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Mr. CLARK. They made money during the last twenty years right straight along, ever since the mines were opened?

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLARK. And are still making it?

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir; some.

Mr. CLARK. You take a well-established property down there where they have a good supply of " jack "--that is what you call it? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLARK. And it runs along even, what per cent are they making in the business?

Mr. MITCHELL. I am not acquainted with all the mines; I can not answer that question.

Mr. CLARK. You come here to testify as an expert?

Mr. MITCHELL. No; I am not an expert.

Mr. CLARK. Then they ought to put somebody who is an expert on the stand and take you off.

Mr. MITCHELL. I know, Mr. Clark, that from 40 per cent to 50 per cent of the mines are closed down and have been for over a year. They started to close down in 1907.

Mr. CLARK. That was during the panic which affected every industry in the United States?

Mr. MITCHELL. They started to close down before the 1st of July last year on account of the falling away of the prices in the district. Mr. CLARK. The reason for that was that the price of zinc had been so high that you had made an overproduction in the market?

Mr. MITCHELL. The price of zinc was not high in the early part

of 1907.

Mr. CLARK. How high was it?

Mr. MITCHELL. It was about $47.

Mr. CLARK. What is the highest it ever was?

Mr. MITCHELL. Fifty-five dollars in the early part of 1905.

Mr. CLARK. How much was it under the McKinley bill?

Mr. MITCHELL. I can not tell you.

Mr. CLARK. Is there anybody present in this vast multitude who can answer that question?

Mr. MITCHELL. It was very much less than it is now.

Mr. CLARK. They made money then?

Mr. MITCHELL. They were mining a different proposition. They were mining soft ground that ran a very high percentage of zinc in the ore. The machinery that was required in the mining was very simple. In mining at the depth of 150 feet, where we are now mining, the percentage of ore is very much less than it was in the upper land, and you have to have more expensive plants. You have to handle free ore in order to make any money.

Mr. CLARK. The better the ore the less money you make; is that your proposition?

Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir.

Mr. CLARK. Then why not work that ore now?

Mr. MITCHELL. It is already worked out.

Mr. CLARK. The truth of the whole business is that the ore lies in pockets?

Mr. MITCHELL. The sheet-lead ore is in pockets.

Mr. CLARK. Lead and zinc both?

Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir. The upper runs were in pockets, running from 75 to 150 feet in depth.

Mr. CLARK. Are you making any money?

Mr. MITCHELL. We could make money, but we are not running. Mr. CLARK. Why do you not run if you could make money?

Mr. MITCHELL. We expect to run when the prices go up.

Mr. CLARK. I thought you said a moment ago that you could make money?

Mr. MITCHELL. Some of the men are making money.

Mr. CLARK. If you can make money, why do you not run?

Mr. MITCHELL. That is a business proposition. I can make more money if the prices of ore go up.

Mr. CLARK. Certainly, and the farmer can make more money if the price of corn goes up. If you can make money, why do you not stay there and try to make the money instead of coming here asking for a high duty?

Mr. MITCHELL. Simply because the price of ore has not gone up sufficiently. I am not going to run until it goes up to a certain price. Mr. CLARK. You have fixed the price?

Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir; but the price of ore has been going up. Mr. CLARK. The truth is that you found out in the last few months that there was not any tariff on zinc and you thought you should be put in the bill with the rest of them?

Mr. MITCHELL. We found it out four years ago.

Mr. CLARK. You knew it when you went into the business?

Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir.

Mr. CLARK. Did you not just say that you went down there four years ago?

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir; but we did not know anything about it until after that.

Mr. CLARK. Your ore runs 60 per cent and the Mexican ore runs 40 per cent?

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLARK. And the Mexican has to pay the cost to get it up here to the smelter, and yet, with an advantage of 20 per cent in the production, you can not compete with him?

Mr. MITCHELL. We can not compete when they open up the Mexican mines and they ship in as much stuff as they expect to.

