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husband, and I wonder if you could briefly let us know what that evidence consists of?

Mrs. LIU. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. Can I ask my lawyer to answer this question?

Mr. SOLARZ. Yes.

Mr. GARCHIK. Thank you. As has been mentioned previously in this hearing, on January 15 the Taiwan Government issued a public statement, an official statement, indicating that officials of their own military intelligence bureau are under arrest in connection with at least prior knowledge of a plan of Chen Chi-li to come to the United States to murder Henry Liu, and since then four officials of the Government intelligence, military intelligence bureau, have been either relieved of their duties or placed under arrest. These include Adm. Wang Hsi-ling, who was the director of that bureau at the time of Henry Liu's death, a major general, and two colleagues, including Col. Chen Hu-men.

Col. Chen Hu-men, according to the public statement of the Taiwan Government had at least received a phone call from Chen Chi-li before Chen Chi-li reported to the United States reporting that "I am on the way to the United States to murder an enemy of Taiwan", and failed to report this.

Later, statements by Taiwanese officials have suggested the possibility that these officials may have themselves ordered the crime as one possible level of knowledge, involvement and complicity in this criminal terrorist conspiracy.

Mr. SOLARZ. Do you have any evidence at all which would indicate or imply that the involvement of the Taiwanese Government went above the level represented by Admiral Wang?

Mr. GARCHIK. There is a piece of evidence floating around in the United States, of which the FBI and Daly City Police have one form, and that is the taped confession that Chen Chi-li, the leader of the hit squad, made after he committed this murder, and in that taped confession, printed versions of it, reports in the newspapers, both in Chinese language papers and U.S. papers, including the Newsweek article that Congressman Solomon referred to, state that in this taped confession Admiral Wang-Hsi-ling is implicated as the person paying Chen Chi-li a large sum of money and ordering this killing.

Other recently reported versions suggest the names of some other officials and perhaps other officials and members of the urban KMT party. That is really the extent of our knowledge, what we have indicated.

Mr. SOLARZ. Mrs. Liu, finally, in view of the fact that the U.S. Government, according to Mr. Brown, has asked the authorities on Taiwan to deliver Mr. Chen and Mr. Wu to the custody of the authorities in Daly City, and in view of the fact that the FBI has sent people to Taiwan to interrogate or interview Mr. Chen and Mr. Wu, what exactly would you like the U.S. Government to do in connection with the murder of your husband that it has not already done.

Mrs. Liu. I would really like to see them stand trial here. I have more confidence in the justice system here.

Mr. SOLARZ. You are not fully confident that the truth would emerge if the trial of these men was conducted on Taiwan?

Mr. SOLARZ. Thank you very much, Mrs. Liu, for your testimony. I have just a few questions I would like to ask.

Prior to the time your husband was murdered, were you aware of any occasions on which the Taiwanese Government attempted to either harass or intimidate your husband in order to prevent him from writing his books or articles or to otherwise refrain from criticizing the Government on Taiwan?

Mrs. Liu. Yes. There are many occasions mentioned to me.
Mr. SOLARZ. Could you let us know what they were?

Mrs. Liu. Most of the time I am not on the spot, but what I heard, I am usually not interested in his political views so I never asked him who and when he talked, but there some conversations with his friends I know. Actually, back to even when he was a correspondent for the Taiwan Daily in the Washington DC area since 1969, 1970, 1971, his articles appeared in Taiwan for the Taiwan Daily.

I knew his publisher, Mr. Hsia, had a lot of pressure from the Government since that time. He started writing Chiang's biography about 1973, I believe, serialized for the Hong Kong magazine. One occasion I know Gen. Wang Hsi-ling talked to him.

Mr. SOLARZ. General Wang, is it?

Mrs. LIU. Admiral Wang.

Mr. SOLARZ. Admiral Wang, who is the head of the Bureau of Military Intelligence?

Mrs. LIU. Yes, right. I don't know exactly what they were talking about, but from Henry's one letter written to his friend in Hong Kong, he stated General Wang wanted him to not write anymore about Chiang's family and Chiang's biography.

