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This is a little tedious, but I think that I am developing a very important point which will help us all through the later discussion of this matter.

CHAPTER X, THE ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL COUNCIL ARTICLE 61. (1) The Economic and Social Council shall consist of eighteen members of the United Nations elected by the General Assembly.

(2) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (3), six members of the Economic and Social Council shall be elected each year for a term of three years. A retiring member shall be eligible for immediate reelection.

(3) At the first election, eighteen members of the Economic and Social Council shall be chosen. The term of office of six members so chosen shall expire at the end of one year, and of six other members at the end of two years, in accordance with arrangements made by the General Assembly.

(4) Each member of the Economic and Social Council shall have one representative.

ARTICLE 62. (1) The Economic and Social Council may make or initiate studies and reports, with respect to international economic, social, cultural, educational, health, and related matters and may make recommendations with respect to any such matters to the General Assembly, to the Members of the United Nations, and to the specialized agencies concerned.

(2) It may make recommendations for the purpose of promoting respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms for all.

(3) It may prepare draft conventions for submission to the General Assembly, with respect to matters falling within its competence.

(4) It may call, in accordance with the rules prescribed by the United Nations, international conferences on matters falling within its competence,

ARTICLE 63. (1) The Economic and Social Council may enter into agreements with any of the agencies referred to in Article 57, defining the etrms on which the agency concerned shall be brought into relationship with the United Nations. Such agreements shall be subject to approval by the General Assembly.

(2) It may coordinate the activities of the specialized agencies through consultation with and recommendation to such agencies and through recommendations to the General Assembly and to the Members of the United Nations.

ARTICLE 64. (1) The Economic and Social Council may take appropriate steps to obtain regular reports from the specialized agencies. It may make arrangements with the Members of the United Nations and with the specialized agencies to obtain reports on the steps taken to give effect to its own recommendations and to recommendations on matters falling within its competence made by the General Assembly.

(2) It may communicate its observations on these reports to the General Assembly.

ARTICLE 65. The Economic and Social Council may furnish information to the Security Council and shall assist the Security Council upon its request.

ARTICLE 66. (1) The Economic and Social Council shall perform such functions as fall within its competence in connection with the carrying out of the recommendations of the General Assembly.

(2) It may, with the approval of the General Assembly, perform services at the request of Members of the United Nations and at the request of specialized agencies.

(3) It shall perform such other functions as are specified elsewhere in the present Charter or as may be assigned to it by the General Assembly.

Article 67 has voting provisions. Article 68 has provisions dealing with the setting up of commissions in economic and social fields for the promotion of human rights. [Reading :)

ARTICLE 69. The Economic and Social Council shall invite any Member of the United Nations to participate, without vote, in its deliberations on any matter of particular concern to that Member.

At the time the United Nations Charter was before the Senate, we had an interpretation of those chapters both by the Secretary of State and in the hearings on the Charter. I should like to read you briefly from the interpretation of the Secretary of State. It was dated, as you recall, June 26, 1945, in the Secretary's report to the President on the

results of the San Francisco Conference. I am reading from page 115 of this particular compilation of material, as follows:

The statement of purposes is followed by article 56, which reads as follows: "All members pledge themselves to take joint and separate action in cooperation with the Organization for the achievement of the purposes set forth in Article 55."

The Secretary of State is now discussing these two chapters, IX and X, in the United Nations Charter: No corresponding provision occurs in the Dumbarton Oaks text. Early in the Conference the Delegation of Australia introduced a lengthy amendment which would pledge all members of the Organization "to take action both national and international for the purpose of securing for all peoples, including their own, improved labor standards, economic advancement, social security, and employment for all who seek it," and to report annually upon steps taken in the fulfillment of the pledge.

These are objectives which have the full support of the Government and the people of the United States. The United States Government has repeatedly demonstrated its desire for international cooperation toward the achievement of steadily rising levels of economic activity, free from disruptive fluctuations, throughout the world. Thus, the United States Delegation deemed it perfectly appropriate for the member states to pledge themselves to cooperate with the organization for the achievement of these purposes.

On the other hand, the view was advanced that the further element in the Australian proposal calling for national action separate from the international organization went beyond the proper scope of the Charter of an international organization and possibly even infringed on the domestic jurisdiction of member states in committing them to a partciular philosophy of the relationship between the government and the individual.

The pledge as finally adopted was worded to eliminate such possible interpretation. It pledges the various countries to cooperate with the organization by joint and separate action in the achievement of the economic and social objectives of the organization without infringing upon their right to order their national affairs according to their own best ability, in their own way, and in accordance with their own political and economic institutions and processes.

