Mrs. GREEN. By the use of the words "private citizens" are you limiting the membership?

Mr. THOMPSON. Yes. That would exclude Members of Congress. It would exclude, I should think, Government employees. It might be unnecessary to say that. I had not thought of that.

Mrs. GREEN. I thought we were all private citizens, and I was wondering if it was an attempt to restrict the membership to a certain class.

Mr. THOMPSON. I think you will find that your legislation says the same thing.

Mrs. GREEN. Yes, but I am wondering if it is necessary.

I wanted to go to another section.

Mr. THOMPSON. In response to Mr. Elliott's question, if I may, I woud like to say one more thing.

It is considered, I understand, restrictive by the administration when in my bill I say "in making such appointments the President shall give due consideration to a balance of representation from the seven major art fields appropriate to the activities of the Commission."

Mrs. GREEN. May I interrupt there? Do you consider the art of politics as included?

Mr. THOMPSON. That would come, I think, under literature, as all fantasy is, but not always written. Also I have seen a great deal of pure art and nothing more than art on television in political speeches, too. Some of it very poor, I might say. There is the art of acting, the art of deceit, the art of kidding the people, and so on, at which some people are expert.

Mrs. GREEN. May I go to another sentence at the top of page 4! Mr. Thompson, do you see any duplication of effort or any possible conflict with USIA?

Mr. THOMPSON. I see no duplication of effort, Mrs. Green. I have studied the activities of the USIA very carefully. I think they are badly in need of some advice and I think they would admit it. There has been conflict within the art world over some of the activities of the USIA stemming, I am sure, from outside pressures and from misunderstandings. For example, it is alleged and fairly well supported that in arranging for one exhibit of paintings to go abroad they established a rule that no painting should be sent abroad which had been painted since 1917 because of the possibility of propaganda appearing in the painting. The arrangement of the still life might instill bad ideas in some people's minds. If by chance they had a farmer with a sickle in his hand, it would be extremely dangerous, in their opinion, because that might indicate approbation of the hammer and the sickle.

Mrs. GREEN. Does not USIA have experts in the field to advise on their cultural exchange program?

Mr. THOMPSON. No, but the State Department does in a way. USIA does have an advisory commission on information however. ANTA, the American National Theatre Academy, advises the State Department, and is the agent for the Government, it being a congressionally chartered organization, for the arrangement of the performing arts. They send the symphony orchestra abroad, the dance troupes, and so on. I see no conflict. As a matter of fact, the USIA would welcome the advice which it could get from this Commission and which the Commission could offer, not necessarily would.

Mrs. GREEN. But USIA would not be bound by the advice? Mr. THOMPSON. No, it would not. However, suppose, for instance, the USIA were engaged in some fruitless enterprise in the field of the arts, and this Commission independent of it decided to look into it, to study it from its own vantage point. They might very well draw a suggestion which would correct or improve a situation, or they might even commend it for its activities and would so report to the President and to the Congress.

Of course, I am expressing here, and I should be very careful to say it, my opinion of what the activities of the Commission would be or perhaps even should be. It would not necessarily follow that they would be so.

Mr. ELLIOTT. I would like to have your comment on page 5, section 5, and particularly section 5 (b), Mr. Thompson.

Mr. THOMPSON. Unhappily I am not familiar with the precise sections of the code set forth in 5 (a). According to my recollection, this is a section included to prevent a conflict of interest and was recommended by counsel as being necessary for that purpose. It protects in my opinion the Government from unauthorized acts which might result from the exemptions set forth above.

Mr. ELLIOTT. As I understand it, the members of the Commission, including the Chairman, receive no pay other than the $50 per diem when they are actually in session?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right, sir.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Is there any limitation in the bill as to how much time they might spend in session in any 1 year?

Mr. THOMPSON. There is not. There is simply a requirement that they meet a minimum number of times.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Mr. Thompson, have you anything further? If so, we would be happy to hear you. You have been very kind to permit the numerous interruptions which I am sure have changed your course of thought and your manner of presentation somewhat. For that I beg your pardon, but the interruptions have enabled me to understand a great deal more about your legislation, I think.

Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. Chairman, I think they have been extremely helpful, and I am grateful for them. I think that we have elicited a considerable amount of valuable information from this. I want to express my very sincere appreciation for your consideration of this. I would like unanimous consent to include, to follow the statement which I have given ad lib and to follow the colloquy, a statement including an explanation of the bill, the Senate debate on the bill last year, the extremely valuable hearings conducted by Senator Lehman in May which I think are most valuable and I would commend to the committee's attention the report of the Metcalf subcommittee of last year. The testimony is not confined solely to this legislation. It also discusses the medal for distinguished civilian awards which we are not covering here today.

