Mr. EDWARDS. Thank you very much.

The next witness is Ann Gillespie of Fort Worth, Texas.

STATEMENT OF ANN GILLESPIE, FORT WORTH, TX

Ms. GILLESPIE. Thank you very much.

I am 31 years old. I am the single adoptive parent of one daughter who is now eight years old. I work in the media, and I would like to stress before I start my testimony that while a lot of people are conned into these centers because they're young or misinformed, when I found out I was pregnant I was informed, I knew about these clinics, my station has been following these stories for months, so you can be informed and think you know what you're doing and still end up in one of these clinics.

It was in July 1985 that I found out positively that I was pregnant. I went to my personal doctor and had a pregnancy test. My doctor doesn't believe in abortions, so I decided to go to a clinic. I looked in the 1985/86 Yellow Pages of the Southwestern Bell telephone book under "Abortion Information and Services." There I saw an ad for the Problem Pregnancy Center. The ad mentioned that they were a member of the Abortion Action Affiliates, that I could get counseling, which I really didn't feel that I needed, but it would be free and confidential, as well as the pregnancy test, which again I didn't go into the clinic seeking a pregnancy test because I already knew that I was.

However, when I called the clinic to make my appointment, they told me that despite the fact that I knew I was pregnant I still needed to come and get the test because they really couldn't help me until they knew exactly how far along I was, and I thought that made sense, so I went along with it, made my appointment for me and a girlfriend who was also pregnant, and my friend, younger than me, in her early 20's, a bit more confused about her situation, so I said, "Why don't you go ahead and come in with me, and at least make sure that you're pregnant and see what you want to do."

I hung up the phone and realized that I had forgotten to ask them the price for the abortion, so I immediately called back and asked them directly, "How much do you charge for abortions?" The woman told me that they ranged from $200 to $600, depending on how far along you were. Again, I would need to come in and get the test and be seen before they could tell me exactly.

The next afternoon, my girlfriend and I went into the clinic. Again, it looked like any medical doctor's office you've ever been in. There was an older woman who was at the reception desk. I was asked to fill out a questionnaire where I gave out personal information that I would have never given out had I known that I was not in a medical facility, as I don't think that my religion, who the father of my baby was, or any of my personal life is any of their business. Just thinking that I was in a doctor's office, I gave this information.

They then took my urine sample. When the director came out, he gave me the results of the test. He told me the next step was counseling. I told him that I really didn't think I needed counsel

abortion. He said, "Well, you really need to have some counseling to make sure that you're doing the right thing." So I assumed that the counseling I was going to get was more or less what the procedure would entail, medical information, facts.

So they put me into the room. I talked to the director for a moment or two about my personal situation and why I wanted to get an abortion, and he turned on a tape machine-it was a slide show-turned off the lights, and left the room.

Well, as I say, being a member of the media for 14 years, it took me about a minute to kind of go, well, if this place gives abortions, they certainly must want to make sure that you know what you're doing and that you really want it, because this is an awful biased presentation of the facts. I'm talking Domesday music, "Da-da-dada; three women in a thousand will die of"-you know "trauma because they"-I mean it was just like-you know.

So after about two or three minutes I definitely realized that I had been had and that this must be one of the pro-life clinics. However, out of curiosity I did watch a few more moments of the film until I just became so angry that I shut the machine off.

I then went out in the hall, and the director was out there. I assume he was waiting by the door for me, I don't know, but he was right out there, and I said, "Look, I've seen enough of this film. Who do I need to talk to about an abortion?" and it was at that point that he told me, "We don't do abortions here." Okay.

They said that they would give you information and services, okay. So I said, "Can you refer me to a place to get an abortion if you don't get them here?" "No, I cannot do that."

At this point, I remembered that my girlfriend also was in the building. Again, I want to stress that my girlfriend's situation was different than mine, because she was really confused and had a lot more trauma going on in her life than I did at the time. So immediately I said, "Where is my girlfriend?" They would not tell me where she was. I said, "Look, I want to get my girlfriend out of here. She doesn't need to be going through this. I know it's going to really mess with her." Again, they would not tell me where she

was.

