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who could not be experted to stand any longer in that relation towards us.

Mr. Fox said an argument used by the Worthy Baronet who spoke first, that the honour of the country was engaged, had been very unfairly stated, and said that there was no colourable reason for entertaining suspicions of the Emperor. He suspected, however, that the Emperor was fincere in his negotiation for peace, because he had declared it to his subjects, and without thinking him guilty of the groffest perfidy, of which even a crowned head ever was guilty, he could not suspect him of an intention to deceive. It was clear that this declaration related to a separate peace. Were we comprehended in it? Was an Ally ever mentioned? If we were meant to be included, Mininisters would have been so informed ; but they had never said that any such provision had been made. Shall we forget our honour then if we refuse further supplies to the Emperor? In 1795, if he had argued, that because we had agreed to that Loan, we were bound for another in 1797, would he not have been accused of arguing very unfairly? It was a little hard that when the Emperor was compelled to negotiate a separate peace, this country was to be held bound to continue pecuniary advances which they might formerly have allowed.

Sir William Pulteney said, that we were not indeed bound by treaties, but there were obligations equally binding among nations. It was not clear that it was a separate peace which the Emperor was negotiating. If, however, he was driven to that necessity, the blame lay with the Chancellor of the Exchequer in not bringing forward that measure sooner. He was glad that responsibility was not with the House, and he hoped, therefore, that the Vote would pass immediately.

Mr. Curwen was against the Loan altogether, though he fhould vote for the delay. He thought the Report of the Secret Committee should be fully discussed as soon as possible.

Mr. IVilberforce Bird thought that the advances to the Emperor had been a principle cause of the stoppage of the Bank; he was against the Loan. The House divided. For the original Resolution,

193 Against it, - - - - - 50

Majority, . .

- 143 When Strangers were again admitted into the Gallery, we found the Chancellor of the Exchequer moving, in the Committee of Supply, a Resolution, that a discount of 5 per cent. be allowed to such Subscribers to the new Loan as should anticipate a part only of their payments, as at present the discount was on

No. 34.



ly directed to be allowed to such as compleated their whole payo ments.---Agreed to.

The House being resumed, Mr. Hobart brought up the Report of the Committee. Adjourned


Tuesday, May 2. Lord Grenville brought a Message from his Majesty; the same as that which was brought to the House of Commons on Saturday, and taken yesterday into consideration in a Committee of that House.

The Message being read,

Lord Grenville said, he thought it his duty to state in respect to the House that he had it in command from his Majesty to make this communication sooner. That on Saturday it was impoffible, as their Lordships did not fit ; that yesterday he came down to the House at the time when business usually commenced with their Lordships, but the House happened to be adjourned. He now moved, “That his Majesty's Message be taken into consideration on Thursday next May 4th, and that the Lords be summoned."--Ordered.---Adjourned.

be summeration on ThurTihat his Majappened to be


Tuesday, May 2. The Report of the Committee of Supply was brought up, and the Refolutions were agreed to by the House.

The following are the names, remaining on the reduced lift, for a Committee to try the merits of the petition against the election for the city of Canterbury:

J. Alleyn, Esq. CHAIRMAN.
J. Dennison,

W. Mitford, Esq.
A. Strahan,

Sir G. Heathcote,
J. R. Beaumont,

T. Grosvenor, Esq.
Sir C. Hawkins,

J. H. Strutt,
Lord Morpeth,

Sir T. Franklin,
W.H. Nelbit, Esq. Lord Grey,


1. S. Lefevre,

J. Richardson, Esq. The Report of the Committee on Ways and Means was brought up, and the Resolutions were agreed to.

Mr. W. Smith asked, how the terms in the present British Loan were worse for the public in consideration of the Loan to the Emperor, whereas when the last Imperial Loan was contracted for, the terms of the Loan for this country were better on that account?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that on the last Loan for the Emperor there was a very considerable bonus, whereas


the present is borrowed on nearly the same terms with that for this country.

Mr. Mainwaring brought up the Bill for preventing the forestalling of butcher's meat, which was read a firft time, and ordered to be printed.

The Merchant Seamens' Bill passed through a Committee of the whole House. Adjourned.


Wednesday, May 3.

ROYAL NUPTIALS. Lord Grenville brought down a message from the King, defiring the assent of their Lordships to the marriage of her Royal Highness the Princess Royal, to the hereditary Prince of Wirtemberg.

The message being read,

An address was moved by Lord Grenville, which was, as usual, an echo of the message, and which was voted nem. diss.

SECRET COMMITTEE. The Duke of Bedford said, that he was not present in the House when the Report of the Secret Committee was laid before their Lordships on Friday the 28th ult. He now took an opportunity of declaring his dissent from that Report, and moved that their Lordships be summoned on Friday the 12th inst, to take it into consideration. He gave notice at the same time, that he would then move some resolutions upon the subject of that Report. Their Lordships were ordered to be suinmoned to attend on that day.

