Imágenes de páginas
PDF
EPUB

Mr. SOLOMON. Oh, no, no; I am just now-in three years down to a hundred and eighty-five head.

I am

Senator ASHURST. They cut you within three years from three hundred to a hundred and eighty-five?

Mr. SOLOMON. Yes.

Senator ASHURST. Now, your death losses were considerable, owing to the drouth, were they not?

Mr. SOLOMON. Well, yes; there have been some.
Senator ASHURST. You had some death losses?

Mr. SOLOMON. Yes; it usually amounts to about 10 per cent.
Senator ASHURST. The condition of the range went down?
Mr. SOLOMON. Been going down for several years.

Senator ASHURST. Isn't it a fact that your death losses should have carried such reductions as ought to have been made? Mr. SOLOMON. I should think so.

Senator ASHURST. And notwithstanding that, they cut you down to a hundred and eighty-five.

Mr. SOLOMON. Yes; I am down to a hundred and eighty-five head. Senator ASHURST. Have you been notified of any other reductions? Mr. SOLOMON. Yes; I think there is a small reduction for 1925. Senator ASHURST. Notwithstanding the enormous death losses up to date?

Mr. SOLOMON. They will come at you like this: I am not finding any direct fault with the forest supervisors or the forest officers, you understand, but I just want to show you the conditions under which we have been laboring and also to help you remit this last dollar payment this last half of 1925. You might say, in October, 1924, on this high-priced farm of mine I began feeding nearly all the cattle that I own.

Senator ASHURST. Not having sufficient grass?

Mr. SOLOMON. Not having any grass at all, so to speak.

Senator ASHURST. Yes.

Mr. SOLOMON. On any of this range out here.

Senator ASHURST. Å jack rabbit would have to carry a haversack to live?

Mr. SOLOMON. He certainly would. Of course, on this high-priced farm of mine I raise lots of hay. Well, I have been feeding my cattle in order to avoid this death loss. This remittance for the first half of the year has been a great help to us.

Senator ASHURST. The first half, and we hope to be able to remit them for the last half.

Mr. SOLOMON. And we hope you will succeed with the last half. That is the little cowman's condition, and, of course, it applies to the bigger also.

Senator ASHURST. Then you feel that owing to the depressed market conditions, the extreme drought, and the lack of forage that the fee ought to be remitted for the last half of this year. What have you to say about next year?

Mr. SOLOMON. Well, I think

Senator ASHURST. It ought to be remitted?

Mr. SOLOMON. I certainly do under the conditions, Senator. It looks like it. I don't think there is any cowman that is able to pay it.

Senator CAMERON. All right, sir. Thank you very much.

Mr. BOWDEN. I understand you would like to say something

more.

Mr. MARLEY. Yes.

Mr. BOWDEN. Are you acquainted, Mr. Marley, in general with the lay of the public domain in this State?

Mr. MARLEY. Pretty well acquainted; generally speaking, I am. Mr. BOWDEN. Starting in here at Globe, will you state to the committee the lay of the public domain north and south of this town?

Mr. MARLEY. The most of the public domain lays from here in a southwesterly direction. Going south from here, after we get over the canals you run into the public domain there, and there is considerable public domain from there to the border. There are forest reserves on top of some of those mountains and there are some farming settlements, but it is mostly open.

Mr. BOWDEN. Practically all in large tracts?

Mr. MARLEY. I think the public domain near lays practically all in large tracts.

Mr. BOWDEN. That are south of Globe?

Mr. MARLEY. South and west.

Mr. BOWDEN. How far west?

Mr. MARLEY. To the Colorado River. As soon as you get over here by Superior a short distance, on the other side of Superior, you go off of the forest reserve, and from there to the Colorado River it is all open.

Mr. BOWDEN. From there west, you mean?

Mr. MARLEY. From there west to the Colorado River is all public domain, except the Salt River Valley lands, and occasionally homesteads and such as that.

Mr. BOWDEN. It is in large part open range?

Mr. MARLEY. It is in large part open range in that direction. Mr. BOWDEN. And your isolated-tract problem does not amount to much in that area?

Mr. MARLEY. No.

Mr. BOWDEN. Now, then, going north, what condition do you find north of here?