At this point, I want to stress that I would have gone through that building opening doors to find my girlfriend. However, I thought in the back of my mind that there may be a law against going in someone's place of business and conducting your own search. So against my better judgment, I went out in the waiting room to wait for my girlfriend.

They also at this point gave me a little card to fill out to kind of review the counseling that I had received, and one of the comments that I made is, "Am I in an abortion clinic or at a pro-life seminar?" Also I would like to mention later that I was involved with the trial in Fort Worth, Texas, the first trial to come to court against these clinics, and later I found out that they had done an evaluation of my review of their counseling so that they could better rework their propaganda to deceive and draw women into their web.

So I waited for what seemed like a long time, and my girlfriend still hadn't come out, and I knew at this point that she was prob

I again went out and said, "I want to leave. Where is my girlfriend?" At this time, they were a bit sterner with me and told me that I had to wait until she got through, took me back into the little room off the reception area, and this time closed the door because I was visibly upset at this point, and the whole idea being that no one else would come in contact with me and see that I was distressed with the goings on.

Finally, my girlfriend did emerge visibly shaken, crying, obviously upset. They had gone as far as to give her a little brass pin of babies' feet at six weeks of development which thoroughly upset her, so we both left the clinic.

At this point, I was very angry, but I probably would have just let it drop had I not the next day received in the mail a letter from the Problem Pregnancy Center for me and my girlfriend. She had used my address because she lived with her parents.

I opened up the little letter, and it said, "We will be praying for you." If I had thought that it was a sincere message, that they really were concerned about me, I wouldn't have been offended, but I took it as an offending statement because I really didn't feel that those people cared about me one iota from the treatment that I had received.

So I called up the clinic and asked to speak to the director; he was busy. I told them that I would call back but that he had better not be busy because I was going to talk to him.

When I called back, Mr. Pelletier, the director, answered the phone and, "Oh, Ms. Gillespie, I think I know why you're upset. It's something you got in the mail today, isn't it?" and I said, "Yes, sir, I am very upset about that. I thought when I left there yesterday that would be my last contact with you, and I didn't appreciate getting this letter in the mail." And this is the part that really upsets me, because these people are supposedly motivated by their religious belief: He told me, "Ms. Gillespie, I'm sorry, it was a mistake; you weren't supposed to get a letter; only your girlfriend was supposed to get a letter," to which I responded, "Oh, since I'm going to have an abortion, I guess my soul doesn't matter, I can just rot in hell and you won't bother to pray for me, but since you confused her and upset her, then I guess you'll pray for her because her soul is worth saving—right?"

So we proceeded to have this type of a conversation. Finally I told him, I said, "Look, Mr. Pelletier, I would really appreciate not getting any more correspondence from your office, I will not tolerate it, and I don't want to get any more mail at my house for my girlfriend." He at this point told me that she would have to call me and tell me personally that she did not want to receive any more correspondence, and I told him that I made the house payment on the house, and that it was my home, and that if I got any more mail from him that I would seek some legal help. So he assured me that I would not get any more mail.

I told him at this point that I thought the best thing that he could do would be to tear up my records, forget that he ever saw my face, and just, you know, get out of my life, and he promised me, yes, that he would get rid of my records and that I would not be bothered again, and, as I mentioned, not only did he not destroy

I do want to mention that after this trip to the clinic-my girlfriend couldn't be here because she just got a new job and couldn't get the time off-my girlfriend just totally went into a state of, "I'm pregnant, but I'm just not going to think about it." They confused her and upset her so bad that she just refused to deal with the problem; especially the film is the main thing that really confused and upset her. So despite any urgings that we had, we couldn't even get her to go seek a doctor's help if she was going to have the baby; she just blanked out, she just didn't want to deal with it.

I went ahead and got my abortion. My girlfriend, by the time that we finally sat her down and said, "Look, you've got to do something about this," was so far along in her pregnancy that she could no longer get the reduced price abortion. By the time she raised the money for the second stage abortion she was too far along to get it, and so in the end she did have to tell her parents, she had to travel out of State, and it ended up costing her about ten times what it would have if she had gotten the services that she was supposed to have gotten when we first went.

