Q. During the time that he was in office, while you were holding the office of district attorney, did you see anything in the manner in which he administered the duties of the marshal's office to lead you to think that there was anything wrong in his accounts?-A. I did not.

Q. Did you at any time previous to the publication of the charges made by Mr. Brown, suspect that he was in any way short in his accounts?—A. I did not, sir.

Q. What was his manner of living?-A. Well, sir, I scarcely know. He boarded somewhere in the city. His family lived over in Little Washington, the county-seat of Washington County, about 30 miles from Pittsburgh; I do not know where in Pittsburgh he boarded. I never was at his boarding place in my life.

Q. I am not asking as to that. You understand what I mean. What I want to know is whether his manner of living indicated extravagance and large expenditures, or whether it was economical, indicating that he lived within his means derived from the legitimate returns of his office?-A. Well, sir, his manner of living, so far as I observed it, was an ordinary one, and nothing occurred to lead me to think that he was living outside of his means.

Q. What is Mr. Hall's present condition physically; is he in good health-A. I have not seen him for months. I believed him to be in good health; but I do not know anything about it. He may or he may not be so; I have not heard anything about him as to health for some time.

Q. There was some testimony here to the effect that last fall he was in a very critical condition, and that was given as a reason for not press ing the matter of a settlement of his accounts, and I did not know but you knew something of his actual physical condition.-A. Well, sir, I did hear that he was not very well, or that he was unwell, but for the last several months I have not heard anything on the subject. I think that possibly he may have been ill last fall. I do not now remember. I remember something about his being sick after these charges by Brown were made public; I heard he was sick some time last year, but I do not know when it was.

Q. Do you know what his financial condition is?-A. I do not. I know nothing whatever about it.

Q. Were you district attorney when Mr. Ballin was up there to examine Marshal Hall's accounts?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did Mr. Ballin call your attention to the investigation he had made-A. Mr. Ballin came to me and told me what he was doing there; he told me he was there to investigate Mr. Hall's accounts. He did not submit to me the result of any of his investigations.

Q. Before he left did he tell you anything about the condition of the marshal's office?-A. Yes, sir; I think he did. I think he said to me in substance that he found things looking bad; that he could not tell definitely until he had time to figure them up, but that he believed there would be a balance against Marshal Hall.

Q. Did he state how much he thought it would be?—A. I don't think he did, sir.

Q. He did not seem to know then, at the time he left Pittsburgh, how much the balance would be, until he could have an opportunity to compute it?-A. That is the impression that he left upon me by what he said. I cannot remember what he said.

Q. Have you had any instructions from the Department of Justice since Mr. Ballin left Pittsburgh, with regard to any steps to be taken to

secure the Government in any amount that might be found due from Marshal Hall?-A. I have not.

Q. Or any instructions as to whether he should be prosecuted for rendering false accounts?-A. None, sir.

Q. Is it your duty to bring those matters to the attention of the grand jury without awaiting instructions from the Department?-A. Well, I hardly know, but I should think it my duty to do so until I had the benefit of the result of the investigations already made.

Q. That you have not had?-A. I have not, sir.

Q. Do you know who were on Marshal Hall's bonds?-A. I do not, but my understanding is that his bondsmen are regarded good and sufficient. That is the understanding I have. I have heard it so stated by somebody whose name I do not remember now.

Q. Does the district attorney approve or does the court approve of those bonds?—A. I think so. I will not be sure. I did not approve this one, I know, because it was made long before my appointment, but I understand the district attorney and the judge do approve them. Q. Do you desire to make any further statement with regard to the necessity for a second assistant attorney in your district ?-A. Yes; I wish to say this, that in a number of districts throughout the country the assistant attorneys do not live at the point where the judge and the district attorney live; that there is precedent for an assistant living outside of the principal place where the courts are held in the district; and that there are a number of districts which are not as large as mine, where the United States attorneys have more assistants, and pay them more money than I pay mine.

Q. During the time that you have been district attorney, have you transacted any law business on your own private account?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you keep an office in Pittsburgh?-A. Yes, sir; I had an office when I was appointed, and I still keep one.