Mr. CLARK. You are just speculating on what they will ship?

Mr. MITCHELL. We know there is a large development down there and large construction of lateral railroads, and we know from what examinations have been made that we may expect very large importations of Mexican ore.

Mr. CLARK. Suppose, after you got the tariff tacked on here, it should turn out that it was all a fake about the Mexican ore coming and busting you, and it turned out that there was not any Mexican zinc, then would you come here and ask that the duty be taken off? Mr. MITCHELL. I do not think we would ever be put in that position.

Mr. CLARK. I asked you a simple question.

Mr. MITCHELL. I do not think that is a fair question.

Mr. CLARK. You do not know that there is any zinc in Mexico? Mr. MITCHELL. Not personally, but I know it as well as any man


Mr. CLARK. Who runs the Mexican mines--mostly Americans?
Mr. MITCHELL. Some of them.

Mr. CLARK. The Americans own pretty nearly everything in Mexico that is worth owning; is not that true?

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes; some Americans do. We know that there are large deposits of Mexican ore and that there is a very large development and that they are going to ship it in here or to Europe, and we presume it is coming here.

Mr. CLARK. Do you not think that the zinc owners of the United States ought to be willing to contribute their part to run the United States Government, just like the balance of us have to do?

Mr. MITCHELL. I suppose they can contribute their part.

Mr. CLARK. If you are afraid of this infinitesimal competition from Mexico, it does not seem to me that your patriotism reaches a high stage.

Mr. MITCHELL. It is not infinitesimal when it amounts to 105,000 tons in one year.

Mr. CLARK. What was the total production in the United States last year?

Mr. MITCHELL. Nine hundred and two thousand tons.

Mr. CLARK. And you can not compete with the 105,000 tons imported from Mexico?

Mr. MITCHELL. The Mexican ore comes in direct competition with the Joplin ore, because that is the ore which the smelters use for the purpose of making spelter.

Mr. CLARK. There is not any ore in the United States that amounts to enough to be worthy of consideration except in the Joplin district and in the Flat River district, is there?

Mr. MITCHELL. We are not mining zinc in the Flat River district. Mr. CLARK. Missouri and Arkansas and the northeastern corner of Indian Territory produce 70 or 80 per cent of all the zinc produced in the country?

Mr. MITCHELL. I understand they are producing ore in Idaho and Utah.

Mr. CLARK. They are trying to produce it in Idaho and Utah, but, as a matter of fact, what is known as the Kansas-Missouri zinc district, which embraces southwestern Missouri, southeastern Kansas. and northeastern Oklahoma and a piece of Arkansas, produces more than 70 per cent of all the zinc ore produced in the world?

Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir.

Mr. CLARK. Is not that what the owner says when he wants to sell his mine to somebody?

Mr. MITCHELL. I never tried to sell a mine to anybody.

Mr. CLARK. They do sell mines to some people?

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Your statement is an extravagant statement when you say that they produce over 70 per cent of the production in the world.

Mr. CLARK. How much do they produce?

Mr. MITCHELL. I stated a little while ago that the Joplin district produced 70 per cent of the spelter produced in this country. I do not know what the production of the ore is in the foreign countries.

Mr. CLARK. Is it not infinitesimal as compared with your district? Mr. MITCHELL. No; it is not. If you will turn to the spelter pro

duction in European countries, you will find that there is a great deal of spelter produced in foreign countries.

Mr. CLARK. You get zinc and lead out of the same hole in the ground?

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir.

Mr CLARK. How much does lead sell for?

Mr. MITCHELL. It sells now for $54 a ton.

Mr. CLARK. How much is zinc selling for?

Mr. MITCHELL. About $40 a ton.

Mr. CLARK. How much profit are you making on the lead?

Mr. MITCHELL. I can not say; I do not know.

Mr. CLARK. You come here to enlighten the committee and then can not answer the questions asked. Is there anybody here who knows how much the profit on lead is?

