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COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

SIXTY-SIXTH CONGRESS.

ANDREW J. VOLSTEAD, Minnesota, Chairman. DICK T. MORGAN, Oklahoma.

RICHARD YATES, Illinois. GEORGE S. GRAHAM, Pennsylvania.

WELLS GOODYKOONTZ, West Virginia. LEONIDAS C. DYER, Missouri.

ROBERT Y. THOMAS, Jr., Kentucky. JOSEPH WALSH, Massachusetts.

WILLIAM L. IGOE, Missouri. C. FRANK REAVIS, Nebraska.

WARREN GARD, Ohio. JAMES W. HUSTED, New York.

RICHARD S. WHALEY, South Carolina. GILBERT A. CURRIE, Michigan.

THADDEUS H. CARAWAY, Arkansas. DAVID G. CLASSON, Wisconsin.

M. M. NEELY, West Virginia. W. D. BOIES, Iowa.

HENRY J. STEELE, Pennsylvania. CHARLES A. CHRISTCPHERSON, South HATTON W. SUMNERS, Texas. Dakota.

W. C. PREUS, Clerk.

SEGREGATION AND ANTILYNCHING.

(SEGREGATION, PART I; ANTILYNCHING, PART II.)

SERIAL 14.

PART I.

SEGREGATION.

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, D. C., January 15, 1920. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. A. J. Volstead (chairman), presiding..

The CHAIRMAN. Are you ready to be heard on the Mason resolution ?

STATEMENT OF MR. MOSES MADDEN.

The CHAIRMAN. Give us your name and place of residence.
Mr. MADDEN. Moses Madden, St. Louis, Mo.

The CHAIRMAN. Give us a statement of anything you want to say in favor of or against this resolution.

Mr. MADDEN. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the Judiciary Committee, concerning this resolution I indorse it with some corrections. The resolution provides for a commission to be appointed to gather facts and information for the purpose of outlining a remedy to promote the well-being of the diverse races in the United States. I object to the expression “diverse races in the United States” as that could be taken to mean Chinamen, Japanese, and Mexicans and all other races in the United States. I think this should point more direct to the conditions that exist in the United States with reference

to white and black people. There is no race other that has the same to complain of as the Negro has. There are no race riots between any people but negroes and white people in the United States and I believe this ought to say “to promote the well-being of the Negro in the United States."

Another point here, it says that this commission shall consist of 9 persons; 2 to be appointed by the President of the United States; 2 to be appointed by the President of the Senate, and 5 to be appointed by the Speaker of the House of Representatives. I do not believe that the House of Representatives should have more power than the Senate. I do not believe that the House of Representatives should have more power than the President of the United States. I believe that the President of the United States should appoint 2, the Senate 2, the House of Representatives 2, and the commission itself the other 3. It says “who represent the most numerous branch of the population.” I object to that as it would mean simply that this commission would consist of white men only, they being the most numerous branch of the population. I believe this commission should consist of 9 persons, 5 white and 4 colored to adjust this matter satisfactorily. I further believe that the scope of this investigation should be far reaching enough to take in the Republic of Liberia and to see what the possibilities are for the Negro to be returned back home. I further believe that there should be some limit to this report that is being made. Just to send a man out to make an investigation, without any limit to it, he might think he had a lifetime to make it in. With these exceptions I highly indorse that resolu

tion.

I have in connection with that another proposition I would like to offer you. I have been speaking the United States over for the last two years; have been in every State in the Union and 90 per cent of the people, both white and colored, wherever I go highly favor the separation of the two races. It is a concentrated conclusion today that the only solution for the race problem is to separate the two races. In times past when a man got out and made a speech on separating the two races, he only made one. The next time there was nobody there to talk to but prophesy yesterday is history to-day and at every speech I make the crowd doubled itself. There have been many pamphlets written along this line and circulated among the people and as a result contain many errors both in facts and effect and tend to confuse rather than enlighten the people but from time to time have tended to give satisfaction. So many and varied has this subject been treated by predecessors in our long history that one would possibly have some difficulty in selecting a theme. I escape this, however, by breaking fresh ground and bringing to your attention the Negro in America. No other movement has the same interest. You are here dealing with eleven million people, double the population of Scotland, recently not men but slaves. In many parts of the South, where the Negro outnumbers the white men, he jumped from the cotton patch to Congress, but due to his short. comings he was not able to get results and was not able to defend himself, and so was left without representation. It takes 1.000 voors of hard labor to educate a child, so you should not hope to complete your labor with the Negro in one generation. The children of the liberated slaves met and married and the childen borne under thom

were a little more intelligent than their parents had a chance to be, and so with the succeeding generations as they have a chance for education. You white people have had 5,000 years of education while the Negro has had only 50 years and so can only hope to get his experience as the years come and go.