Mr. that this

has

of correspondence with the leading people in every field mentioned been developed by my staff and myself following a tremendous amount in the bill. It has the support of such distinguished people as Dr. Howard Hanson, of the Eastman School of Music at Rochester and president of the National Music Council, of organized labor, of the AFL-CIO, of the National Federation of Music Clubs, of almost

innumerable organizations who have carefully studied the legislation and the statements which I have sent them and written back over a period of 3 years now with specific recommendations.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Let me interrupt before you go further and say that, without objection, following the testimony of Mr. Thompson there will be inserted in the record a copy of the report of the Metcalf subcommittee on this bill last year, and a copy of the report on the Senate bill. I believe we have heretofore said that there would be included in the record a copy of the Senate bill itself.

In that connection are there other items that you suggest for the record before we get down to the endorsements of the legislation? Mr. THOMPSON. No, Mr. Chairman, I think not.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Particularly I want the record to carry Mr. Thomp son's written statement which he has given in somewhat disjointed fashion because of my interruptions. That will be made a part of the record of these hearings.

Mr. Thompson, I do not know when there has been a witness before this subcommittee who has given as much good, detailed, substantial information about a matter before the subcommittee as you have given us today. Your testimony has been very full and complete and very helpful. I express on behalf of the subcommittee our thanks for it.

Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sure it has not been perfect, and I will be available to answer any subsequent questions.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Thank you.

(The documents submitted by Mr. Thompson follow:)

STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE FRANK THOMPSON, JR., IN SUPPORT OF H. R. 3541

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, I am delighted that this subcommittee has finally reached this legislation to establish a Federal Advisory Commission on the Arts. Two of your members, Congresswoman Edith Green of Oregon, and Congressman Stuyvesant Wainwright of New York have both introduced this legislation.

This legislation was recommended to the Congress by President Eisenhower in his budget message of January 16, 1957. In his message on the State of the Union on January 6, 1955, the President told the Congress

"In the advancement of the various activities which will make our civilization endure and flourish, the Federal Government should do more to give official recognition to the importance of the arts and other cultural activities. I shall recommend the establishment of a Federal Advisory Commission on the Arts within the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare to advise the Federal Government on ways to encourage artistic and cultural endeavor and appreciation."

Under the brilliant leadership of Senator Herbert H. Lehman of New York, and with the loyal cooperation and support of Senator Alexander Smith of New Jersey the Senate passed this legislation last year.

This legislation came over to the House, and was considered by the full membership of the House Education and Labor Committee.

It was tabled there by a vote of 16 to 7.

My own feeling is that if it hadn't come at the end of the session as it did, that it would have turned out differently.

H. R. 3541

(Mr. Thompson of New Jersey. Introduced and referred January 23, 1957) Title: To provide for the establishment of a Federal Advisory Commission on the Arts, and for other purposes.

Summary: Establishes a Federal Advisory Commission on the Arts within the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare to be composed of 24 members broadly representative of all the major art fields and appointed by the President.

Directs the Advisory Commission to recommend ways to maintain and increase the cultural resources of the United States, to propose methods to encourage private initiative and its cooperation with local, State, and Federal departments or agencies so as to foster artistic and cultural endeavors and the use of the arts both nationally and internationally in the best interests of our country, and to stimulate greater appreciation of the arts by our people.

Directs the Advisory Commission to undertake studies of appropriate methods for encouragement of creative activity in the performance and practice of the arts and of participation in and appreciation of the arts, and to make recommendations with respect thereto.

Here is what Senator Lehman and Senator Smith said about their bill last year-when their bill, S. 3419, was up for Senate consideration:

"Mr. LEHMAN. Mr. President, this bill is a simple one. A number of hearings were held on the bill before a subcommittee of the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare.

"The background of the bill is as follows:

"In his state of the Union message of January 6, 1955, President Eisenhower urged that the Federal Government do more to give official recognition to the importance of the arts and other cultural activities and recommended the establishment within the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare of a Federal Advisory Commission on the Arts, which would advise the Federal Government on appropriate means of fostering the development and appreciation of the arts. In his message the President said:

"In the advancement of the various activities which will make our civilization endure and flourish, the Federal Government should do more to give official recognition to the importance of the arts and other cultural activities. I shall recommend the establishment of a Federal Advisory Commission on the Arts within the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, to advise the Federal Government on ways to encourage artistic and cultural endeavor and appreciation.'

