Imágenes de páginas
PDF
EPUB

Mr. LANTOS. Is it your testimony that the gang acted on its own authority or was the gang put up to it by government officials?

Mr. BROWN. I would suggest that you direct that question to our law enforcement agencies, sir.

Mr. LANTOS. In your discussions with the Taiwan authorities, did you explore the question of coverup, did you advise them that coverups in an open society, as Watergate so clearly demonstrated, simply don't work? And did you caution them that any attempt at a coverup at any level would so galvanize the Congress into action that repercussions could be extremely serious?

Mr. BROWN. I think they speedily came to that conclusion, sir. Mr. LANTOS. Are you suggesting that this is your impression or that it is because the State Department so counseled?

Mr. BROWN. I think that on the basis of our vigorous interventions conducted through AIT, they came to the proper conclusions.

ACCUSED IN PHILIPPINES

Mr. LANTOS. My final question, Mr. Brown, relates to one of the suspects, who I understand is presently at large in the Philippines, is that correct?

Mr. BROWN. That is my understanding, sir.

Mr. LANTOS. When did this individual escape from Taiwan to the Philippines?

Mr. BROWN. That was to the best of my knowledge, subsequent to that individual's return to Taipei and prior to a sweep by the authorities of criminal gangs on Taiwan in I believe November.

Mr. LANTOS. Are you implying the escape of this individual to the Philippines took place without governmental complicity? Mr. BROWN. I am not implying anything, sir.

Mr. LANTOS. Well, what is your judgment?

Mr. BROWN. I have no judgment. I simply note that the movement to the Philippines by this individual reportedly took place after that individual returned to Taiwan in October and before a sweep of criminal gangs and their members in Taiwan in November.

Mr. LANTOS. Did we request cooperation from the Government of the Philippines to return this individual to the United States?

Mr. BROWN. We have communicated to the Government of the Philippines our earnest desire to be in contact with that individual. Mr. LANTOS. What has been their response?

Mr. BROWN. They have so noted.

Mr. LANTOS. What does that mean in English, Mr. Brown?

Mr. BROWN. I believe the individual is at large and they have certainly taken note officially of our desire.

Mr. LANTOS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SOLARZ. Mr. Solomon.

Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Chairman, first, I think we all have to be sensitive or hesitant because I know Mrs. Liu is in the audience. I think we have to be careful sometimes what we say when we talk about a murder, when we talk about "garden variety" type things like that. I just want to say I think we ought to be careful.

Second, I just want to clarify this business of coverup, Mr. Brown, that the previous colleague was alluding to. As I look at the

I might say that I have served in many other Chinese language posts, if you will-Hong Kong, Taiwan, Taichung, Taipei, Singapore, and again on Taiwan.

Mr. LANTOS. It is fair for us to assume, therefore, that you are one of the most knowledgeable officers of our State Department in dealing with Taiwan? Would this be a fair statement? Again, set aside your well known modesty. It is a factual statement isn't it? Mr. BROWN. Thank you for your compliment.

NATURE OF THE MURDER

Mr. LANTOS. All right.

Having established that-and I don't wish to get into the arena where you will admonish me as you admonished Chairman Solarz that the question should be directed to the FBI or Daly City Police because neither of them is here and we are interested in your views-at what point did the department conclude that the murder of Mr. Liu was not an ordinary murder?

Mr. BROWN. An ordinary-

Mr. LANTOS. Yes, not just a common, garden variety killing, that is right.

Mr. BROWN. After we were briefed by the FBI, sir.

Mr. LANTOS. Approximately when was that, Mr. Brown?

Mr. BROWN. We received a full briefing, what I would characterize as a comprehensive briefing in December, sir.

Mr. LANTOS. What was the reaction within the Department upon receiving that briefing?

Mr. BROWN. Outrage.

Mr. LANTOS. How fully was this outrage communicated to the Taiwan authorities?

Mr. BROWN. Immediately and vigorously.

Mr. LANTOS. And at what level?

Mr. BROWN. Those communications ran through the auspices of the American Institute in Taiwan, with its counterpart at the highest level.

