them on fair grounds. Why did he not boldly come forward with a charge against him? He was ready to meet fuch a charge, and to repel it any day. The Earl of Suffolk faid he required Minifters to attend in their places. There could in his opinion be no excufe for their absence at the prefent crifis for days; no, not even for hours. It appeared to him as an indication of their defire to shrink from their duty. Lord Grenville felt himself called upon to notice the expreffions which had fallen from the Noble Lord who had spoken laft. He was for his own part perfectly fatisfied, that no Noble Lord could accufe him, even in the flighteft refpect, of fhrinking from his duty. He begged leave to difclaim the idea intimated by the Noble Earl, that Minifters were bound at all times to be prefent in their places in Parliament. He fhould not hesitate to fay, that with regard to his own conduct, it was abfolutely neceffary for him to judge for himself of the time moft proper for his attendance to his duty in that Houfe. He also thought it requifite to ftate, that it was irregular for any individual Member to require in a peremptory tone, the attendance of Minifters, for the ufual and conftitutional mode was to proceed by fummoning the House. The Royal Affent was then given by Commiffion to the Bill for the increase of the Wages and Provifions of Seamen and Marines, to five other public, and five private Bills. The Commiffioners were, the Lord Chancellor, the Archbifhop of Canterbury, the Duke of Portland, and the Earl of Liverpool. Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tuesday, May 9. MAIDSTONE ELECTION. The following are the names of the Members who compofe the Committee appointed to try the merits of the Maidftone Election Petition. Francis Dickins, Efq.-CHAIRMAN. Wm. Drummond, Efq. Sir Geo. Douglas Wm. Adams, Efq. E. Wilbe. Bootle, Efq. Sylvefter Douglas, Efq. Rich, Ellifon, Efq. Geo. Tierney, Efq. Hon. A.Paget. Chs. Smith. Hon. Rich, Ryder. NOMINEES. Wm. Dundas, Efq. The Order of the Day for the third reading of the Naviga tion Bill was read. 1 Mr. Mr. Ryder moved a claufe, to leave out these words" in any part of Africa or the Eaft Indies." This would remove the objections of perfons who thought their interests were likely. to be affected by having privileges granted to fhips built in India equal to those built in Great Britain. This alteration was adopted, and the Bill read a third time. SEAMEN. Mr. Whitbread faid, that in confequence of what had paffed laft night, and confidering the impreffions of men's minds relative to the disturbances at Portfimouth, he now rofe, not to enter into the caules of that affair, but to prefs upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer a queftion, which had been distinctly propofed to him by two of his Honourable Friends last night, and to which no answer was made. He begged, therefore, to afk, why the propofition, moved last night, was not brought forward on an earlier day? Had this been done the disastrous confequences which had taken place might have been prevented. Unleís a fatisfactory explanation was given of a delay fo fatal in its confequences, and for which the Right Honourable Gentleman was refponfible to the House and to the country, it was his intention to move a direct vote of cenfure against the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for grofs neglect of duty in not fubmitting the fubject fooner to the House. The Chancellor of the Exchequer acknowledged that he certainly was refponfible, provided there was any misconduct imputable to any perfon on the occafion alluded to by the Honourable Gentleman. He would not however at prefent enter into any difcuffion on a fubject concerning which he would wish that as little as poffible might be faid. But whenever the Honourable Gentleman fhould bring forward his intended vote of cenfure, that would be the time for him to ftate thofe things which he might think fit to fubmit to the juftice and candour of the Houfe. As to the queftion, Whether the recent proceedings in the Fleet arofe from Parliament not having fooner adopted that measure, which was on the former day brought forward in the Committee of Supply, he muft obferve, that there was not a ftep taken, which, confiftently with the neceffary forms and regulations, could have been adopted at more early periods than thole on which they were brought forward. On the 26th of April, the Petition of the Seamen was referred to a Committee of the Lords of the Admiralty; who were to confider the same, and report their opinion upon it. Their report was made to the King in Council, and, as foon as it was approved of, immediate directions were given at the proper offices to prepare an eftimate of the fum which the intended augmentation in the wages of the Seamen would produce; and the moment that efti mate mate was ready, it was laid before the Houfe: and that Refolution already alluded to, voted accordingly. The Houfe would alfo recoliect, that in conf.quence of a queftion put to him by an Honourable Gentleman on the other fide, he had diftinctly stated, that a communication was to be made on the fubject of an augmentation in the Seamen's wages. Gentlemen muft moreover recollect, that, on the day when he had brought forward the Ways and Means, he did exprefly flate to the Conmittee that a further provision was to be made for Naval Services, over and above the fums voted on that day for the current expences of the year. From thefe circumftances, there was no ground to fuppofe, that it was not the intention of the Executive Government to propofe fuch meafures as might ferve to fatisfy the demands of the Seamen in the fulleft manner. Thefe were the facts, therefore, which he had to state to the candour of the House. No time was loft in taking every neceflary ftep, each of which had a regular train to go through. But it certainly was true, that meatures had not been hurried on with that fpeed which would have been adopted, if there had exifted the flighteft fufpicion that a delay would have caufed any mifconftruction with regard to the intentions of Government; and he affured the Houfe, that no perfon could feel more regret than he fhould, if he thought that that delay was in any manner the cause of the events which lately took place in the Fleet. This was all he had to fay on the fubject, until the Honourable Gentleman fhould bring forward his Motion. Before he fat down, he thought proper to inform the Houfe, that in confequence of the vote of yesterday, it was his intention to propofe a Bill, grounded on the Report of the Committee, which Bill, contrary to the ufual forms, he fhould