tance to Ireland, but to the difcuffion of matters connected with the internal regulation of that country. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed. INCREASE OF SEAMENS' WAGES AND PROVISIONS. The Bill for the Increase of the Wages and Provifions of the Seamen and Marines of his Majefty's Navy was brought up from the Commons, and read a first time. On a Motion that the fame be then read a fecond time, The Earl of Suffolk rofe, and stated to the House, that he had come there that day for the purpose of calling the attention of their Lordships to this important fubject. Reflecting on the dreadful and ferious calamity which had given rife to this Bill, it had for fome time past been a matter of the highest astonishment to him that it had not much fooner been brought forward. It appeared to him that there had been a great degree of criminal negligence in having fo long delayed it, and he would therefore content himself at prefent with putting one question to the Noble Secretary of State. He requefted to be informed, "What were the reasons why the bringing forward the Bill had been fo long procrastinated?" He would not trouble the House any further at prefent, referving to himself a right to make further observations when he had heard the speech of the Noble Secretary on the fubject. The Duke of Athol, thinking that incalculable mischief might be the confequence of any difcuffion taking place upon a subject of fo great delicacy, rofe for the purpose of deprecating fuch a difcuffion, and of expreffing a wifh that the Bill should go through its several stages without any obfervations being made upon it. They had already experienced the fatal effects of the converfation which took place on a former evening having been misrepresented, and fimilar effects might happen again from a fimilar caufe. He therefore entreated their Lordships to allow the Bill to go as quickly as poffible through its several stages, in the hope that, in confequence of it, the deluded feamen would return to their duty, and receive with gratitude this boon from their country. The Earl of Suffolk took notice of the word mifreprefented, and afked from which fide of the Houfe mifreprefentation had proceeded? He was fure it was not from his own fide of the House; but he believed, if mifrepresentations there had been, they came from his Majefty's Minifters. The Duke of Athol affured the Noble Earl that he had never entertained the flightest idea of any mifrepresentation being used by any one in that Houfe; the mifreprefentations he alluded to were made by perfons out of the House. Lord Lord Grenville faid that he came to the Houfe with a thorough conviction on his mind that all difcuffion ought to be avoided.--It had always been his opinion, but he was the more confirmed in it now, from the fhameful and scandalous misrepresentations which had been made in confequence of the fhort difcuffion that took place in that Houfe on the fame fubject a few nights ago. His Lordship particularly alluded to the Speech of the First Lord of the Admiralty (Lord Spencer) on that occafion, in which he faid, "he had no communication in command from his Majefty, on the subject." He averred that this Speech had been most grofsly misreprefented, for the purpose of irritating the minds of the Seamen, and he believed that fuch mifreprefentation had been attended with the most mischievous effects. He therefore deprecated difcuffion, and thanked the Noble Duke who had fo ably and fo prudently ftood forward to oppofe it, and, by fo doing, rendered it unneceffary for him to trouble the Houfe further on the subject. The Duke of Bedford faid, he rofe for the purpose not of introducing difcuffion upon the subject of the Bill now before the Houfe, but of refifting the doctrine that their Lordships were bound to fanction whatever his Majefty's Minifters thought proper to propose. He rofe for the purpose not of giving an opportunity for mifreprefentation, but to give his Majefty's Minifters an opportunity of doing away mifrepresentation; to give them an opportunity of amending their declaration, and of removing the mifconception to which it had given rife. Difcuffion of the fubject of the Bill he thought improper; explanation he thought neceffary. He was not furprifed, however, that difcuffion and explanation were equally obnoxious to his Majesty's Ministers; for fecrefy alone could fcreen their conduct from cenfure and their characters from infamy. When any light was thrown upon their actions, it ferved only to convict them of odious treachery or the most shameful incapacity. The queftion of the Noble Earl, his Grace contended, was a very fair one, and ought to be answered. Some caufe ought to be affigned why fo very long a delay had taken place in bringing the Bill forward. In his opinion, a fair and candid anfwer, fhewing the cause of delay, would go further to fatisfy the minds of the Seamen, than all the filence which could be obferved. The delay in bringing the Bill forward had been the cause of the greateft calamity that ever had befallen this country, and Minifters were bound either to fhew that there was a reasonable caufe for it, or a great and criminal neglect was fairly imputable to them. Lord Grenville faid, that he was perfectly convinced, as he had before informed the Houfe, that all difcuffion on the subject would be wrong, and he was therefore determined not to be drawn into 8A 2 any any further anfwer. The Noble Duke had, however, taken advantage of his declaration, and entered into a strain of invective against Minifters. It was, however, an advantage he did not envy him. Earl Moira faid, that the question put by his Noble Friend (Lord Suffolk) did not invite any difcuffion upon the subject of the Bill now before the Houfe. His Noble Friend did not object to the Bill, he only wifhed to know the caufe of the delay which had taken place in bringing it in. And in order to avoid giving any answer to this fimple queftion, the Noble Secretary availed himself, as an excufe, of a misapprehension of something, not which wa faid, but of fomething which was not said on a former day. The country would not take this as an excuse he was fure, and he hoped that neither would their Lordships fuftain it. There was one confequence of a ferious nature to be expected from the filence of the Noble Secretary, if it was perfevered in, namely, that the delay would naturally be ascribed to official neglect, a circumftance which certainly would not tend much to conciliate the feamen, at least to those who adminiftered his Majefty's Government. The explanation defired went only to one fingle point, and it was idle and childish to evade it, viz. why the measure now adopted was not taken with greater expedition? Lord Sydney deprecated all difcuffion, and threatened if it was proceeded in to move that