Mr. TROVATTEN. Certainly.

Mr. REED. The next year, 9,000,000 pounds plus.

In 1937, 11,111,000 pounds. In 1943, 3,264,000,000 pounds. Whenever the price started to get up where the dairy farmer could earn a living and could get the cost of production in come the imports to break the market.

Mr. TROVATTEN. That is right.

Mr. REED. We import not only from New Zealand but Denmark does the same thing and even Cuba does it in a limited way and so do the Netherlands.

You are faced with that situation. You know, as well as I do, and you have so testified, that the cost of production is far below the cost of production here in those countries.

Mr. TROVATTEN. That is true.

Mr. REED. The climate favors them, does it not?

Mr. TROVATTEN. Yes, sir, and so does the labor cost.

Mr. REED. Therefore, you know that the reciprocal trade people have gone over to Geneva for the express purpose of lowering tariff. They never have raised the tariff on one single agricultural item. Do you know of any?

Mr. TROVATTEN. I think all of the proposed agreements are on agricultural products, are they not?

Mr. REED. Yes; here is what they want to lower tariffs on. Local milk, fresh or sour; cream, fresh or sour; buttermilk; milk, condensed or evaporated; dried cream; dried skim milk; dried buttermilk; butter, oleomargerine, and other butter substitutes.

That is what they advertise to the world that they are going to reduce the tariffs on.

You do not think it is going to help you or the farmers, do you, if they reduce the tariffs as proposed in here, cutting them 50 percent? Mr. TROVATTEN. I cannot see how the farmers will be able to exist on it.

Mr. REED. In fact you can go through the list here and they have the local farmer on the auction block. They are selling us down the river. That is what their plan is.

Is there any doubt in your mind that the cost of production of competitive goods, dairy goods or any other, is far below the cost of production in foreign countries? You have no doubt but what it is lower?

Mr. TROVATTEN. In other countries, yes.

Mr. REED. When goods can be produced at home, when they are displaced in our market by goods from abroad, that means the loss of a pay roll here, does it not?

Mr. TROVATTEN. It certainly does.

Mr. REED. What supports your cities up in your State? Is it the profits or is it the pay roll?

Mr. TROVATTEN. It is the pay roll.

Mr. REED. Exactly.

Mr. TROVATTEN. The pay roll is made by agricultural products. Mr. REED. And in turn, also, the pay rolls make this possible, to market your products; is that not true?"

Mr. TROVATTEN. That is right.

Mr. REED. Yet under their theory of government, they would lower our prices down to the world level.

Now if we do that, that is bound to drive down our standard of living; is that not right?

Mr. TROVATTEN. Certainly.

Mr. REED. Have the farmers of this country ever had any experience heretofore with low tariffs?

Mr. TROVATTEN. I do not think they have, to my way of thinking, except probably in a few instances.

Mr. REED. Whenever they have had low tariffs it has been disastrous?

Mr. TROVATTEN. That is right.

Mr. REED. That has happened several times, has it not?

Mr. TROVATTEN. That is right.

Mr. REED. You do not believe in the theory that the gentleman from New York, the city farmer, brings in that we should buy in the market where the goods can be produced the cheapest?

Mr. TROVATTEN. They do not believe that when it comes to labor or anything else.

Mr. REED. No; not at all.

There is only one source from which the people of the cities can live, and that is from the farms. Is that not true?

Mr. TROVATTEN. That is true.

Mr. REED. It is very easy to forget that. Even the gentleman from New York could not live unless it was for the farm producing the food, and the farmer cannot exist unless he gets the cost of production. That is the theory of your argument, is it not?

Mr. TROVATTEN. That is definitely the theory of my argument. Mr. REED. That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. Any questions?

Mr. COOPER. I have just one question, if I may ask it:

You asked some questions about butter and dairy products in Canada.

Is it not true that Canada, herself, exports a great deal more butter than they import?

Mr. TROVATTEN. Definitely.

Mr. COOPER. Is it not true also in this country?

Mr. TROVATTEN. Not very much.

I do not think we export a great deal.

Mr. COOPER. I happened to see some figures here from the Tariff Commission in the domestic line for 1943. It shows here "Domestic Exports, $43,136,000."

Mr. TROVATTEN. Would that not be for war purposes?

Mr. COOPER. It also shows imports of, I think, according to this, about 782,000 pounds.

Mr. TROVATTEN. I think we definitely had exports during the war, but that is not a normal condition.

Mr. COOPER. Do we not export more than we import even in normal times?

Mr. TROVATTEN. I do not think so.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you through, Mr. Cooper.

Mr. COOPER. Yes.

