Q. Anything specially besides that?-A. No, sir; nothing more than what was heard by everybody on the streets. No one ever suggested anything to me about attempting to influence the jury in any way, shape, or manner.

Q. Do you know whether any of the papers in relation to the starroute trial, while in the custody of Colonel Cook, reached the possession of any of the defendants or their friends?-A. Not to my knowledge; but that question gives me opportunity to say something in relation to what I have seen insinuated here in the testimony of some of the witnesses who have testified before this committee to the effect that the defendants got papers and information in relation to the cases through me out of Colonel Cook. I want to enter the most positive denial of that. I never saw a paper, or copy of a paper, relating to these star-route cases, any of them, whether they were those connected with the indictment or otherwise, until I saw them at the trial table on the trial of that case. I never saw any any place else. If Colonel Cook ever had any in his possession, I never saw them. I do not know whether he ever did or not. I never received any information from him in relation to the facts in the cases at all in one way or the other. I never asked him for any and he never volunteered any.

Q. Was ever any fee or money received by you, directly or indirectly, from persons who had contracts in the star-route service, divided with Colonel Cook in your settlement with him?—A. No, sir.

Q. Or in any way accounted for to him?-A. No, sir; the only money I ever have received from any of those men who were connected with the star-route matters was that I received from Rerdell and Dr. Colegrove. Mr. Cook never received, directly or indirectly, in any way, shape, or manner, the benefit of a cent of that money.

Q. In either case?-A. In either case.

Q. Or in any other case?-A. No, sir; it was my own, under our arrangement, and there was no reason why he should have a cent of it, and he never did have.

Q. And the star-route defendants, I understand you to say, received no papers through you out of his office at any time?-A. No, sir; they never received any papers from me relating to those cases. I never had one in my possession, either an original or a copy, except as I took it in my hands as I was sitting at the trial table and examined it.

Q. Did you render ex-Senator Dorsey any service during this time. from the fact that you knew that he was furnishing Rerdell the money with which he was making his defense?-A. No, sir; I never rendered ex-Senator Dorsey any service of any kind or character in these or any other cases, nor any other man who was indicted except Rerdell.

Q. Were you engaged in the defense of the Kellogg case?-A. No, sir. Q. Was Colonel Cook, do you know?-A. No, sir; he was not to my knowledge. I know before Colonel Cook was Government counsel in these star-route cases, that he was Senator Kellogg's counsel generally, and did all his business for him pretty much, except in his election contest here, when I think Shellabarger & Wilson represented him. I will add that after Colonel Cook had been in these star-route cases, and Mr. Kellogg was indicted, while I of course cannot say positively that that is the fact, my decided belief is that he was not retained by Mr. Kellogg in that indictment at all. Of course it might have been done without my knowing it, but my understanding was that he was not his counsel in that case.

Q. Were you informed that Colonel Cook was offered a large retainer

to act in behalf of the defendants in the star-route cases?-A. I was so informed; I do not know anything about it.

Q. So informed by him or other parties?-A. I am not certain whether Colonel Cook ever informed me that he was offered a large retainer by them prior to being engaged by the Government or not, but I know that several other parties told me that Colonel Cook had been offered a very large retainer after they learned that he was about to be employed by the Government, if he would reject the offer of the Government and take their cases. Colonel Cook may have said that to me himself, but I will not say that he did. I have no present recollection that he did tell me so, but I heard it from other sources.

The committee then adjourned until Saturday morning, June 7, 1884, at 10 o'clock a. m.

WASHINGTON, D. C., June 9, 1884.

CHARLES D. COLMAN Sworn and examined.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Please state your age, residence, and occupation.-Answer. I am sixty-seven years of age; my occupation is that of an attorney and counselor at law, and my residence at present is Plymouth, Mich. I came to Washington upon a telegram from this committee.

Q. Were you at any time attorney for Dr. Colegrove?-A. I have been his attorney, but not recently.

Q. When were you his attorney?-A. A good many years ago I was, when we, both of us, lived in Saint Louis. But I acted as a friend of his in a matter here.

Q. State what that matter was, and in what capacity you acted; what was done. First, I believe he was a contractor in the star-route mail service, was he not?-A. He was said to be a contractor; I understood so from him, and I understood so otherwise, that he was a contractor in the mail service.

