$16,000 on wage payments, including vacation pay. We are very happy to see now that we can send employees who work in Maryland to Baltimore now. I am sure you will be able to help them there. Mr. DALY. I would like to ask a question of this gentleman. Does your law include vacation pay?

CONFEREE. It says "earned wages." We interpret earned wages to mean vacation pay, where it has been promised.

President CATHERWOOD. Let's come back to vacation pay.

Director LAURETA. I think we have the same laws that New York has as far as having penalty provisions in the wage collection laws. However, the question that was asked before on this matter of payment 7 days after the wages are due, we recognize the fact, too, that a lot of businesses in Hawaii have their parent corporations on the mainland and they do have a centralized payroll method of procedure system. So upon the application of a corporation, we will consider granting them more than 7 days if they can prove to us that compliance with our law. Our law permits us to grant them an extension in order to accommodate them. Now, on the other matter, too, of reciprocal agreement between States, as Mr. Bortz mentioned in his talk, Hawaii and California have entered into a formal agreement. This permits us, thereby, to help each other out in going after employers in the State of Hawaii who decide to close up and go to California. So we can chase them there. On this other matter of twice a month pay, our law does require biweekly payments. However, on elections conducted by the Department, if they decide they want to have once a month pay, they will be permitted to do so after the election.

President CATHERWOOD. I believe you have more flexibility than we may have under our law. Although I thought at times that we may have stretched our law a little bit to correspond with the practical problems in which you refer.

Mr. BOGGS. How do you get into an agreement with the State of California? Did you have anything on your statutes to give you the authority to enter into an agreement with another State on a reciprocal basis?

Director LAURETA. We enacted a law which permits us to do that. Commissioner BOGGS. How many States do that? We do not have any such thing. We would need authority to enter into such a thing.

Director LAURETA. We amended our wage payment law, which specifically permits us to enter into reciprocal agreements with any such States.

President CATHERWOOD. We have no such reciprocal arrangements in New York. I think we probably would have to have statutory authority to formalize it to that degree in New York.

Mr. DUVALL. It is interesting to hear of your coverage into the area of domestic work. Many of the States' statutes do not have authority to collect wages for people in housecleaning or babysitting work. Many times, when a complaint is given to us, if it sounds like a reasonable complaint, we will follow through and make a contact on their behalf, clearly indicating that we do not have statutory authority. It is surprising the number of good results we get from it.

Deputy Commissioner LEFKOWITZ. In regard to bankruptcy, one of the areas we were concerned with was the garment industry. A subcontractor from a New York garment factory every yes would complete his line around Easter or Christmas. As soon he completed it, he would take all the assets of the corporation, g into bankruptcy, and leave about 200 women without their la week's wages, and go to Florida. Next year he would come bac and do the same thing. I had that in mind when we amended ou wage payment law. We can now hold employers or managers, who ever is knowingly responsible for paying the wages, and we have done that. We have had a great deal of success in breaking through this corporate structure, this corporate veil, by permitting us to go after the corporate officers. We have resolved that problem.

Mr. Moss (Colorado). As a practical matter, do you have any minimum standards beyond which you attempt to collect wages? How about a $5 wage claim, or a $2.50 claim, or a $10 claim?

Mr. DALY. We will take any claim. But the extent to which we go, of course, will depend upon the amount. Our attorney general of the State of New York does not entertain any case where there is less than $50 involved, unless we can show that the violator has been a consistent one, and that others in the aggregate went over $50.

President CATHERWOOD. But most of our work is done before these cases get to the attorney general. You may collect many that you could not get the attorney general to take.

Director LAURETA. Might I just add something to what Mr. Moss said. Hawaii has no minimum. We will take anything. Likewise, there is no maximum. At one time we would not entertain taking a wage claim assignment up to $500, I believe. But we eliminated that provision so that we will take any claim now. I understand, too, that there are other States that have a maximum they will consider before taking the wage claim assignment. But in Hawaii we do feel that any person who has wages coming to him, regardless of the amount, has earned it and, certainly, we will help him. At one time, philosophy behind the $500 limitation was to the effect that you would be taking business away from the attorney. But

our business concerns ourselves with the welfare of the workingmen so we knocked off the maximum, also.

Deputy Commissioner WELCH. You have to have it. In the last session of the General Assembly of Maryland, a law was passed which deals with public authority-amusement parks. We have no authority under our law of assuming this responsibility. But we are doing it. Now, if someone wants to complain about it, then I am quite sure that the General Assembly of Maryland will take some appropriate action. What we are working on at the present time is Dr. Catherwood's law. I feel more and more that you gentlemen must do this. You are going to have to accept the responsibility and do it.

President CATHERWOOD. Thank you for your suggestion.

I suppose, as commissioners, we are all faced with the problem. There are many areas which are not completely black and white as to what the better part of valor is in terms of moving on our own responsibility into areas that need moving. In some, the guidelines are so specific that it would be foolhardiness to go flatly against laws as they are written. But we are all presently engaged in trying to get the law improved.