To remove all possible doubt on this score, the following statement was unanimously approved and included in the record of the Conference (report of the Rapporteur of Committee 3 of Commission II):

The members of Committee 3 of Commission II are in full agreement that nothing contained in Chapter IX can be construed as giving authority to the Organization to intervene in the domestic affairs of member states."

It was no simple matter to hammer out these issues and to reach complete agreement among the 50 participating nations. The final results, however, justify the effort. The Charter opens the way for international cooperation in the economic, social, and related fields on a scale unknown in the past. And it safeguards at the same time the right of nations to live their own lives free from unwarranted interference.

The CHAIRMAN. While the Senate Foreign Relations Committee was conducting the hearings on the Charter under the chairmanship of Senator Connally, Mr. Pasvolsky was the technical expert for the State Department. Senator Connally permitted me to ask Mr. Pasvolsky some questions with reference to Chapters 9 and 10 of the Charter of the United Nations, and wherever the question occurs here, it is my question, and the answers are Mr. Pasvolsky's. I am reading from page 309 of the report of the hearings on the Charter, as put out by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee:

Senator MILLIKIN. I notice several reiterations of the thought of the Charter that the Organization shall not interfere with domestic affairs of any country. How can you get into these social questions and economic questions without conducting investigations and making inquiries in the various countries?

Mr. PASVOLSKY. Senator, the Charter provides that the Assembly shall have the right to initiate or make studies in all of these economic or social fields. It is provided that the Economic and Social Council, through its commissions and

its staff, would be assembling information in the fields that would be necessary for the performance of its duties. It is provided that the Economic and Social Council would arrange for reports from the specialized agencies, and presumably would arrange for receiving any kind of information that it might need. The Economic and Social Council is also given the power to make arrangements with the member states for reports as to steps taken to give effect to recommendations.

Senator MILLIKIN. Might the activities of the Organization concern themselves with, for example, wage rates and working conditions in different countries?

Mr. PASVOLSKY. The question of what matters the Organization would be concerned with would depend upon whether or not they had international repercussions. This Organization is concerned with international problems. International problems may arise out of all sorts of circumstances.

Senator MILLIKIN. Could the Organization concern itself with tariff policies of the various countries?

Mr. PASVOLSKY. The Organization would of course consider questions that arose out of tariff or commercial policies. But it is very important to note here that the Economic and Social Council can make recommendations to government generally, rather than to specific governments.

Senator MILLIKIN, Only to governments generally?

Senator MILLIKIN. The reports and recommendations naturally might refer to specific governments?

Mr. PASVOLSKY. Oh, they might refer to specific conditions, naturally.

Senator MILLIKIN. They would have to be built up out of investigations made of or in specific countries?


Senator MILLIKIN. Would such an organization concern itself with the various forms of discrimination which countries mainiain for themselves, bloc currency, subsidies to merchant marine, and things of that kind?

Mr. PASVOLSKY. I should think that the Organization would wish to discuss and consider that. It might even make recommendations on any matters which affect international, economic, or social relations. The League of Nations did. The International Labor Office has done that. This new Organization being created will be doing a great deal of that.

Senator MILLIKIN. A recommendation along any of those lines, under the basic theory of the whole Organization, would have a powerful effect against an offending nation, would it not?

Mr. PASVOLSKY. The whole document is based on the assumption that recommendations by an agency of this sort would have considerable effect.

Senator MILLIKIN. Let me invite your attention, Doctor, to the fact that we are relatively a "have” nation, in a world of "have not" nations. Might we not find a great number of recommendations focused against us that could finally engender a lot of ill will and might lead to serious difficulties, assuming we did not care to correct them under the recommendations?

Mr. PASVOLSKY. Well, I do not think that there would any more ill will engendered by the fact that a discussion of that sort takes place. Recommendations would be made to nations in general that certain practices would not be tolerated.

Senator MILLIKIN. Are you not providing means whereby complaints may be focused against ourselves in an official way?

Mr. PasvoLsKY. Complaints can be made at any time and in any way. What is important is that we are providing here a mechanism by means of which maladjustments can be corrected and, therefore, fewer complaints made.

Senator MILLIKIN. Would the investigation of racial discriminations be within the jurisdiction of this body.

Mr. PASVOLSKY. Insofar, I imagine, as the Organization takes over the funetion of making studies and recommendations on human rights, it may wish to make studies in those fields and make pronouncements.

Senator VANDENBERG. At that point I wish you would reemphasize what you read from the Commission report specifically applying the exemption of domestic matters to the Social and Economic Council.

Mr. PASVOLSKY. I will read that paragraph again.
Senator VANDENBERG. Yes, please.
Mr. PASVOLSKY (reading):

"The members of Committee 3 of Commission II are in full agreement that nothing contained in chapter IX can be construed as giving authority to the Organization to intervene in the domestic affairs of member states."