Mr. MARLEY. Well, we find north, the forest reserve and Indian reservation, all the way to the top of the Mogollon Mountains, running a short distance on the other side down about 20 miles, where you run into railroad land, where every alternate section is public domain. That runs the full length of the Santa Fe. After you cross the Santa Fe then you find Indian reservation mostly on the north, any distance on the north.

Mr. BOWDEN. Indian reservation, national park, and forest reserve? Mr. MARLEY. Yes; after you get north of that railroad land and public domain. All the way along the Santa Fe you have got every other section public domain, with the exception of up here, and I think these tracts, they were made-they were State, you knowSenator ASHURST. Štate selections.

Mr. MARLEY. State selections; and there are quite a lot of them in there.

Mr. BOWDEN. Now, does the Santa Fe still own most of this land?

Mr. MARLEY. There is another company in there that bought part of that the San Francisco something; I don't know what it is; I have forgotten.

Senator ASHURST. The St. Louis & San Francisco?

Mr. MARLEY. Yes. That owns a lot of that land, and a lot of that land lies east of Holbrook, and from there I don't know. The Pittsburgh Land & Cattle Co. bought a bunch of it. Then after you get around Flagstaff, the Babbitts bought some, Pollock bought some, and I don't think the railroad owns much of that. I believe they have sold most of it, although I couldn't say, only just from general talk. I think they have sold the most of it.

Mr. BOWDEN. There has been a recommendation made to the committee that these alternate sections be grouped together in blocks so that the railroad could, under the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, exchange alternate sections for a township or land in a block. What do you think of such a recommendation?

Mr. MARLEY. I think that would be very good. It would put the railroad land in shape so it could be handled, and also put the Government land in shape so it could be handled. As it is, you have got to get the two together before it is anything, so that laying like it is it is hard to handle.

Mr. BOWDEN. Having but 660 acres, you haven't enough to do anything with, have you?

Mr. MARLEY. No.

Mr. BOWDEN. At the same it breaks up the public range.

Mr. MARLEY. Yes; that is it exactly.

Mr. BOWDEN. That system might be suitable for an agricultural community, but it certainly is not for a grazing community.

Mr. MARLEY. Not for grazing it isn't, because every alternate section won't do.

Mr. BOWDEN. Have you any comments you wish to make about the success or failure of the 640 stock-raising homestead entry in Arizona?

Mr. MARLEY. No; I have not. I know very little about it.

Mr. BOWDEN. In your judgment is a great part of the public domain left in this State suitable only for grazing purposes? Mr. MARLEY. Absolutely.

Mr. BOWDEN. And can not be homesteaded?

Mr. MARLEY. Absolutely there is only one way that it could be homesteaded or used otherwise, if it had some means of getting water to it.

Mr. BOWDEN. Some means of irrigation?

Mr. MARLEY. Of irrigation; and there is a great part of the public domain in Arizona that as it is isn't suitable for anything but jack rabbits. That is this desert country that lies off down here. Just as it is, it doesn't amount to much.

Senator ASHURST. Without water?

Mr. MARLEY. Without water it doesn't amount to much.

Senator CAMERON. Thank you, Mr. Marley. Now, I promised to hear these Indians at 5 o'clock and it is 5 o'clock. If there is any other person who wishes to appear before the committee in the interest of the cattle industry he may be here to-morrow morning at 9.30. I will further announce that to-morrow we would like to hear

from the mining men if they have any suggestions to offer this committee.

Now, who is the spokesman for the Indians?

MANUEL VICTOR. I am.

Senator ASHURST. Do you speak English?
MANUEL VICTOR. Yes.

Mr. BOWDEN. Where do you live?
MANUEL VICTOR. Rice.

Mr. BOWDEN. On what reservation is that?
MANUEL VICTOR. San Carlos Reservation.

Mr. BOWDEN. Are the other Indians here present residents of that reservation?

MANUEL VICTOR. Yes, sir; all these Indians are.

Mr. BOWDEN. You wish to make a statement?

MANUEL VICTOR. Yes, sir; this is Belvidore. He is going to talk and the rest of the boys are going to talk, and they wanted me to interpret what they want to say.

Senator CAMERON. Now, then, who is going to talk first?

MANUEL VICTOR. Oliver Belvidore.