(The following table was submitted by Congressman Cooper of Tennessee:)

Butter-United States production, exports, and imports, 1929, 1933, 1935–39, and 1943

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Trovatten, Mr. Cooper asked you about the exports of 1943. It is true we exported an enormous quantity of dairy products, and we ourselves could not get any butter because it was all being shipped abroad.

and

Mr. EBERHARTER. Mr. Trovatten, pursuing that subject of imports exports of dairy products a little further, I notice from the table I have here, prepared by the Department of Commerce, that in 1946 the value of dairy products imported into this country was $12,075,000, whereas the value of dairy products exported was a total of $296,105,000. Now, that includes, of course, the exports under UNRRA and lend-lease, but the commercial exports in 1946 alone amounted to $162,704,000 as contrasted with $12,075,000, so that our commercial exports in the year 1946 on dairy products was 131⁄2 times the imports.

I ask unanimous consent, Mr. Chairman, to insert this table in the record at this point because we have just been discussing that subject. There is also in the table a history of these imports and exports of dairy products, which shows conclusively that since the adoption of the trade agreements program, instead of having an excess of imports of dairy products, we have an excess of exports of dairy products. Mr. KNUTSON. What is the paper from?

Mr. EBERHARTER. The source is the Department of Commerce.
The CHAIRMAN. It will be inserted.

Mr. EBERHARTER. On page 3 you say this:

I want to make the point that the rest of the world does not have an overage of agricultural products, and that our trade agreements, in connection with curtailments of our farm acreage in the 1930's, contributed largely to bringing about a condition which made it possible for communism, nazism, and fascism to fasten themselves upon other nations.

In other words, by that I take it that you mean the rest of the world does not grow enough agricultural products practically to feed themselves?

Mr. TROVATTEN. Not a sufficient diet, I should think.

Mr. EBERHARTER. And yet you are fearful that these countries which do not grow enough to support themselves will export food products into this country, which will ruin the agricultural industry?

Mr. TROVATTEN. I forget what year it was, Congressman, but I think it was in 1942 or 1943 that we were importing about 500,000,000 pounds of products from India when the natives were starving to death by the hundreds of thousands. It just showed that we were buying food away from them that they should have rightfully had themselves, but they did not have the money with which to buy it.

Mr. EBERHARTER. Then you would favor, I take it, as you say on page 3 of your statement, that we should pursue a policy to be automatically in a position to prevent the buying of food that other nations need. In other words, you would favor this country's adopting a policy of not buying any food from those other countries that needed it themselves?

Mr. TROVATTEN. I think that is sound, is it not?

Mr. EBERHARTER. That is your policy?

Mr. TROVATTEN. That is my policy, yes.

Mr. EBERHARTER. And you would pursue that policy until the world prices all over the world on food approached the level of prices in America?

H

Mr. TROVATTEN. That is what I would like to see.

Mr. EBERHARTER. Now, I would like to have you elaborate a little bit with respect to this paragraph on page 3:

I want to make the point that the rest of the world does not have an overage of agricultural products, and that our trade agreements, in connection with curtailment of our farm acreage in the 1930's, contributed largely to bringing about a condition which made it possible for communism, nazism, and fascism to fasten themselves upon other Nations.

Now, I take it that you believe our trade-agreements program helped to plunge Germany into nazism, Italy into fascism, and Russia into communism?

Mr. TROVATTEN. No. I think that happened long before we had trade agreements, but I think that we have produced quite a few Reds in this country through some of these ideologies.

Mr. EBERHARTER. I am asking you about your prepared statement. You say in that paragraph that our trade agreements contributed largely to bringing about a condition which made it possible for communism, nazism, and fascism to fasten themselves upon other Nations. Do you want to reaffirm that statement or do you want to contradict the original statement and say it is not true, that the trade agreements did not contribute largely to bringing about a condition which made it possible to have communism in Russia, nazism in Germany, and fascism in Italy?

Mr. TROVATTEN. It is doing that not only in the foreign countries but also in here, too.

Mr. EBERHARTER. In what way did the trade-agreements program contribute to communism in Russia?

Mr. TROVATTEN. In Russia. I am talking about the United States. Mr. EBERHARTER. You say, "made it possible for communism, nazism, and fascism to fasten themselves upon other nations." You are not talking about the United States. This is your prepared statement, remember.

Mr. TROVATTEN. That is right.

Mr. EBERHARTER. And I assume that when you dictated it you carefully checked it so that you could stand on it.

Mr. TROVATTEN. I think so.

Mr. EBERHARTER. Did the trade-agreements program contribute to the fastening of communism on Russia?

Mr. TROVATTEN. Well, the recent trip of Henry Agard Wallace indicates that we are just heading that way, does it not?

Mr. EBERHARTER. I am not talking about the United States, and your statement did not refer to the United States. You cannot tell me? Mr. TROVATTEN. He just came from Europe.

Mr. EBERHARTER. Can you tell me how the trade-agreements program contributed to communism in Russia?

Mr. TROVATTEN. Did I mention Russia?

Mr. EBERHARTER. "Other nations," that is what you said, so that is a fair question, is it not?

Mr. TROVATTEN. I do not think so.

Mr. EBERHARTER. You do not think it is a fair question?

Mr. TROVATTEN. I do not think it is.

Mr. EBERHARTER. Can you tell me how the trade-agreements program contributed to nazism in Germany?