goods that are being marketed under the guise of Indian arts or Indian crafts or so on. Mr. JAMES MARTIN. What our tribes are trying to do, the ones that have been successful in gaming, are turning to the other tribes to see what services those other tribes who have not been able to get into gaming yet, may be able to offer to the gaming tribes as far as services and how that we can expand economic development amongst our tribes to whether they are just counting on non-Indian industry coming in, it can be Indian-to-Indian tribes providing services and goods. The CHAIRMAN. Before I turn to Senator Wellstone, let me tell this little story. I used to live in Japan some years ago. I had a friend, a Japanese friend who was coming to America; he was really interested in American Indians. He wanted to buy some American Indian souvenirs, arts and crafts. He came back with a whole box load of stuff that he showed to me. He bought this bow and arrow. The bottom of this little bow, there was a sticker that said, "Made in Japan." And when I showed him that, he was very upset. Senator Wellstone. Senator WELLSTONE. Let me ask three basic questions, whichever one of you wants to answer. First, how important do you consider education as part of your economic development strategy? Ms. ANDERSON. Senator Wellstone, our top priority is education, now that we built our schools and they have scholarship programs. It's one of our top priorities. Senator WELLSTONE. Well, do you agree? You don't need to say the same thing, if you have a different view. Mr. MASON. We just recently had a survey done on our reservation and this was for the expenditures of economic recovery funds that we're now having. And I believe it was health was No. 1 and education was No. 2. But I'd like to mention something that the Senator brought up, which is really interesting, is that between 71 percent and 75 percent of our people said that their health was from good to excellent, when one in two have diabetes, so the norm is being healthy. So there are some norms that you have to take a look at that aren't really acceptable. Mr. SUNCHILD. I will respond in this way: I am provided with a good hunter. And nowadays you have to have a job skill to provide is limitations here of 2 years to 5 years you have to find a job. And many of these recipients, the welfare recipients are not trained, so education is important. And if not economic education, at least vocational education so they are being taught to work with their hands. Senator WELLSTONE. In Montana, what is the date when people are cut off? Mr. SUNCHILD. Two years from last July. Senator WELLSTONE. Okay. So then Montana is not the full 5 years? Mr. SUNCHILD. Right. Mr. JAMES MARTIN. Senator Wellstone, I think Chief Martin touched on this his tribe took and insisted that their tribal members go into middle management, but also into diversified businesses. Now they're taking gaming and opening up other busi nesses. I think you will find that every tribe is taking their gaming revenue and diversifying because they understand just like any type of fad, gaming will play out some day. The good ones are going to be the ones that have diversified and education. And every one of those tribes are key components of it. Senator WELLSTONE. I appreciate that, Mr. Martin. I have a feeling that if you look at everything, you would probably find that the jobs right now, whether it be gaming or a spin-off of other economic development, gaming might not be here forever. Probably very few Indian people are in those top positions right now. The goal, of course, is to change that. Mr. MASON. I would counter that to say why should it be necessary that all Indians have to go to gaming? I much prefer that Indians go to the other diversified industries. Senator WELLSTONE. I agree. I'm just simply saying that I didn't get a breakdown of those 6,000 jobs as to see to what extent the people in Indian country were in those top management jobs. Second question. Education. We all agree that education is key to entrepreneurship. We all agree that education is the key to empowerment. In other words, like Marge Anderson said when she started out-you know, I don't remember; your words were more eloquent than mine-but she said that a number of years ago it was despair. Now, there's much more hope. People really see the possibility, right? Empowerment. Among the young people in your nations, what percentage of them graduate from high school and go on to college? Mr. JAMES MARTIN. I can speak to my tribe at Poarch Creek. When I was a tribal administrator, and I have been at USET now for a little over 3 years, during the late 1970's and early 1980's, we had a dropout rate of about 67 percent. Senator WELLSTONE. Did everybody hear that? A dropout rate of 67 percent. Mr. JAMES MARTIN. What we had to do, and it was a fundamental premise, south Alabama is very rural. Our Indian people, mothers and fathers scratched out what they considered to be a decent standard of living. And the children saw that they had food on |