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Rogers said that the government could not find money, unless some one would take their bills, and then they might do so ? A. I no not know, sir.
Q. What month ? A. I have not got the dates, and cannot remember.
Q. Who was present at that time ? A. I think on one occasion, Wright was present.
Q. Where was McNichols ? A. I never met Mr. Rogers with McNichols.
Q. Or Conkling? A. I never was present with Rogers and Conkling.
Q. Or Byron ? A. Yes, sir, once.
Q. At that time was anything said by anybody about its being possible to get the bills taken? A. No.
Q. Did you not understand that put an end to the expectations to be able to buy the ship? A. No, sir? I did not understand it
Q. Did you not understand that, unless some capitalist would come in and take the bills, it would put an end to the business ; that that was what they looked out for, to see if some one would put in money ; - and without that, the thing must come to an end ? A. I do not know that at any time they were discouraged about getting money; all the time they were expecting money from England, and expecting to get some drafts cashed here.
Q. Did it not all depend upon whether they could get drafts cashed ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you remember if that was as early as the middle of December ? A. As early as that; but I cannot remember the different times ; it was spoken of often.
Q. You cannot fix the date in any way? A. No, sir ; I cannot fix the date.
Q. You have said the Williams you knew is the commander of the Esmaralda ? A. The Williams we spoke of.
Q. Was anything said about his being commander of the Esmaralda ? A. Not that I now remember.
Q. How do you know this is the Williams that Rogers spoke of at that time ? A. Because in different conversations with Rogers, we spoke of this Williams in his fight with the Esmaralda and Corvadonga when the Corvadonga was captured.
Q. Did you know this Williams personally ? A. No, sir.
Q. And all you know about him is what you have seen in the newspapers ? A. That is all.
Q. What led to your taking an introduction from Rogers to Mackenna ? A. I believe I asked him. Q. What led you to ask him ? was it not because you
found nothing could be done with Rogers, — that Rogers gave you to understand there was not any money, and they could not do anything? A. I think Mr. Rogers did give me that impression, but not at that time, I think he did at different times.
Q. Before you went to Mackenna ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you not ask for an introduction to Mackenna to see whether you could do anything better with Mackenna than Rogers seemed to be able ? A. I think that was my motive; I have an impression that was my object.
Q. Rogers had told you this special envoy or ambassador was coming for this purpose before that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had Rogers told you they expected a loan, or money from England ? A. I did not say a loan, but it was the same thing.
Q. In regard to Captain Williams, I understood you to say, Rogers told you it was the same Williams that was captain of the Esmaralda, in the fight down there ? A. I did not say so; he said Captain Williams, but I do not remember he said it was the Williams in command of the Esmaralda ; although I understood it, he may not have said it.
Q. You understood it so, but you do not remember whether he said so, or not? A. No, sir ; there were a great many things I talked of.
Q. Was the Captain Williams you talked of a captain in the Chilian navy? A. Yes, I understood him to be.
Q. The Counsel has asked you about the condition of this vessel, as an armed vessel. You say you examined her pretty carefully, state whether or not she was fitted out and prepared for war purposes, from the examination you made of her.
Objected to as leading and calling for what the Court is to de cide. Admitted provisionally. Exception by claimants.
A. She is pierced for guns, - four on a side, I think; three or four on a side ; — with one long fore-and-aft port amid ships for a pivot gun.
Q. That is what you mean by partially? A. That is about all I know of on board that ship, that you could really say was fitted for war purposes; the balance you might see on board of
Q. Would there be any difficulty, in your opinion, in fitting up that vessel at Montevideo or Valparaiso, if she had been transferred there from New York ?
Objected to; waived.
Q. Were you in command of the Ella and Anna, at the time of the capture of the Chesapeake ? A. Yes, sir.
Adjourned to 12 o'clock, to-morrow.
SEVENTH DAY, FRIDAY, April 6.
TESTIMONY OF GEORGE M. RAMSAY.
George M. Ramsay was called by the Government, and sworn.