Q. How much of your time can you give to the transaction of private business without interfering with the discharge of the duties of your office?-A. Well, I cannot say how much of it—that is, I cannot divide it. I have some practice, but it does not occupy near so much of my time as the business of the Government occupies. I never transact any private business when there is any Government business to be done, and I am always every day of my life in the United States attorney's office most of the time.

Q. How long do you say that you have been in office as United States attorney?-A. I have been in office practically since about the first of July, 1880.

Q. Nearly four years?-A. Nearly four years.

Q. During that time what has been the average amount of your receipts from private sources in the practice of the law?-A. I cannot tell you-that is, I do not know. When I was appointed, I had some unfinished business which was in process of adjustment, and a large portion of my receipts since that time has been derived from that business which was pending at the date of my appointment. I do not know just what my receipts have been.

Q. Can you estimate the amount?-A. I could if I should go home and take time to figure it up, but I would dislike to guess at it, and it would be no more than a guess if I should undertake to state it here. I do not know what the amount has been. I know, however, that it has not been so large as my receipts from the Government, but I keep no books in my office, and

Q. What have been your receipts from the Government business dur

ing your term?-A. I cannot answer that, either, without referring to my accounts, which are on file in the Attorney-General's office. I can state, however, that the office has never yet paid me the maximum of $6,000.

Q. We have received from the Secretary of the Treasury a statement of the returns of the district attorneys in the different districts, including the western district of Pennsylvania, and it seems, from that statement, that you have never earned the maximum in that district ?—A. (Referring to the statement.) No, sir; it seems not.

Q. Are the amounts stated there those which you have returned ?— A. I suppose so, if these amounts are taken from the return.

Q. I had supposed that your office had earned the maximum, but it appears from this that it has not?-A. Well, you know that the fees of district attorneys are largely fixed by the judges. The report to the Secretary of the Treasury does not indicate the amount of business transacted or the amounts earned. You understand, I suppose, how the compensation of district attorneys is fixed?

Q. It is fixed by law, I suppose, and ought to be the same in every district for the same service? A. But it is not. For instance, wherever there is a verdict in a case for the Government the judge may award to the district attorney an amount not to exceed $30.

Q. Do you mean in other than criminal cases?-A. No; only in criminal cases.

Q. There is a docket fee of $20 fixed by law, is there not?-A. There is a docket fee of $20 fixed by law, but where there is a verdict for the Government, the judge may award in addition to that a sum not to exceed $30.

Q. To be taxed as costs?-A. No, sir; to be charged in the attorney's account and paid by the Government.

Q. Is that in addition to the $20?-A. Yes, sir. Now judges differ in regard to those awards. Therefore, one district attorney might be trying a great many more cases than another, and might yet get a great deal less money.

WASHINGTON, May 16, 1884.

T. C. KNOX Sworn and examined.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Please state your age, residence, and occupation.-Answer. My age is 31; I am an attorney-at-law.

Q. You reside in the western district of Pennsylvania?-A. Yes, sir. Q. How long have you resided in that district?-A. All my life. Q. How long have you been engaged in the practice of the law ?—A. About ten years.

Q. Have you heard the testimony of Mr. Stone as to the business of the office of the United States district attorney in the western district of Pennsylvania?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What do you say as to the amount of business transacted there, and the necessity for the service of two assistants to the district attor ney?-A. I have no knowledge as to the amount of business transacted since the time when I was an assistant, except from the statement of Mr. Stone.

Q. Do you hold any public office now?-A. I do not.

Q. Were you an assistant attorney in that district?—A. I was assistant United States attorney from March, 1875, until June or July, 1876.

Q. You were second assistant?-A. There was no distinction made then. Mr. Wilson and I were appointed assistants, without any distinction as to our rank, and we "pooled" the income of the officedivided it equally. Mr. Wilson nominally drew a larger salary than I did, but we made an equal division.

Q. In what way were you paid?-A. By the Government.

Q. By fees, or by salaries?—A. We were paid salaries. I think our salaries aggregated $3,200. He drew $2,000 and I drew $1,200. I am not certain about the figures, but that is my recollection.