Mr. MITCHELL. I doubt it.

Mr. CLARK. I mean the miner, the man who owns it. Give me the name of somebody in this audience who knows the profit on lead. Mr. MITCHELL. Mr. Ihiseng, I think, can answer those questions. Mr. CLARK. Do you know, Mr. Ihlseng?

Mr. IHILSENG. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLARK. Are you going to take the witness stand?

Mr. IHLSENG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The duty of 20 per cent was collected to how long ago?

Mr. MITCHELL. I think the duty has been collected up to the present time.

The CHAIRMAN. On a portion?

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Was it collected on all up to a certain time?

Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been asking Congress for this duty?

Mr. MITCHELL. During the last Congress, I think, Mr. Shartel introduced the bill. It was when Mr. Shartel was in Congress.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you a statement showing the cost of production in Mexico, including the labor and the freight to the smelter? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir: that is included in an exhibit in my brief. The CHAIRMAN. And does that also give the cost of production in Missouri?

Mr. MITCHELL. In Missouri there is quite a number of small miners, different individual mine owners. We have some 500 or 600 producing mines there, when they are all running, and I presume that over 973 per cent of them are owned by individuals.

The CHAIRMAN. It is true that zine ore is found in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin, as well as in Missouri? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know how much of the ore is mined in each of those States?

Mr. MITCHELL. There are very large mines in New Jersey, producing 368,000 tons a year, but that is not used for smelter purposes; it is turned into zinc oxide.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand. you think that zinc ore requires the same protection as lead ore?

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir; we are asking that.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, the lead ore has not been fixed at 11 cents yet.

Mr. MITCHELL. I understand that.

The CHAIRMAN. You think the relations are about the same?

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLARK. If they had the New Jersey mines down in Joplin nobody would work them. They are not rich enough to be compared with the Joplin mines?

Mr. MITCHELL. They produce an entirely different kind of ore, and they turn that ore into zinc oxide.

Mr. CLARK. But you did not go to New Jersey and go into the same business, did you?

Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir.

(The brief submitted by Mr. Mitchell follows:)



To the honorable chairman and Committee on Ways and Means:

The following statement of facts and argument in favor of a specific duty on all imported zinc ores is made in behalf of the zincmine operators and zinc miners of the Missouri-Kansas or Ozark district. This includes the areas of Jasper, Lawrence, and Newton counties, Mo.; southeastern Kansas, northeastern Oklahoma, and northwestern Arkansas.

The Joplin district folio, No. 148, issued by the United States Geological Survey in 1907, states that the Joplin district is of the average length from east to west about 27 miles, and the width from north to south is 17 miles, and that the area of the district is about 476 square miles. It is safe to say that all the other camps of the Ozark district in addition will more than double this area.

In 1850 lead ore was discovered at Granby, Newton County, Mo., and has been mined there since that date. Zinc ore was found with the lead ore, but was cast aside as valueless.

Missouri Geological Survey, Volume VI (published in 1894), at pages 7 and 8 of preface, declares that the mining of zinc ore in the Ozark district began about 1874; that the production grew rapidly from the beginning; that the total output then nearly equaled the combined total productions of all other States in the Union, amounting to about 1,200,000 tons of zinc ore, equivalent to nearly 500,000 tons of metal, of the value of $50,000,000. The annual production of zinc ore then was considerably over 100,000 tons.

In advance sheets from Volume X, Missouri Bureau of Geology and Mines, by Dr. E. R. Buckley, director and state geologist (published November 1, 1907), at page 3, it is said:

The world's production of spelter in 1906 amounted to 775,871 tons; of this amount the United States produced 224,770 tons, or 29 per cent of the total. Of the total production in the United States the Ozark region, comprising parts of Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, and Indian Territory, furnished 136,051 tons, or 60.6 per cent. Missouri alone produced 58 per cent, or nearly 17 per cent of the world's output.

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