Mr. REESE (Delaware). I would like to know what you do about unauthorized withholding for gasoline attendants and things like that?

President CATHERWOOD. Unauthorized what?

Mr. REESE. Withholding of wages.

Mr. DALY. Our laws do not require deductions from the wages earned by the employee, so these withholdings are not authorized by law. We would not permit a deduction for that purpose.

Director TIBBS. Since we are the home base of Bethlehem Steel, I thought I had best rise. We have had no problem whatsoever with Bethlehem Steel. Our law reads that the payment must be made according to the terms of a written employment agreement, or within 15 days of the date earned, or as is customary in the trades, which, of course, does give some flexibility.

There are a few other points that I would like to make. One is that we have no minimum or maximum. We have wondered about that and I would like to hear from some of the other States that do have minimums and maximums to see if we could consider amending our law to put a maximum and a minimum in. We have made collections as low as 40 cents. I think that is the lowest we have made, and over $6,000. We do have quite a few referrals from attorneys. We have run into the problem of complainants telling us that the attorney advised that they must pay them a percentage

of whatever we are able to collect for them. This is another problem. We permit no withholding except as provided under law or by written agreement between the employer and the employee. I think that covers the points. But I would like some discussion.

President CATHERWOOD. You raised a specific point. You would like some observations from States that have had experience with minimums and maximums?

Director TIBBS. Yes.

President CATHERWOOD. Two or three contributions have already been made. Commissioner Laureta has pointed out that they abandoned what was previously a $500 maximum. Two or three other States have indicated that they have no minimum. I think in our circumstances in New York that nobody is likely to propose a minimum.

Let's hear from some other States which may not have the same convictions.

Mr. BoGGs. We do not have a minimum nor a maximum.
President CATHERWOOD. Do you want either?

Mr. BOGGS. We do not want it; definitely not. And the other thing, under withholding from pay: To withhold money from an employee's pay, the employer must have the employee's written and signed consent to do so. There is no objection to an employer lending a man working for him $10 if he wants to borrow. But he cannot withhold that $10 in pay unless the employee has signed a voucher authorizing him to do it.

President CATHERWOOD. Is the attitude of New Hampshire the same?

Commissioner DUVALL. Yes. In 1963 we adopted a model wage claim law that had originated in IAGLO with a few modifications in certain areas to comply with the options. It does not spell out fringe benefits, and I am running into a legal problem on that, which we hope to correct.

Commissioner CABE. We have no minimum nor maximum. We take any amount. If a lawyer is involved, we would tend not to. In situations where we have, it has been a rather unusual situation. It may well be that a waitress, collectively or individually, may have instituted suit with a lawyer. Then in our going through the restaurant making the collection, we may actually make collections where a lawyer is involved. What we have done and this can cause legal problems-is to make it clear that in any situation where we know there is a lawyer, it will be clarified. We feel that this is so well known that the lawyer is obligated to let us know he is involved in a case. Except in that type situation, we would

not enter if a lawyer was there. But other than that, we would take any amount.

Mr. DALY. We ignore the attorney in this respect. And through our collections, as a result of them, we send a check directly to the employee.

Commissioner CABE. We do that.

Mr. DALY. One other thing in connection with the deductions. We have permitted deductions, for example, where it was for the best interest of an employee for union dues. None of these were spelled out in our law but they will be in the law that takes effect on October 1, whereby if the employee authorizes the employer to make a deduction and it is for the benefit of the employee-and we spell out, too, that there may be legal deductions for savings bonds and premiums-we would permit it.

Commissioner CRANE. Dan, suppose the lawyer filed a claim for nonpayment of work performed in behalf of the employee?

Mr. DALY. We want the claim submitted by the employee.
Commissioner CRANE. This lawyer had worked for him.

Mr. DALY. If he sent it in to us and we were successful in our efforts in collecting it, we would still send the money to the employee.

Commissioner CRANE. I mean, the lawyer is trying to collect his

fee.

Mr. DALY. The lawyer?

Commissioner CRANE. Yes.

Mr. DALY. Let him get it from the employee.

In my own opinion, there should be no limit on the amount. Also, it is your duty and authority to enforce these laws. You have no right to work for an attorney. But you would expect complaints from anybody, including attorneys. We do deal directly, even though we may receive a complaint from an attorney, but we are finished with him from that point. From thereon in, we are dealing with the party that has been injured. Out of courtesy, we may keep the attorney informed on what we have done. We have no right working for him in our enforcement.

However, there is another type of wage claim. It does involve violations of laws, as such. I think New Jersey is rather unique in this. We have a labor court in which any employee in the State may file a complaint, the same as he would in a municipal court. For example, we frequently get them from car salesmen on the question "who sold the car?" The salesman claims that he is entitled to his commission. We are limited on that type of wage claim. Our responsibility is up to $300. In that instance, we take complaints of attorneys because we act as a court.