Mr. SOLARZ. Did he indicate that Admiral Wang had threatened him in any way?

Mrs. Liu. Well, no, no, and when we were in San Francisco, there are many, many occasions through different friends, difference channels, people who had contacted him and talked to him. Most of the time he just laughed it away. He didn't take it seriously.

Mr. SOLARZ. When you say that various people spoke to him about his activities, and he laughed it away, so far as you know, were they conversations in which people were simply trying to persuade him? Was there anything about these conversations which you or he understood to constitute a threat coming from the officials on Taiwan?

Mrs. LIU. Not that I know of.

Mr. SOLARZ. At the time that your husband was killed, was he concerned at all about his security? Did he express any fears that something like this could conceivably happen to him?

Mrs. Liu. Not at all, as he usually said, he said, "this is America; it won't happen here."

Mr. SOLARZ. So he felt secure in our country?

Mrs. LIU. Yes, definitely.

EVIDENCE IMPLICATING TAIWAN

Mr. SOLARZ. You indicated in your testimony that you had evidence linking the Government of Taiwan to the murder of your

husband, and I wonder if you could briefly let us know what that evidence consists of?

Mrs. LIU. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. Can I ask my lawyer to answer this question?

Mr. SOLARZ. Yes.

Mr. GARCHIK. Thank you. As has been mentioned previously in this hearing, on January 15 the Taiwan Government issued a public statement, an official statement, indicating that officials of their own military intelligence bureau are under arrest in connection with at least prior knowledge of a plan of Chen Chi-li to come to the United States to murder Henry Liu, and since then four officials of the Government intelligence, military intelligence bureau, have been either relieved of their duties or placed under arrest. These include Adm. Wang Hsi-ling, who was the director of that bureau at the time of Henry Liu's death, a major general, and two colleagues, including Col. Chen Hu-men.

Col. Chen Hu-men, according to the public statement of the Taiwan Government had at least received a phone call from Chen Chi-li before Chen Chi-li reported to the United States reporting that "I am on the way to the United States to murder an enemy of Taiwan", and failed to report this.

Later, statements by Taiwanese officials have suggested the possibility that these officials may have themselves ordered the crime as one possible level of knowledge, involvement and complicity in this criminal terrorist conspiracy.

Mr. SOLARZ. Do you have any evidence at all which would indicate or imply that the involvement of the Taiwanese Government went above the level represented by Admiral Wang?

Mr. GARCHIK. There is a piece of evidence floating around in the United States, of which the FBI and Daly City Police have one form, and that is the taped confession that Chen Chi-li, the leader of the hit squad, made after he committed this murder, and in that taped confession, printed versions of it, reports in the newspapers, both in Chinese language papers and U.S. papers, including the Newsweek article that Congressman Solomon referred to, state that in this taped confession Admiral Wang-Hsi-ling is implicated as the person paying Chen Chi-li a large sum of money and ordering this killing.

Other recently reported versions suggest the names of some other officials and perhaps other officials and members of the urban KMT party. That is really the extent of our knowledge, what we have indicated.

Mr. SOLARZ. Mrs. Liu, finally, in view of the fact that the U.S. Government, according to Mr. Brown, has asked the authorities on Taiwan to deliver Mr. Chen and Mr. Wu to the custody of the authorities in Daly City, and in view of the fact that the FBI has sent people to Taiwan to interrogate or interview Mr. Chen and Mr. Wu, what exactly would you like the U.S. Government to do in connection with the murder of your husband that it has not already done.

Mrs. Liu. I would really like to see them stand trial here. I have more confidence in the justice system here.

Mr. SOLARZ. You are not fully confident that the truth would emerge if the trial of these men was conducted on Taiwan?

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Mr. LEACH. I would just like to probe that last question a little bit further. My sense is from the earlier State Department witness that perhaps there would not be a great deal of discomfort from the_Department's point of view if there was a swift and firm trial on Taiwan.