alfo propofe to have carried through all its ftages in the most expeditious manner. This he conceived to be the best way to remove all doubts as to the intention of the Executive Government; and. he believed, in that cafe, that the Houfe would think it was his wifh to decline all difcuffion on the fübject. Mr. Fox faid, that after the explanation which the Right Honourable Gentleman had juft given, he could not help faying that the delay complained of, was an intolerable and fatal neglect of duty. In his opinion, Minifters were guilty, not only judging that delay after the fact, but before the fact. The hiftory of the tranfaction was, that in Eatter week complaints had exifted in the Fleet, meetings of Delegates had taken place,. and various other circumftances happened. A letter was written from the Admiralty upon the fubject of thefe complaints, which stamped upon them a character of incapacity the most flagrant, or want of talents for acting upon a great and difficult No. 35. * & B crifis, crifis, unexampled in the annals of any adminiftration. This letter not having produced any effect, a fecond had been fent, with which the Seamen were faid to be fatisfied, and on which they were to return to their duty. This tranfaction had taken place on Sunday morning, the 23d of April. Under all the circumftances with which this affair was accompanied, he would fubmit to any impartial mind, whether this was an occafion for tardy forms and official delays? What was the duty of Minifters then upon this occafion? Was it not their duty, after they had recognised the Delegates with whom they treated; after they had made a promife, to have loft no time in completing the tranfaction? Yet, in ftating the rapidity with which he had acted in purfuance of the ufual forms, it appeared that the first date of any ftep was the 26th of April, three days after the agreement had been made. Was not this a matter upon which the utmoft difpatch ought to have been used? Delays till the opinion of Council was taken! Good God, after a pardon had been proclaimed for what had paffed, when the active part of the Council were the men who had agreed to the tranfaction to be confidered, and who were bound to carry it into effect, could there be any doubt of the opinion of Council; was any delay neceflary till it was pronounced? But even the Order of Council to which thefe tedious fteps and formal proceedings were to lead appeared on the 3d of May. It was not until the 8th of May that the propofition was made to the House of Commons; but the Right Honourable Gentleman was obliged to wait for Eftimates after the determination of the Council. What! could not the Minifter have gueffed what would be the determination of the Council before hand, and have had his Eftimates in readiness? Was there ever a country ruined by fuch wretched incapacity? and was there ever a people that fubmitted to it with fuch patience? The Right Honourable Gentleman faid, that it was known that Parliament had it in contemplation to adopt this measure---how was it known? Did the Right Honourable Gentleman expect that the Sailors were to know every thing that had fallen from him in his Budget? Even in that Houfe his meaning was not precifely understood. In an object of fuch immenfe importance, the Minifter had put the falvation of the country at hazard, to give his clerks time to make an estimate. He might be afked, why, if he was fo anxious for expedition, he had not preffled it forward in Parliament ? The only anfwer he could give was, that he was in daily expectation that fome information would be given to the Houfe, and that he was ignorant of the facts. He never understood, after the letter of the Admiralty, whether the Sailors were perfectly fatisfied---whether any thing had been given up by those who who had negotiated with the Admiralty---or whether the whole was completely finished. When he firft mentioned this bufinefs in the Houfe, he was told by the Right Honourable Gentleman that the proper accounts fhould be laid before the House, or at least he understood him to that effect. The Right Honourable Gentleman had also spoken of the diflance of Portfmouth as an excufe; but, furely, if Government had determined upon the meafure, the diftance between London and Portimouth could not make any poffible difference. He was fpeaking in great ignorance of the facts; but if there was nothing remaining to be done after Lord Spencer left Portsmouth, but to obtain the fanction of Parliament, he confidered this delay as involving Ministers in a degree of guilt that could not be paffed over by the Houfe. The Right Honourable Gentleman had faid, that fpeaking after the facts, he lamented that more expedition was not ufed. He had no doubt that the Right Honour able Gentleman did lament; and, indeed, there were very few acts of his adminiftration that he ought not fincerely to lament. If by thefe delays, the lives of any innocent men, in whatever ftation, were loft, whatever regret the Right Honourable Gentleman might feel, (and he might feel deeply) the Houfe ought not to be fatisfied without taking fome fteps to mark their difapprobation of the conduct of his Majefty's Minifters. A conduct, however, to which was owing the lofs of the innocent lives of men, whoever they were, who had fallen, whether high or low, men to whom the country was highly indebted, ought not to be paffed over unnoticed by the Houfe. Whatever were the feelings of regret experienced by the Right Honourable Gentleman for the delay that had taken place, he gave him credit for the feelings he profeffed to have; what man indeed could exift confcious of the calamities his conduct had occafioned without feelings of regret? Yet that conduct, which was the caufe of delays fo fatal, ought not to pass without the marked difapprobation of the Houfe. To oppofe any meafure which tended to expedite the final completion of the tranfaction, however, was by no means his intention. Mr. Whitbread faid, after the unfatisfactory explanation. given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he fhould poftpone the Motion he intended to make no longer than till after the propofition now to be brought forward on the fubject, was dif pofed of. The Houfe certainly was not fully attended on the prefent occafion, but if the important crifis in which the country was placed did not enforce the attendance of Members, nothing he had to fay could. Recollecting, too, the immenfe fums which had often been voted away by as fmall a number of Members as now appeared, he did not feel himself blameable in bringing forward his Motion even on fo short a notice.. 8 B 2 Mr. |