Mr. LANTOS. Is it reasonable for this committee to conclude that the Secretary of State was fully briefed on this event?

Mr. BROWN. It is, sir.

Mr. LANTOS. Was there any discussion within the State Department of this event being typical of the kind of terrorism that the State Department has so properly and publicy denounced in recent years?

Mr. BROWN. There was extended discussion of this and the possible implications, but I would decline to go into the nature and conclusions of such discussion.

Mr. LANTOS. Is it your view that that murder can be properly described as a terrorist act?

Mr. BROWN. I would prefer not to so characterize it.

Mr. LANTOS. I realize that you would prefer not to, but I am asking you to characterize it either as a terrorist act or as a nonterrorist act.

Mr. BROWN. Well, this appears to me to have been a killing by a gang and therefore, not within what I would characterize the motivations of a terrorist act.

Mr. LANTOS. Is it your testimony that the gang acted on its own authority or was the gang put up to it by government officials?

Mr. BROWN. I would suggest that you direct that question to our law enforcement agencies, sir.

Mr. LANTOS. In your discussions with the Taiwan authorities, did you explore the question of coverup, did you advise them that coverups in an open society, as Watergate so clearly demonstrated, simply don't work? And did you caution them that any attempt at a coverup at any level would so galvanize the Congress into action that repercussions could be extremely serious?

Mr. BROWN. I think they speedily came to that conclusion, sir. Mr. LANTOS. Are you suggesting that this is your impression or that it is because the State Department so counseled?

Mr. BROWN. I think that on the basis of our vigorous interventions conducted through AIT, they came to the proper conclusions.

ACCUSED IN PHILIPPINES

Mr. LANTOS. My final question, Mr. Brown, relates to one of the suspects, who I understand is presently at large in the Philippines, is that correct?

Mr. BROWN. That is my understanding, sir.

Mr. LANTOS. When did this individual escape from Taiwan to the Philippines?

Mr. BROWN. That was to the best of my knowledge, subsequent to that individual's return to Taipei and prior to a sweep by the authorities of criminal gangs on Taiwan in I believe November.

Mr. LANTOS. Are you implying the escape of this individual to the Philippines took place without governmental complicity? Mr. BROWN. I am not implying anything, sir.

Mr. LANTOS. Well, what is your judgment?

Mr. BROWN. I have no judgment. I simply note that the movement to the Philippines by this individual reportedly took place after that individual returned to Taiwan in October and before a sweep of criminal gangs and their members in Taiwan in November.

Mr. LANTOS. Did we request cooperation from the Government of the Philippines to return this individual to the United States?

Mr. BROWN. We have communicated to the Government of the Philippines our earnest desire to be in contact with that individual. Mr. LANTOS. What has been their response?

Mr. BROWN. They have so noted.

Mr. LANTOS. What does that mean in English, Mr. Brown?

Mr. BROWN. I believe the individual is at large and they have certainly taken note officially of our desire.

Mr. LANTOS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SOLARZ. Mr. Solomon.

Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Chairman, first, I think we all have to be sensitive or hesitant because I know Mrs. Liu is in the audience. I think we have to be careful sometimes what we say when we talk about a murder, when we talk about "garden variety" type things like that. I just want to say I think we ought to be careful.

Second, I just want to clarify this business of coverup, Mr. Brown, that the previous colleague was alluding to. As I look at the

chronological sheet here, a routine dragnet operation took place in Taiwan about November 12 at which time they rounded up suspected crime figures.

On November 17, hardly 5 days later, the Government of the Republic of China formally notified the Government of the United States about the arrest in Taiwan and what they had discovered, so I hardly think that is a coverup. It seems to me they were the first ones to alert the U.S. Government that something may have been behind this other than, if we must say it "garden variety" murder. So, I just think that ought to be part of the record, that the Republic of China notified us, they called our attention to it.

Now, it would seem to me if they were the type of killers that some people seem to want to portray them as being, maybe they would have taken Wu and Chen out to the backyard, and they would have disappeared like they do in Siberia and other garden spots in the Communists bloc. They didn't do that. They notified the U.S. Government. I think we ought to be aware of that.