By Mr. STONE:

Q. Do you regard two assistants as necessary to the proper transaction of the business of the office of the United States attorney in that district?-A. Well, I know that when I was there it took all of my time and all of Mr. Wilson's time, and I know that Mr. Reed, who was then United States attorney, gave very close attention to the office; and, in addition to that, Mr. Wilson and I paid out of our salaries for the services of Mr. Thomas A. Pender in outside work. At that time, therefore, there were practically three assistants in the office, and it kept us all busy, and the reason I resigned in 1876 was because I had private business offered me which I could not attend to on account of the duties of the office.

Q. From your knowledge of that district and of the business of the courts there, what is your judgment as to the number of assistants required?-A. Well, I think the interests of the United States could not be properly attended to there with a less force in the district attorney's office than there is now and has been always since I have had knowledge of it.

Q. State whether there is a good deal of business transacted in the United States courts there, and whether there is a good deal of litigation in that district?-A. There was when I was in the office, and I have been constantly about the United States court since, and I have a good deal of practice there, and I do not notice any diminution in the volume of business on the part of the Government.

Q. You have tried cases there since I have been United States attorney?-A. Yes, sir; frequently.

Q. Please tell the committee how the business is conducted before the grand jury and the traverse jury by the district attorney and his assistants-how we do the business, and how it has been done to your knowledge.-A. Well, the way we did it when I was there was this: Mr. Wilson would take the grand jury at one term of the court, and I would assist in trying the causes, and then we would reverse that at the next term of court. I found it just as difficult to try cases before a United States grand jury as before a traverse jury, because the United States grand juries are composed of men of superior intelligence, and an ordinary prima facie case would not always work with them, and we would have to study up our cases for them just about as thoroughly as for the traverse juries.

WASHINGTON, May 16, 1884.

E. A. MONTOOTH, sworn and examined.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Please state your age, residence, and occupation.-Answer. I am 46 years of age; I reside in Pittsburgh, Pa.; I am an attor ney-at-law.

Q. How long have you been in practice?-A. Since 1861. I have been in active practice since the close of the war.

Q. Have you had any official connection with the Government?-A. No, sir; I have occupied the position of district attorney of Allegheny County; but that, of course, is not a position under the General Government.

Q. Have you heard the testimony of Mr. Stone and of Mr. Knox here, this morning, in regard to the business of the district attorney's office in the western district of Pennsylvania?-A. I heard a portion of Mr. Stone's testimony, but not all of it. Part of the time I was reading some of the evidence already given before this committee. I heard Mr. Knox's testimony, though.

Q. State what you know in regard to the amount of business in that district and the necessity for assistants in the office of the district attorney-A. I try a great many cases in the United States court, the criminal branch of it, and in my business there since Colonel Stone has been United States district attorney I have very rarely found him absent-no more so than possibly you or I would be. I have always sound him giving strict attention to the business of his office. I never attend the sessions of the court in Erie or Williamsport, and, therefore I do not know what the third assistant, Mr. Cameron, does there, or what necessity there may be there for his services, but I have no recollection of his ever being absent from any session of the court fn Allegheny County or in the city of Pittsburgh.

Q. He has always attended there, then ?-A. I may say always. I have not had any occasion to examine the matter critically, but I have no recollection of his ever having been absent from any session of the court there. Possibly, however, he may have been without my recollecting it.

Mr. STONE. He has never been absent from any court except the Erie court.

The WITNESs. I find Mr. Cameron and Mr. Wilson and Mr. Stone all three engaged in attending to the business of the district attorney's office during the sessions of the court.

By Mr. STONE:

Q. State whether you have had a large experience in the prosecution of criminal cases there.

The WITNESS. Do you mean in the United States courts, or gen erally?

Mr. STONE. In the United States court and generally.

The WITNESS. Generally I have had, I presume, as large an experience as any person in Allegheny County.

Q. State whether you are not constantly trying cases throughout the year?-A. I am, save during the summer vacation.

Q. Do you not try cases at every term of the United States court that is held at Pittsburgh ?-A. Very nearly every term.

Q. You know something of the magnitude of the western district of Pennsylvania?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. And of the character of the country it embraces and of the business of the people?—Yes.

Q. What is your judgment as to the amount of force that is necessary in the district attorney's office for the proper transaction of the business of the Government in that district?-A. I believe that one assistant is necessary constantly in the city of Pittsburgh. From what I know of the outside regions and the business there, I presume that it