The CHAIRMAN. And, furthermore, whether they do involves no compulsion whatever, but is in the nature of recommendations to the states, and the states are perfectly free to take such recommendations or reject them. Mr. PASVOLSKY. Quite right. The CHAIRMAN. That colloquy continues. Senator CONNALLY. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt? The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Senator CONNALLY. You do not quote it, but there is another clause in the Charter that specifically denies to the United Nations any right to intervene in the domestic affairs of any nation.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator, I am grateful to you for calling that to my attention.

Senator CONNALLY. It was specific. We had a good deal to do with putting it in, I will say that. It is early in the Charter, section 2 of article-I cannot put my hand on it now.

The CHAIRMAN. But there was an even fuller development of the interpretative statement that the one which I have read, all to the same point.

Now, Mr. Secretary, what I am leading to is this: Under the interpretation of the Charter by the Secretary of State to the President, under the interpretation of the Charter by the Delegates at San Francisco, and under the interpretation of the Charter developed from State Department witnesses, by members of the committee and others at the hearings, it is very clear that anything done under the authority of the Social and Economic Council can have nothing other than recommendatory power, do you agree with that?

Mr. CLAYTON. Well, I do not pretend to be able to speak with authority on that, Senator Millikin, because I have not been a student of the United Nations Charter. I have been so busy with other things that I have not had opportunity to study that as carefully as I should like, but my idea would be that that may be correct.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, if that be correct, we have a very simple point of reference for studying the specific provisions of the Charter to see whether anything exceeds the authority which such an organization could have?

Mr. CLAYTON. Yes, I believe so. The CHAIRMAN. And it would follow that if there is anything in the Charter which does exceed that authority, which goes beyond recommendatory force, that it is either null and void or should be eliminated from the Charter?

Mr. CLAYTON. That would follow.
Senator CONNALLY. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt?

Senator CONNALLY. Here is article 2, section 7, of the United Nations Charter, which reads as follows:

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any State or shall require the Member to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII,

Senator HAWKES. Mr. Chairman, may I ask Senator Connally, because he spent a great deal of time on this United Nations Charter, is there not a provision that says in there something to the effect that anything that jeopardizes the peace of the world becomes the business of the United Nations and the Security Council?

Let me follow through just a moment. The distinguished Under Secretary of State has stated that economic problems are the problems that lead to the wars and create the havoc that we have had since time immemorial. If that be so, and economic problems jeopardize the safety, security, and peace of the world, has not the United Nations a right to step in and do what it sees fit to do in connection with an internal problem of any nation signatory to the Charter?

Senator CONNALLY. Is your question directed to me?
Senator HAWKES. Yes.

Senator CONNALLY. I just quoted you that paragraph. It exempts chapter VII, and chapter VII is the one on the Security Council.,

Now, while economic matters may be the source of a good many conflicts that eventuate in war, we do not deal with them in the Charter until they get to that point. We do not go back to the fountainhead where the stream originates, but it must get to the point where there is threat to the peace or breach of the peace or an act of aggression, before the Security Council steps in and takes cognizance of the matter, so I do not think your question could be answered “Yes;" I think it would be answered, "No."

Senator Hawkes. I would think that the thing was out of our hands to answer yes or no. I think that the nations signatory to the United Nations, the Security Council would determine the issue that I have just brought up. I do not think we would have anything to say about it.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator, may I suggest to you that we are dealing with a specialized agency operating under the Charter of the United Nations. So, as far as the authority of the Economic and Social Council is concerned, by what has been read here you can see very clearly that it has no authority and of course no subordinate agency could have any greater authority than to make recommendations. That goes to the heart and core of our inquiry, and I bring it out at this point, as sort of notice to you, Doctor (addressing Dr. Clair Wilcox) that every grant of power in this proposed Charter will be weighed and tested by the question whether it is recommendatory or whether it goes beyond recommendation,

Now, Mr. Secretary, you are familiar with the charge that you are sending to Geneva a large number of men. As I recall it, you are sending about 60.

Mr. CLAYTON. More than that. I think it may be around 80 to 100.

The CHAIRMAN. That you are sending a large number of men to Geneva who are immature, or who have had no practical experience in life and, therefore, are not qualified to do the trading that is required to be done if we are to do good business in connection with these trade-agreement negotiations, and the same point is made as to the negotiators in connection with this Charter.

You will recall that I asked you only a short time agoand I am not critical if you do not have the information today—to provide me with the names of the persons who are going to Geneva, with biographies of those persons. May I ask, has that material been prepared?

Mr. Wilcox. That will be here today or tomorrow morning.
Mr. CLAYTON. I signed a letter and sent it up about noon today.

The CHAIRMAN. That came in at noon but I did not find the material in there.

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