say, oh, maybe there is something besides Carter Lake or Mount Hood to see in the Northwest. I think there is no higher development from an economic development point of view for land use for the gorge than to develop the scenic and recreational potential here. I think that it's going to take the help of the Federal Government to do that. From a State perspective, we don't have any single agency that is capable of dealing with the multitude of jurisdictions we have in the gorge. We're in a position where we've had trouble, as you know, recently even accepting land donations on the gorge. We don't have the budget to come in and buy the scenic vistas. We've got the problem where I think the Puget Sound is going to take all the resources the State has to look at this year. I would urge you to look at the question, Senator Evans, reasonably and to get some Federal involvement in protecting the gorge. Thank you, very much. Senator EVANS. I understand that there are representatives here for Representative Heck and Representative Sutherland. Gloria DeGroot for Representative Dennis Heck. STATEMENT OF HON. DENNIS HECK, MEMBER, WASHINGTON HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, AS PRESENTED BY GLORIA DeGROOT Ms. DEGROOT. Hon. Senator Dan Evans, ladies and gentlemen. Unfortunately, a longstanding prior commitment prevents my being at today's hearing. Therefore, I have asked that the following statement be presented on my behalf. Going as far back as 1981 in hearings held by the Governor's Select Committee on the Columbia River Gorge, a preponderance of testimony by area residents opposed Federal management of the gorge. Through the intervening years of ongoing discussion in the district before public officials at various levels of government, the response has been the same. In private communications to me from constituents, likewise the message has primarily been control, Federal control. The issue was subsequently brought before the Washington State Legislature for debate in 1983 through measures introduced jointly in the House where I was a cosponsor with Representative Sutherland. The legislation sought restraint of further Federal control over non-Federal lands in the gorge. It was supported and successfully passed by an overwhelming margin in both houses. Nothing in the area has changed since then to fundamentally alter my position. Therefore, I go on record reaffirming my support for the will of the citizens in the Columbia River gorge area and the people of this State through their elected state representatives. They have declared that the Federal Government should not play a dominant land use management authority role in the Columbia River gorge and I concur. Senator EVANS. Next, Pearl Neely representing Representative Sutherland. STATEMENT OF HON. DEAN SUTHERLAND, MEMBER, WASHINGTON HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, AS PRESENTED BY PEARL NEELY Ms. NEELY. Hon. Senator Evans, ladies and gentlemen, I have the testimony of Representative Dean Sutherland. It reads: Since I am unable to attend today's hearing, I ask the following testimony be submitted in my name. As one who represents the area, it has been clear to me that although there are differences on the question of gorge management, the majority of the people in my district favor no further involvement by the Federal Government in the Columbia River gorge. The majority of letters, telephone calls, public testimony, and results of polls in the area have expressed little support for Federal mangement of the gorge. The people have spoken over and over again and the Washington State Legislature spoke through the memorial it sent to Congress in 1983, Joint Memorial 110, a companion of the measure I cosponsored in the House asking for a halt to the legislation imposing Federal control over the gorge. In spite of this message, the question has not been laid to rest, and by the very length of time it has been pending it has exerted a kind of amorphous Federal control over the gorge. I now urge that Congress honor that message and let the residents get on with their lives and back to handling their own problems. Submitted by Dean Sutherland, State representative. A question or two. Senator Zimmerman, you mentioned action by county commissioners to assure everyone they can deal wih land use questions in a manner compatible with environmental, economic and recreational balance, probably through a land use zoning plan. Do you feel that currently the countries involved in the gorge at least on the Washingon side, I wouldn't presume you would know precisely on the Oregon side-do not have adequate land use plans that reflect these balances? Senator ZIMMERMAN. I think Clark and Klickitat have. At this point, Skamania County has a comprehensive plan, but as yet has not impemented what would be I think more adequate and more complete land use zoning arrangements. I think that they have some work to do. But I do think they are prepared, and are more prepared to do it than they have been. Senator EVANS. You're suggesting that would be a necessary alternative or certainly a preferred alternative to a Federal land use plan? Senator ZIMMERMAN. I think that we've said since local level decisions are best, and are all in general agreement, that there is logic to that. We know that we can't supersede or preempt, as I indicated, the Federal, level and we're not presuming that. But I think the local effort has in the past done its job, and it should at least be given a little more opportunity, although recognizing there's certainly pressure on from outside elements. But they have done a pretty good job. The present gorge is still a pretty neat place. Senator EVANS. Do you feel that the Washington State Shorelines Management Act—and it only governs, of course, the very narrow strip along the river-has done an adequate job for that particular stretch of land? Senator ZIMMERMAN. I think it has been the most exemplary effort in terms