Due to the shortcomings in the education of the Negroes they are not able to interpret the language they are using, nor the prayers they are saying. The Negro to-day does not know the difference between law and the Constitution. In my judgment there is not a single clause in the Constitution that provides for the Negro. The thirteenth amendment set the Negro free. The fifteenth amendment guarantees the right of citizenship. The white man makes the law, interprets the law and enforces the law, and the Negro must obey the law. Going into the interpretation of the thirteenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth amendments to the Constitution. First, Constitution is not law; it is only the basis of the law. The thirteenth amendment was that no slavery should exist in the Union, which simply prohibits a man from owning slaves and when this was adopted, the Indians of a tribe known as “Creeks” adopted his slaves, after which they became citizens by virtue of adoption. There was also another tribe known as Choctaws who refused to adopt their slaves but under certain acts of the third and fourth articles of their treaty they gave them 40 acres of land, after which the slaves were known as Choctaw freedmen. The white men also failed to adopt his slaves, and while the foxes of the woods had holes and the birds of the air nests, they turned the Negro loose without any adoption and without any place to put his head. The Negro is known as an American freedman but not one Negro out of the 11,000,000 knew that with the passing of the fourteenth amendment all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside, but all Negroes born prior to 1868 were not born as persons but as property.

Anything that you can buy or sell is property and not a person. That it says, “subject to the jurisdiction thereof," which means that a man can be assessed taxes and must pay taxes. Could the Negro so be assessed prior to the adoption of this amendment? No. The question answers itself. Then here comes Oklahoma with the "grandfather law” which provides that any man whose grandfather was not a voter under some form of government can not be a voter in that State, thus disfranchising the Negro.

Mr. MORGAN. You know that law was held unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of the United States.

Mr. MADDEN. I only make mention of these things to show that the Negro has not gotten anything under the Constitution and I only make mention of this to show that we can not hope to work out his destiny without some guaranteed rights and the only solution is to separate the two races. The negro has got more to ask for than any other race. This country is made up of the vitality of other countries. Every man and woman that came to this country has come of their own free will and their own knowledge and consent. But the Negro did not come here of his own free will. They are the only people ever captured in their own country and forced to come to this country. If the Negro had voluntarily left his home, it would be a matter of choice, but to be captured and forced to come to this

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Mr. GARD. I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that you ascertain how many desire to speak on this resolution.

The CHAIRMAN. How many ?
Mr. MADDEN. Just myself.
Mr. WHALEY. I think he should have all the latitude he wants.

The CHAIRMAN. Be as brief as you can as we have other matters to take up.

Mr. MADDEN. I simply want to form a State down there in which

trines and the two races would be friends forever. This State would serve as a buffer State between the United States and Mexico, and would also serve to eliminate the Negro from the list of problems that

to do but when we can not do what we want to do we will do the next best thing. Whenever you send a inan to the penitentiary, on his release he is given a suit of clothes and $5; and the Negro, after 200 years of slavery, through no fault of his own, I think that $3,000 in money and transportation back home is little enough to ask for. Whenever the time comes that the United States will make provision for the Negro to live and set aside a plot of ground for him, they would go there faster than molasses will draw flies.

Mr. SUMNER. Would it interrupt you to suggest that you make some statement to the committee as to why it is more colored people do not show a disposition to return to Liberia, and what, in your judgment, is the opinion of colored people on the segregation of their race?

Mr. MADDEN. Africa has been pictured to the Negro as a land of snakes; a land of monkeys, tigers, and lions, and that is the way it has been described to him, and it is a feasible thought to him and has tended to confuse rather than to enlighten him. Liberia was set apart at one time for the Negro to colonize, but there was no Government assistance for him to get there, so it was impossible for him to go.

Mr. CURRIE. Are there not communities in this country now practically governed by Negroes, where the banks are run by Negroes, and the business places owned by Negroes ?

Mr. MADDEN. Bodey, Okla., a town of 6,000 inhabitants, which has three banks, postmaster, and the operator at the depot, all colored men, and they do anything in that town that they are doing in any other town of its size. The Negro has been trying many years to solve the race problem and to be the white man's equal in the white man's country, but has found that everything has proved a failure.

Mr. DYER. Who would do the work if the Negro were to go away?

Mr. MADDEN. I was in England, Germany, and France, and they get along nicely without the Negro, and you can do the same here.

Mr. DYER. Suppose there were 25 per cent of the Negroes who did not want to leave the United States, are you advocating force to compel them to go? Do you seriously think of such a thing as that ?

Mr. MADDEN. This is to be a voluntary act.

Mr. DYER. Then would not three-fourths of the Negroes stay where they are ?

Mr. MADDEN. There might be 25 per cent stay here, but there would not be enough to raise riots or support the Jim Crow car.

Mr. DYER. I am afraid that is just conjecture on your part.

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