Q. Where do you reside ? A. 117 Waverly Place, in this city.
Q. Do you know Benjamin Vicuna Mackenna ? A. I met him on one occasion.
Q. Have you seen him in court, here ? A. Not in this room ; I did in the other room.
Q. Do you know Stephen Rogers ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Look at this paper, and state whether or not 'you saw Mackenna sign it? A. I did.
Q. Look at the signature lower down. Do you know that ? A. Yes; that is Mackenna's also.
Q. Look at the name “Stephen Rogers ”; did you see him sign that? A. No, I did not see him sign that.
Q. Was it signed in your presence ? A. No, sir.
District Attorney offers the papers in evidence, for the purpose of showing the agency of Mackenna, and the nature of his business here, to wit: for the purpose of preparing and fitting out vessels of various kinds, including torpedo boats, in behalf of Chile.
Mr. Evarts objects, on the ground that it is immaterial on any issue in this case, to prove that Mackenna made a contract with
any one else.
Paper admitted in evidence and marked Exhibit L.
Q. Who delivered that paper to you? A. I received the contract myself at the time Mackenna signed the paper; the certificate I attached myself.
Q. Whom did you get that from ? A. I do not know whether I got it from Dr. Rogers or Colonel Perry; my impression is that I got it from Colonel Perry; I would not swear to it.
Q. Did you ever see Rogers write ? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you have any talk with Rogers after you received this paper ? A. I think I saw him frequently after that.
Q. What was your conversation with him after that? A. A great many things.
Q. Was it in regard to this contract ? A. We talked something of it.
Q. Did you have any talk with Rogers in regard to this certificate ? A. I did, before he gave it; that is, before I received it.
Q. I mean in regard to his giving the certificate ? A. Yes; I think that is provided for in the contract, that something similar to that should be given.
Q. And after you had that conversation you received this certificate ? A. Yes, sir.
Counsel for the Government reads a notice to counsel for claimants to " produce all books of account of R. B. Forbes, or J. M. Forbes, or J. M. Forbes & Co., having entries in relation to the ownership and expense chargeable against the steamship Meteor, and also all letters written by or received by R. B. Forbes, or J. M. Forbes, or J. M. Forbes & Co., or any other persons having interest in said steamship in relation to her building, equipment, chartering sale or disposal.” Marked Ex. M.
Counsel for the claimants admit the service of notice, but answer, that they produce nothing.
The District Attorney reserves his right to make such motion as he may deem proper under the notice.
The Government calls Leonard W. Jerome, who does not appear; an attachment is issued, and the officer returns he cannot find him.
The Court adjourns to the next day at 11 o'clock, to examine Mr. Jerome.
Eighth Day, SATURDAY, April 7th.
TESTIMONY OF L. W. JEROME.
Leonard W. Jerome was called by the Government, and his excuse, that his absence on Friday was involuntary and accidental, having been accepted, he was sworn.
Q. Have you ever been on board the Meteor ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When were you on board of her last ? A. I was never on board but once.
Q. When was that? A. Some four or five months ago.
Q. In whose company were you at that time? A. Mr. Asta Buriaga, the Chilian Minister, I think no one else.
Q. Was Mr. R. B. Forbes along at that time? A. I think not.
Q. What is your best impression ? A. My best impression is that he was not; I am quite sure he was not.
Q. Where was the vessel lying at that time? A. At Jersey City.
Q. Did you and the Chilian Minister go together to visit her? A. No, I think not; I think I met him there.
Q. By agreement? A. Yes.
Q. What was the agreement you made with him by which you met him there ? A. I asked him to look at the ship.
Q. For what purpose ? A. To see if he would buy her.
Q. Did you and he examine the ship together on that occasion ? A. We went through her partially, not much.
Q. Did you ever exhibit the vessel to any other person besides Asta Buriaga, in behalf of the Chilian government? A. No, sir ; I never was on board of her but once.
Q. Do you know Mackenna ? A. I have been introduced to him.
Q. When ? A. I have no recollection of the time, except that it was two or three months later than that.
Q. Where ? A. At my office.