I also want to mention that when I did go in to get my abortion at the abortion clinic, the counseling was a whole different ball game. It was not, "Hey, we want you to have an abortion;" they gave me the facts, they counseled me to make sure that it was my decision, that I wasn't feeling any family pressure or pressure from my boyfriend to get the abortion, and it was a very balanced presentation, in contrast to the so-called counseling I received at the Problem Pregnancy Center.

At this point, I really didn't have any more to do with the clinic until my younger sister became pregnant. She was married, and they were having some financial trouble. I'm bringing this up because these clinics want to stress that they want to help the woman and the baby, okay?

So my sister was looking for a doctor that would take payments on her pregnancy where she wouldn't have to pay it all up front. So I said, "Well, look, why don't you go down to the Problem Pregnancy Center? They're pro-life, and I'm sure that they could probably help you out with this; since they're against abortion, surely they would help you."

She went down there. Even though she did not want an abortion, they still made her sit through that film and watch it, which, to me, made no sense at all. They offered her absolutely no assistance. I think they gave her a few baby clothes and then referred her to local welfare programs, which wasn't what she was looking for anyway.

To finally conclude this, I would just like to say that if abortion clinics used the same tactics that the pro-life clinics did, imagine yourself being pregnant, thinking that you're going to go in to put your child up for an adoption, and you go into a clinic and they show you pictures of painful and fatal childbirth, pictures of deformed babies, articles in the paper of adoptive parents who have abused or murdered their children. Those tactics would not be accepted, and I don't believe that the tactics that I received of the deception and intimidation are acceptable in our society.

Mr. EDWARDS. Thank you, Ms. Gillespie.

We will now hear from Ms. Angel Weatherman of South Dakota.

STATEMENT OF ANGEL WEATHERMAN, SOUTH DAKOTA

MS. WEATHERMAN. Thank you.

I am married, and I am from South Dakota. I am a music teacher and a church choir director, actually a minister of music.

At the end of July 1985, I suspected I was pregnant. In the Yellow Pages under "Abortion Information" there was an advertisement. It promised free pregnancy testing, abortion information, abortion referrals, and confidentiality. The name of the place was not listed.

I phoned for an appointment which was planned for that afternoon. The name of the place turned out to be the Alpha Center. At the door I was met by a counselor who showed me into a small waiting counseling room. She took the urine specimen that I had brought as requested. I was given an information sheet to fill out, and on this sheet it had printed on it, "All information will be kept confidential." It asked very personal questions such as, "How many times have you been pregnant? Have you had an abortion before? What method of birth control do you use? Who is the father? What is your family status? What is your family background? What is your social status? What are your religious affiliations?"

The counselor then put in a video of the movie called "The Choice." She left me to watch it by myself while she went and tested the sample. When it was over, she came back into the room and asked me if I would consent to watch the pro-life movie called "The Silent Scream." I declined. Then she took the information sheet from me, and then she began to talk. She asked if I had told the father, and I said, "No." This became an immediate issue with her as she believed he had a right to know.

Calmly, reasonably, and logically, I explained to her that I could not go through with the pregnancy because of a medical condition that prevented me from having children. I was advised by several doctors before I became pregnant not to have children and after I became pregnant not to go through with the pregnancy as it could prove, one, either very harmful to me, or, two, it could prove fatal to me. I explained this to the counselor, and this didn't matter to her at all. The general impression that she told me was, "Don't you think God will take care of you? He gave you this baby, and you just can't kill it without giving it a chance."

I then tried to explain that my father had a very prominent position in the State with our church denomination and that a child born illegitimately would greatly undermine his credibility with the other church ministers and congregation, as it would mine, and this again was of no consequence to the counselor. All that mattered to her was to see that I went through a pregnancy that could prove harmful and fatal to me.

Then she began to quote statistics on women who died while having an abortion, and she asked me, "What would your family think then? What would your church think then, if you died while