Q. He was one of the persons about whom there was a probability of an indictment being found, was he not?-A. Well, there was some apprehension of that kind, that he might perhaps be proceeded against, and he desired to avoid that, and came to me as an old acquaintance and friend, and I interceded for him.

Q. State what you did in that way, and what he did.-A. I went to Mr. C. C. Cole and desired him to see what he could do.

By Mr. VAN ALSTYNE:

Q. Mr. Cole is an attorney-at-law ?-A. Yes, sir; he is an attorneyat-law in this city, and was the law partner of William A. Cook, whom I knew at the time was engaged as counsel for the Government in the prosecution of these cases. I went to him for reasons which I thought would be effective.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. What were those reasons?-A. I thought Mr. Cole might influence Mr. Cook.

By Mr. FYAN:

Q. To prevent the indictment?-A. Yes, sir; prevent the indictment. By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. State what you did in the premises.-A. In the first place, Dr.

Colegrove came to me, as I have before stated, as a friend, and wanted to know if I could do anything for him, and I told him I thought I could; that I knew Mr. Cole, and knew that he was an associate of Colonel Cook's, and that I thought that I could aid him, but that it would require money, probably. I went to Mr. Cole and conferred with him upon the subject. He told me that he thought he could aid him, and I saw him go from the room in which we were into the adjoining room and have a conference with Mr. Cook. He came back and informed me that he would be able to help the doctor, and that he would want, in the first place, so much money-$500 was the amount first spoken of, but he afterwards got, I think, more than that; I think he got $750. By Mr. VAN ALSTYNE:

Q. In addition, or all told?-A. All told, so far as I know.

By Mr. FYAN:

Q. Who paid him this money?-A. Dr. Colegrove, as I learned from both of them. I did not see the payment, as I recollect.

Q. Mr. Cole told you that he got that money?-A. Yes, sir; Mr. Cole told me that he got that money, and he also told me that he divided with Mr. Cook.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. What time was this; can you give the date of it?-A. I cannot precisely, but it was just about the time these indictments were being predicted.

Q. Was it at the time when Mr. Cook was in the Government service? -A. Yes, sir; it was at the time when Mr. Cook was in the Government service.

By Mr. VAN ALSTYNE:

Q. It was previous to the death of President Garfield, was it?-A. It was previous to the death of President Garfield. I know Colonel Cook went to New York, for he told me he was going there; it was during President Garfield's sickness at Elberon.

Q. He told you that during this interview?-A. I had several interviews. There is a man named Moore whom I think you gentlemen ought to get hold of. He was a confidential man, I apprehend, of William A. Cook's.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. What is his first name?-A. I cannot tell. He was a detective, and is an employé now in the Government service somewhere, so I am told. I know that he and Colonel Cook went off together.

Q. Where?-A. To New York, and I think to Elberon. I know they started to go. Of course, I did not see them go, but I understood they

went.

Q. When do you say that Dr. Colegrove called upon you, having refreshed your memory ?-A. I think it must have been before the death of President Garfield that he called upon me; I am very firmly convinced of that.

By Mr. FYAN :

Q. When was the money paid?-A. Five hundred dollars of it was paid at once. I know that Mr. Cole told me that he let Colonel Cook have $250 out of that $500 when Colonel Cook was going to New

York.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. And that was before President Garfield died?-A. That was before President Garfield's death, according to my recollection, but after his assassination-after his wound.

Q. It was in the summer, then?-A. Yes, sir; it was in the summer of 1881, after the 2d of July. I know that on the 2d day of July, the day of his assassination, I was at Parkersburg, W. Va., attending the Federal court there when the news came, and of course it was a matter of astonishment to us all. I am not entirely certain whether Dr. Colegrove ever spoke to me before President Garfield's assassination or not; but I know it was during President Garfield's sickness that some of these matters transpired.

By Mr. FYAN:

Q. You went to Mr. Cole because he was a partner of Colonel Cook's? -A. I cannot help but say that, gentlemen.

Q. And at that time you knew that Colonel Cook was in the Government service?-A. I knew that Colonel Cook was in the Government service.