Mr. BOWDEN. Where does he live?
MANUEL VICTOR. San Carlos.

Senator CAMERON. He is an Apache?

MANUEL VICTOR. Yes, sir.

Senator CAMERON. And lives on the same reservation?

MANUEL VICTOR. Yes, sir.

Senator CAMERON. Tell him to proceed.

MANUEL VICTOR. Well, he says, "I am glad to meet you all here. I have been wishing to meet you long before this time." He says, "I have been wishing that I could go over there and see you folks, but to-day I have an opportunity to come and see you and talk with you. I just wish to announce the condition of my reservation, how the condition of the reservation is. I am not the only one here on the reservation, but the rest of the Indians want me to talk for the whole tribe. I am now talking for the old and young people." Well, he says, "This reservation has been established here, has been put aside for the Indians, and now they are already putting in a dam. Just when we were getting a good start here, now they are going to flood us out with a dam. I find that the cultivation of land, that farming is the most important industry. I have worked and farmed a little, and we believe in farming. But now they are going to flood us out. We, the Apaches, here on the San Carlos Reservation, are just the same friends you have down below the dam, and I wish to beg you to treat us the same as you treat those Indians down below." He means the Pimas and Papagos that they are building a dam for. "I just came to beg you that we want the land, our farming land, which is fenced. If it is flooded, why we want the money, and pay cash for the land. Those who have farming lands that are going to be flooded out, we want the cash paid for it, and those grazing lands that they are going to flood out, we wish that they would pay cash for it, and we would buy cattle with it. There is a tribal herd here, but there is a ranch here of cattle. We wish them to buy those cattle for us, so we can make our headway. I am talking for the young, those that in the future, that they may live and have a start ahead

with these cattle, and raise them." He says, "I beg you all-I am old, but I am talking for my children.

"There are a lot of them in school and learning, so they can make their own living; support themselves in the future times. We wish to beg you all that we wish to say that we would like to get under farming land, and have another dam built on the San Carlos, Box Canyon, up there at the head of Blue River, so they can get out more farms for these Indians that they are going to flood out. And I wish to ask you that we would like to have this dam to be started just as soon as this other dam site go in. We do not want to wait to start on this dam site. If you give us the money to build the dam for us, too, at the same time, when this dam site is coming in, then when we are flooded out there, we can take up another land and start our new homestead there. In this way our children will find that there is land, and they will be happy over it. And I beg you all that you take this matter up for us.' He says, "It is a pretty long ways to talk to you people back there in the East, but now you have come here and we can talk together with you all." He says, "You will find me talking the same way as you people are talking here, tootalking for something, so that they can support themselves. While I have never been to school, and I don't understand what you people are talking about, but I am here begging and talking for my tribe. I want you to think this matter over for me, whether it is right or wrong, the way I am talking. I want to ask you another thing: I want to know about the railroad; if they change the road, how will it be? Will we have to pay for the new right of way again; then they have to pay us for the land?"

Senator CAMERON. Where they take the roadbed out of the valley and put it up on the mesa?

MANUEL VICTOR. Yes; he wants to know if they are going to buy the land for the right of way again, and then pay the Indians.

Senator CAMERON. All of the money that will be brought in by the sale of the right of way will go to the Indians.

MANUEL VICTOR. He says, "Well, I understand now that we will get that money, and that is the way we wanted to know. We wanted to find out something. When we signed the treaty with the railroad company, when they were first building the railroad, they made a treaty that they would pay for all of the stock that was killed, and we didn't know any better. Then a lot of us Indians were killed, and we didn't make any treaty to pay for the damage of the killing of the Indians. There has been a lot of other Indians killed, and nothing has been said. Another treaty that was made was that all the Indians should ride trains, whether a special train or a regular train, free of charge. Now, we all pay wherever we go."

Senator ASHURST. Tell him whenever an Indian is killed to please report it to the Indian agent, or the agent of the railroad, and the agent of the railroad will arrange it with the railroad company, wherever an Indian is killed.

MANUEL VICTOR. We have reported to the agent, but nothing has ever been done.

Senator ASHURST. When was the last Indian killed by the train there?

MANUEL VICTOR. 1913.

« AnteriorContinuar »