"Subsequently, a number of bills were introduced in the Congress which carry out the recommendation of the President. Two of these bills, S. 3054 and S. 3419, were referred to the committee for its consideration. Senate bill 3054, introduced by the Senator from New Jersey [Mr. Smith], contained the proposals of the administration. Senate bill 3419 was jointly sponsored by the senior Senator from New York [Mr. Ives], the Senator from Montana [Mr. Murray], the Senator from Illinois [Mr. Douglas], and myself.

"A special subcommittee on the Federal Advisory Commission on the Arts was established by the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare, and the subcommittee reported the bill unanimously to the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare, which, by unanimous vote, has reported the bill favorably to the Senate, for its action.

"The bill provides for the establishment of an advisory committee--and I wish to emphasize that it is to be purely an advisory committee-to be composed of 24 members who are to be appointed by the President of the United States. The committee will represent all the arts.

"Mr. President, I believe the bill is an excellent one. In my opinion, it meets a need which has been recognized by the President of the United States and by many Members of Congress. I hope very much that the bill will be passed.

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"Mr. SMITH of New Jersey. Mr. President, will the Senator from New York yield to me?

"Mr. LEHMAN. Yes, Mr. President; but before I yield, let me say that the bill which has been reported is a compromise between the two bills to which I have referred. Therefore, the bill as unanimously reported by the subcommittee, of which the distinguished Senator from New Jersey [Mr. Smith] and I are members, and later the bill was unanimously reported by the full Committee on Labor and Public Welfare.

"At this time I am very glad to yield to the Senator from New Jersey. "Mr. SMITH of New Jersey. Mr. President, I am glad to add a word to what the distinguished Senator from New York has said.

"Two or three bills on this subject were introduced. One of them was introduced by me, at the request of the administration; and that bill represented the administration's point of view, most of which is embodied in the bill which finally was reported to the Senate by the committee.

"The distinguished Senator from New York went to great trouble in regard to this matter, and a number of hearings were held. At the hearings, all objections and other points which had been raised by various groups were considered. I believe we arrived at a measure in the form of the bill finally reported to the Senate which meets all the objections which might be raised.

"There was some thought that the Federal Government might, by means of the bill, be dealing with a subject with which it should not deal. However, of course the entire purpose of the bill is to encourage the development of all the arts, and for that purpose to establish a council which will understand and consider the problems in that connection, and will make recommendations to assist the arts in the United States to develop comparably to the development in the arts which has occurred in other countries.

"I know that the bill appeals very strongly to the President of the United States, and that he is happy to have a measure of this kind brought forward. "Therefore, Mr. President, I am happy to join the Senator from New York in urging that the bill be passed.

"Mr. LEHMAN. I thank the Senator from New Jersey.

"Mr. President, I emphasize that the bill meets with the approval of both the majority and minority membership of the committee.

"I ask unanimous consent to have printed in the Record at this point as a part of my remarks, a statement on the bill, as issued by the National Council on the Arts and Government. The statement is signed by 300 of the leading members of the arts in the United States.

"There being no objection, the statement was ordered to be printed in the Record, as follows: "NATIONAL COUNCIL ON THE ARTS AND GOVERNMENT, "New York, N. Y., July 9, 1956. "Over 300 men and women, eminent in the arts and public life in 30 States, have subscribed their names to an appeal to Congress to enact at this session legislation requested by President Eisenhower to set up a Federal Advisory Commission on the Arts,' the recently formed National Council on the Arts and Government announced today.

"We believe,' the signers declared, 'that the welfare of the Nation's arts is a proper matter for the concern of its Government and that such legislation would serve the interests of the Nation as well as those of the arts it would promote.'

"The signers of this statement represent music, drama, dance, literature, architecture, painting, sculpture, graphics, photography, motion pictures, radio, television, and also art museum directors, patrons of the arts, art critics, universities, and art schools.

"The National Council on the Arts and Government consists of representatives of the seven major art fields and is the first national organization in the United States concerned primarily with governmental activities and legislation affecting all the arts. The Council called attention to the fact that these art bills were sponsored by both Democrats and Republicans in Senate and House and that of the large number of societies and institutions concerned with different arts in America only one art society in the field of sculpture opposes this Federal Advisory Commission which President Eisenhower recommended. "The full statement and list of 318 signers [p. 152] is attached.