By the CHAIRMAN :

Q. And Mr. Cole went from your presence into the room where Colonel Cook was, and asked him about it?-A. Yes, sir; and came back and reported to me.

Q. Did he state how much he desired to be paid down, and what would be paid thereafter?-A. He demanded then $500.

Q. Did he say then that he had to divide part of it with Colonel Cook-A. I cannot say that he said at that time that he had to divide with Colonel Cook, but he said that he had to use money other ways than what he would retain himself. But he subsequently told me

Q. (Interposing.) When did he subsequently tell you?-A. During that summer and fall certainly, because I had a good many interviews. I was here at that time, and I had interviews with him almost daily.

Q. What did he tell you?-A. That he had to divide with Colonel Cook, and that he had paid Colonel Cook money, a part of that received from Dr. Colegrove. I think he told me that he paid more than half. Q. What did Dr. Colegrove tell you about it?-A. I do not think Dr. Colegrove ever told me anything about how the money was divided. I have no recollection of his ever having told me so. I saw Dr. Colegrove there at the office several times. He went there with me at first, and then afterwards I met him there, sometimes by appointment and sometimes accidentally.

Q. Do you know whether Dr. Colegrove was indicted or not?-A. He was not indicted, as I understand, and I do not believe he ought to have been. If I had supposed he deserved indictment I would not have interceded for him.

Q. He told you that he was a contractor, did he?-A. Yes, sir; he told me that he was a contractor, and he told me that he did not want the notoriety of an indictment, and would rather give something than to have the notoriety of it, although he said he could defend himself successfully. I had known him a good many years. We occupied an office together in Saint Louis for a year and a half or two years, and I suppose it was for that reason that he came to me, probably.

Q. Do you know what routes he was interested in?—A. I do not; I never inquired into that matter.

Q. Did he tell you?-A. I do not think he did. He may have told

Colegrove came to me, as I have before stated, as a friend, and wanted to know if I could do anything for him, and I told him I thought I could; that I knew Mr. Cole, and knew that he was an associate of Colonel Cook's, and that I thought that I could aid him, but that it would require money, probably. I went to Mr. Cole and conferred with him upon the subject. He told me that he thought he could aid him, and I saw him go from the room in which we were into the adjoining room and have a conference with Mr. Cook. He came back and informed me that he would be able to help the doctor, and that he would want, in the first place, so much money-$500 was the amount first spoken of, but he afterwards got, I think, more than that; I think he got $750.

By Mr. VAN ALSTYNE:

Q. In addition, or all told?-A. All told, so far as I know.

By Mr. FYAN:

Q. Who paid him this money?-A. Dr. Colegrove, as I learned from both of them. I did not see the payment, as I recollect.

Q. Mr. Cole told you that he got that money?-A. Yes, sir; Mr. Cole told me that he got that money, and he also told me that he divided with Mr. Cook.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. What time was this; can you give the date of it?-A. I cannot precisely, but it was just about the time these indictments were being predicted.

Q. Was it at the time when Mr. Cook was in the Government service? -A. Yes, sir; it was at the time when Mr. Cook was in the Government service.

By Mr. VAN ALSTYNE:

Q. It was previous to the death of President Garfield, was it?—A. It was previous to the death of President Garfield. I know Colonel Cook went to New York, for he told me he was going there; it was during President Garfield's sickness at Elberon.

Q. He told you that during this interview?-A. I had several interviews. There is a man named Moore whom I think you gentlemen ought to get hold of. He was a confidential man, I apprehend, of William A. Cook's.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. What is his first name?-A. I cannot tell. He was a detective, and is an employé now in the Government service somewhere, so I am told. I know that he and Colonel Cook went off together.

Q. Where?-A. To New York, and I think to Elberon. I know they started to go. Of course, I did not see them go, but I understood they went.

Q. When do you say that Dr. Colegrove called upon you, having refreshed your memory?-A. I think it must have been before the death of President Garfield that he called upon me; I am very firmly convinced of that.

By Mr. FYAN:

Q. When was the money paid?-A. Five hundred dollars of it was paid at once. I know that Mr. Cole told me that he let Colonel Cook have $250 out of that $500 when Colonel Cook was going to New York.