Second, I just was reading a Library of Congress report here, Mr. Chairman, from the Chief of the Far Eastern Law Division of the Library of Congress. It says a few very important things in here. One, it says in general, unless there is a specific treaty provision permitting it, most nations will not, I repeat will not, extradite their own citizens.

In most nations around the world, friendly and unfriendly, it goes on to say furthermore, extradition shall be refused if the case is still in proceedings, as this case is. It goes on to say, that it is reasonable to presume that the suspects in this case might also be accused of committing crimes other than-and they use the pen name of Mr. Liu-his murder in connection with their activities as gangsters. And, I think, we all have to keep that in mind, for those of us worried about their getting their due process. Personally, I would like to see them get the death penalty for that kind of heinous murder. Perhaps they might better be tried in Taiwan than in the United States.

But I would also like to correct one thing, Mr. Brown, that you said, that you were emphatic about it. The United States was asking for extradition, in other words, from Taiwan. I don't find that that is true. As a matter of fact, it is the other way around. I have badgered the State Department, and all other agencies, because there are some 30 gangsters or criminals, in the United States who have committed heinous crimes in Taiwan that Taiwan wants to extradite back. These are not U.S. citizens, these are Republic of China citizens.

Certainly, Taiwan wants an extradition treaty with us, and I think we ought to have one. As a matter of fact, I have passed out an amendment to Mr. Solarz' resolution which simply states, after his resolve clauses, that it is further the sense of the Congress that the appropriate authorities, in both the United States and Taiwan, should negotiate an extradition treaty or some other formal arrangement regarding extradition procedures so that we could bring back Wu and Chen.

I would like to ask you if you would have any objections, since you don't have any objection to Mr. Solarz' resolution, nor do I, if

my amendment were added to it? Do you have any objection to this amendment?

Mr. BROWN. I would have to study that. I would like to bring that back and consider it.

Mr. SOLOMON. All right, thank you.

Mr. SOLARZ. I thank the gentleman.

I, on the second round have a few final questions. Some of the others might also.

WHY WAS LIU KILLED

Are you in a position at all to speculate as to why Mr. Liu was killed?

Mr. BROWN. No; I am not in such a position, sir.

Mr. SOLARZ. Are you at all in a position to comment on the reports that have appeared in the press that Mr. Liu was in the employ of a number of secret services?

Mr. BROWN. No; I am not.

Mr. SOLARZ. Or of other governments around the world?

Mr. BROWN. No; I cannot comment on that.

Mr. SOLARZ. I assume even if there were any truth to these allegations, that would in no way obviate your sense of outrage over the killing?

Mr. BROWN. Of an American citizen in the United States.

Mr. SOLARZ. Now, you indicated you thought the murder of Mr. Liu did constitute an example of extreme intimidation. Would you consider calls to Taiwanese-Americans in the middle of the night, threatening them if they didn't refrain from criticism of the Taiwanese Government, to be a form of intimidation, if that could be established that it took place?

Mr. BROWN. If that could be established, yes.

Mr. SOLARZ. Would you consider it a form of harassment or intimidation if Taiwanese citizens in the United States, excuse me, if Taiwanese-Americans seeking to visit Taiwan were denied visas to visit Taiwan on the grounds that they had been critical of the government in Taiwan?

Mr. BROWN. Could you repeat that? If-

Mr. SOLARZ. If it were established that U.S. citizens of Taiwanese descent, or of any other origin, were denied visas by the Taiwanese authorities to visit Taiwan on the ground that they had been critical of the authorities on Taiwan, had spoken out against the Government of Taiwan, or had participated in demonstrations protesting the policies of Taiwan, would you consider it an example of harassment or intimidation?

Mr. BROWN. That is a very difficult area, Mr. Chairman, for me to respond to.

Most countries, emphatically this one, jealously guard their sovereign right to determine the ground rules on which they issue or deny visas.

Mr. SOLARZ. I assume we would not look kindly on the use of that sovereign power for the purpose of intimidating people in the United States, however.

Mr. BROWN. I so assume.

« AnteriorContinuar »