the Houfe fhould be cleared. He objected alfo to the difcuflon as it was now conducted, as being contrary to Parliamentary forms, and as tending to increase the delay fo much complained of. The Duke of Grafton faid, that he did not ask too much when he afked a confeffion from their Lordships that the prefent was one of the greatest calamities with which the country was ever afflicted, and that arofe chiefly from procraftination. If then thefe pofitions were founded in rectitude, would any of his Majefty's Minifters be hardy enough to fay that the country ought not to be informed of the caufes of that procrastination? When they were putting off the definitive fettlement of the business from day to day, did they recollect that the promise of the First Lord of the Admiralty, that his Majefty's Royal word was pledged that the measure should be carried into effect? Had he been First Lord of the Admiralty he would not have been an hour from the elbow of the Minifter till he had got his promise carried into execution; and the Minifter on his part ought to have recollected that his Majefty's moft gracious order called upon him to take the speedieft fteps for giving it effect. He thought, therefore, an explanation from the Noble Secretary of State, fhewing the caufe or reafon of the delay, would have a better better effect on the minds of the seamen than any filence on the fubject could have. His Grace, therefore, preffed for an answer to the question of the Noble Earl. The Lord Chancellor, after noticing the dangers to which any debate on the Bill might lead, conjured their Lordihips in the moft folemn manner not to lofe the precious moments which they were at that inftant in full poffeffion of, and which, if fuffered to elapfe, might not be fpeedily retrieved. He could not but ftate that the conduct of the Noble Lords who prefied fo very much for an explanation from the Noble Secretary was, by their very manner of proceeding, marked with the most glaring inconfiftency. They centured his Majefty's Minifters for delaying, as they were pleased to term it, the conclufion of the very important fubject contained in the Bill till that night, and to that delay they also thought proper to attribute the calamities which had recently taken place. Yet what was extremely unaccountable on the part of their Lordships, they were the only perfons who, by defiring particular explanations on the fubject, preffed for a delay of the fame kind, which they were fo very eager to condemn in others. The reafons therefore urged by a Noble Duke for an explanation, were exactly those which operated against it. Having made these brief remarks, he concluded by expreffing his fincere hope that their Lordships would agree to the Bill without any difcuffion refpecting it, and he trusted that the Bill would in a very fhort time be on its way to Portsmouth. The Duke of Grafton having candidly admitted the neceffity of proceeding on the Bill without difcuffion, The Duke of Bedford rofe, and ftated to the House, that he defired to ask another queftion of Minifters. His Grace thought it neceffary to premife, that it was one which, if fairly answered, would completely put an end to all difcuffion whatever. The queftion was, whether his Majefty's Minifters intended, and were really endeavouring to carry into execution all the promises made by the Lords Commiffioners of the Admiralty to the feamen? Lord Grenville thought it neceffary to deny in the most exprefs and pofitive terms, that he was in his official capacity bound to answer any question that might be put to him, however unfeafonably, by individuals. His Lordship felt that it was a doctrine which could not be too forcibly stated to the House, that his Majefty's Minifters and Parliement ought both to be tried by their own acts, and not by any grofs and fhameful mifrepresentations that were maliciously fabricated to pervert the public mind, and prejudice it againft Government. It would be peculiarly hard if Minifters were to be tried on the ground of answers extorted from them by questions infidiously and irregularly put, and then carefully carefully conveyed to the public through diforderly and unconftitution channels, though they were acquiefced in, he meant the public newspaper. He appealed to the House whether he was not juftified in ftating, that all the mifrepresentations, however great they were, with refpect to the prefent fubject, were all owing to the indifcreet difcuffion which the Noble Duke (the Duke of Bedford) had brought forward a few nights ago. The Bill being read a second and third time, and agreed to unanimously, The Duke of Bedford addreffed the House, and said, that as he had not taken advantage of the regular courfe of replying to the laft fpeech of the Noble Secretary of State, because he wifhed not to delay the Bill a moment longer, he flattered himself their Lordships would then favour him with a few moments attention. He was glad, he faid, the Noble Secretary had spoken out; he was glad to hear him openly charge him with being the cause of the calamities which had happened in confequence of the difcuffion he had brought forward. He had, as a Lord of Parliament, thought it his duty to afk Minifters if they intended to bring that important fubject before the House, and for this act of duty he had been charged with being the fole cause of the calamity which had fince occurred. He appealed to the House, if he had not on that occafion spoken with the greatest caution; and he thought it would easily be ascertained whether the calamity was owing to what he said, or to the answer that was made him by a certain Noble Lord in Administration who was not then in his place. That anfwer was---Here his Grace was interrupted by Lord Sydney, who spoke to "order, and contended that it was not regular to allude to a former debate, and more especially to the speech of a perfon who was not present. The Duke of Bedford proceeded, and allowed that it was not ftrictly in order to allude to a former debate, though in the courfe of this evening it had been done by the Noble Secretary of State. He had not either expressly mentioned the words of the answer he had alluded to, though the Noble Secretary had exprefsly mentioned them. He flattered himself, therefore, he had not been much wanting in point of order. He fhould make no fcruple, however, in alluding to that speech, if he thought it neceffary, in juftification of his own character, though the First Lord of the Admiralty had not thought proper to attend in his place on the prefent occafion. He had no doubt but he could fhew moft clearly that it was to that Noble Lord's answer, more than to any thing that fell from him, that a late calamity originated. And his Grace faid, he thought the Noble Secretary, before he made fuch charges, ought to take care of making them |