MUTINY OF THE SEAMEN. The Duke of Bedford asked, whether any of his Majesty's Ministers had it in charge, from his Majesty, to make any communication upon the recent iinportant transactions which had occurred in the marine department? If no such comınunication was made, either now or on a future day, he should find himself called upon to bring a subject, so connected with the best interests of the country, before their Lordships, by moving for the production of certain papers connected with it.

Earl Spencer replied, that he had it not in charge from his Majesty to make any communication to the House, nor did he foresee that any communication would be made upon that subject.

Earl Howe said, that as his name had been mentioned in the transaction alluded to, he had anxiously waited for a suitable opportunity to explain to their Lordships the part which he had acted in the business. Had any censure been attached to his profeffional character, he would have looked to another quarter for an inquiry into his conduct. But as the blame which had fallen 7 X 2


upon him in the present instance related to his conduct in a capacity different from that of an officer, he looked to their Lordships for his vindication. The explanation, therefore, for which he was called upon, he should take an opportunity of giving when the Noble Duke brought the subject before the House. He expressed a with, however, that for the sake of the service, the business had never been brought under discullion, for the Legislature would be brought by it into a most delicate situation. Either they must approve of transactions which there was no man who did not with had never happened, or they must withhold that approbation, and thus acknowledge that they have made concessions under the pressure of the moment which they think improper to confirm.

Lord Grenville agreed entirely with the Noble Earl (Howe) of the inexpediency and impolicy of bringing the subject under discussion, and entreated their Lordships to allow matters to rest as they were. He had, therefore, no hesitation in declaring that he should steadily oppose any motion which might be made for the production of papers relating to a subject of such a delicate nature, that it could not be agitated without risking the most serious danger.

The Duke of Clarence took the opportunity to express his opia nion that the Noble Adrniral's conduct had been perfectly unexceptionable, and that when the opportunity arrived, he would be able to vindicate himself in a manner consonant to the illustrious character he had always maintained; he also coincided with the Noble Admiral, in deprecating the discussion of the subject, as likely to be productive of no possible good effect. It was a question that deeply involved the material point of naval discipline. It appeared to him, in the arrangement that had taken place, speaking merely as an officer, and with a view to the fundamental rules of discipline, to be improper to have complied with the demands of the seamen, however the concession might have been politic or proper in other points of view,

The Earl of Carlisle did not presume to give any opinion upon the propriety or impropriety of entering into the discusion of transactions to which no one was a stranger at the present moment, But he wished to know whether the period for discussion was never to come; whether their Lordships, as forming one branch of the Legislature, were to be kept in perpetual ignorance of events which were the moít serious in their nature of any that had ever occurred in the country, and which had shaken the pillars of the state to their very foundation ? With respect to the period which might be the most fit for agitating matters certainly of great delicacy, there was no man for whole opinion he should have so much deference, as that of the Noble Earl (Howe). But as a Member of that House, he could not affent


to the doctrine of Government holding perpetual silence upon these transactions.

Earl Howe again rose. He observed he felt the full force of the propriety of the Royal Duke's remarks on the affair, with a view to naval discipline; but what appeared to him to be the question, in a Parliamentary discussion of the business, was, Will you agree to the terms made by the Admiralty with the seamen, or not? If the terms were fully ratified, it would virtually be giving a sanction to their conduct: if refused, it would shew the feamen that no reliance was to be placed on the promises of Government; and the consequences this idea might have, were easier to be seen than described. As circumstances stood, he had no hesitation in saying, that the engagem.nts made by the Admiralty should by all means be fulfilled by Parliament.

The Duke of Bedford said, he was now too well acquainted with the issue of Motions in that House, which the King's Ministers intimated their intentions to oppose. He certainly therefore should not make an atte:npt to bring the present subject into discussion, which he well knew would be fruitless. But if he could conceive any terms in which he could couch a Motion for the production of the papers connected with it, he would make that Motion now; as the transactions, however, to which he referred, were without a parallel in history--for he knew of no instance but the present in which the Ministers of the King had entered into correspondence and negotiation with any body of his Majesty's subjects---to conceive the proper terms for a Motion on such a subject was no easy task. If any mode occurred to him of obtaining these papers, he should propose it to the House on a future day without any preface or recommendation, leaving it entirely to the decision of their Lordships,

Lord Viscount Sydney deprecated all discussion upon a subject of so great delicacy as the present, as it could do no good, and might produce much harm. He allowed, however, that if it was to come in any shape before their Lordships, that proposed by the Noble Duke was the fimplest, and therefore the best.--Whether the discussion might or might not be brought on at a future time, he could not take upon himself to determine; all he contended for was, that the present was not the proper time.

Earl Howe role a third time, and said, that by what had transpired, it was not likely that he should have a filter opportunity than the present moment, for stating to their Lordships (to whom alone he had to look up for his justification) the share he had in the unfortunate transaction before alluded to, which to the best of his recollection was this:--

Between the second week of last February, and the middle of March (his Lordship being then confined by illness at Bath), he


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