My own sense is that that has some enormous disadvantages that this country ought to consider very seriously before indicating that as an official position. Normally the term speedy trial is something that has very positive implications in American society, but too speedy a trial could imply the lack of full investigation into all the people that may be implicated. I can believe a trial in Taiwan might be very swift and, in fact, firmer in the meting out of punishment for some than a trial in the United States, but that it also might imply a less great effort in terms of trying to seek out all of the parties that may or may not be implicated. So I would only ask you if you think from your perspective that is a problem, and is that one of the reasons why you are suggesting that it is your hope that the jurisdiction be the courts of the United States.

Mrs. LIU. Yes.

Mr. LEACH. Your answer is in the affirmative?

Mrs. LIU. Yes. My answer is yes.

Mr. LEACH. I have no further questions. Thank you.

Mr. SOLARZ. Thank you very much, Mr. Leach. Let me just say to my colleagues on the committee that after the questioning of Mrs. Liu is finished, because some of the other members have to go, we will proceed to a markup of the resolution, and then hear from Professor Glennon.

Mr. Dymally.

Mr. DYMALLY. Mrs. Liu, there are several newspaper reports, some of them contradictory, linking your husband with one agency and the other of a friendly nation or unfriendly nation. Would you like to respond to that?

Mrs. Liu. Well, this can be explained from his character. He was an outspoken man. He never had any secrets. Anything he knew he put in his article, or he would pickup the phone and call his friends right away to compare notes, compare the material he got, whether it is true or not, and so he was not hiding anything.

He was not that kind of a person. He was usually willing to speak to whoever was interested in his point of view, and he would tell him or them exactly what he knew, so I don't think we can characterize him as a spy. They say he is a triple agent. They forgot to add one more, KGB.

Mr. DYMALLY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SOLARZ. Thank you, Mr. Dymally.

Mr. Solomon.

Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Chairman, I don't have any questions. I would just like to address Mrs. Liu, though, to tell her that in spite of my obvious, very strong support for the Republic of China that I will do everything in my power to see that those people that committed the crime against your husband are brought to justice, and I promise you that.

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Mr. LANTOS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to commend you for your testimony, Mrs. Liu.

Mrs. LIU. Thank you.

VISITS TO TAIWAN

Mr. LANTOS. And for your personal dignity and courage. I have several questions. When did your husband last visit Taiwan? Mrs. Liu. I believe it was in 1969.

Mr. LANTOS. He had not been back to Taiwan for 16 years?
Mrs. Liu. No. He was afraid to go back there.

Mr. LANTOS. Could you expand on that?

Mrs. Liu. Well, on his last trip there, he was on a trip to Indonesia, actually, for independent studies for American University, and passing by Taipei for a couple of weeks. He was there visiting his friends, and one day one of his old friends came to him and said why are you still here? Some people have been asking about you, asking about your activities in the United States and your writings.

So he just canceled all appointments, left Taipei the second morning. Since then he told friends he is never going to go back there again, even for the airline stop over he wouldn't do that either.

Mr. LANTOS. Has your husband visited mainland China?

Mrs. LIU. Yes, since 1975.

Mr. LANTOS. How frequently or how many times?

Mrs. Liu. Totally four times.

Mr. LANTOS. I am sorry?

Mrs. Liu. Totally four times. I think 1975 was his first trip going back to mainland China. That is after he got his U.S. citizenship. At that time China was still not quite open yet, but he was so homesick he wanted to go back to see his hometown and his brothers back there. Then he went back in 1980, 1981, and 1984, the last time.

Mr. LANTOS. For what purpose did he go back other than a sentimental visit?

Mrs. Liu. Most of the time, 1981, let me see, his 1980 trip, he went back to the hometown of Chiang Ching-kuo, and Seko, his home in Jingjiang Jiangsu Province, to compare notes and check some facts, do some research work.

In 1981 he took the whole family back to China just for a visit, because my son had never been back to China, and I left the country 30 years or so and wanted to see it.

The 1984 trip was for research and some business aspects. He tried to discuss the possibility of publishing a book in Peking, which they did agree to do.

He also went to Kumings Yunnan province for his second book about biography of Lung Yun, who was the Governor of the Yunnan Province.

He went back to his hometown to take some pictures and to interview some people.

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