of land use in the State, and I think it's done a job on the bodies of water and rivers in the State, as well. I think it provides for us at least an example of what possibly would be a useful means of how we can expand the development and let the State and county work. We recognize there is Federal presence, because of the river there's a great deal of Federal presence. Recognizing that, I think we could use that as a vehicle or a model. Senator EVANS. Representative King, would like to respond to essentially the same question, regarding as far as the adequacy of local land use planning as an alternative. Or do you believe that's even a feasible alternative to some Federal enactment? Mr. KING. As I said in my statements, I just don't think that planning simply at the local level in this case, with enormous quick profit that can be made from the development of some of these scenic treasures, I think it's too much pressure on local government to try and deal with those local development pressures there. There is a unique, valuable, economic development resource here, and I'd like to see that resource preserved. I think it will be boosted tremendously by Federal presence, some form of Federal involvement will boost the economic devlopment and employment in the area here. Senator EVANS. I guess we'll develop this theme many, many times during the day with different people testifying, so they probably ought to be prepared for it. Would you suggest that there are various kinds of lands within the area that is generally considered the Columbia Gorge area, and that among all of these lands some are probably viewed as critical lands or unusually scenic or ones that ought to be preserved? Do you believe that those can adequately be preserved through a zoning procedure? Should those critical lands be purchased? Should there be some kind of restriction on use of those lands? How would you suggest those particular lands, the critical ones, be handled? Senator ZIMMERMAN. I think they should be purchased or there should be a definite protection of those possibly irreversibly damaged spots. I think we do need to identify those critical and those very vital spots. I am convinced that that can be done through some of the agencies already functioning. Now, the nature conservancy group has been functioning in that regard, the heritage program we've set up in the State is also tying in with that. There are foundations that have been doing likewise, to see that they are purchased and are preserved. I think there's no question that we must specifically deal with some of those affected areas. I'm not saying that we should ignore them. Senator EVANS. All right. Mr. KING. I would think that, yes, we do need to either purchase the land outright, or purchase scenic easements if we can't purchase the land outright. I don't see local government having the resources nor the State goverment having the resources to do that. Senator EVANS. OK. I think I'll stop here. We're delighted that you could participate. If you're able to remain and hear other questions and testimony that you would like to add to, we'd be delighted to receive any further written testimony. Thank you, very much. Now, would the State government panel please step forward, and the county government panel No. 1 take their place in the hot seats in front? The State government panel, Patrick Dunn, director, Washington Department of Community Development; Jerry Gilliland, Washington Department of Natural Resources; Jeffrey Breckel, executive director, Oregon and Washington Columbia River Gorge Commission; and Dave Michener representing Governor-elect Booth Gardner. County government panel No. 1 will be Dennis Buchanan, Ed Callahan, Fred Holly, Glenn Palmer, and Vern Veysey. They should sit right down in front. All right, we welcome this first panel. Let me remind you, too, that we have your written testimony, which will be very helpful, and if you can summarize the main points and try to keep within the oral limits we've set, it would be very helpful for those coming behind you. Let me start with Patrick Dunn, director of the Washington Department of Community Development. STATEMENT OF PATRICK DUNN, DIRECTOR, WASHINGTON Mr. DUNN. Thank you, very much, Senator Evans. Our agency has been the lead agency working with other State agencies involved in this issue. The Department of Natural Resources will be talking later. The Department of Commerce is involved because of the tourism issue. The Department of Ecology, Department of Parks, Department of Fishery, and Department of Game. There are some letters that have been submitted to the committee by those agencies. What we've tried to do is to bring those agencies together to work with the local governments and to work with the Federal officials in putting together a proposal. My sense is, and many of us have spent many hours in this room for many years having hearings and discussions, on the Governor's select committee and various congressional committees, that there is some agreement on what needs to be done. Not everybody agrees, but I think there is some agreement, and there is some significant disagreement on how to do it. The two Governors, after a lengthy process, proposed basically Federal legislation which would use the Federal authority to enable a regional approach to take place. There are questions and issues that have been raised about that, but I think that was an ability to try to solve this issue. Others have raised other ways to do it. My sense is, Senator, and I'm glad that you've taken the lead, is that now's the time to try to bring all these disparate ideas together. I think that we have a number of different approaches and we may have an historic opportunity in the next couple of months to move forward with some kind of Federal legislation to begin work on this issue. I know from talking to Governor Atiyeh's office, certainly for the Governor, that we have flexibility and want to look at the best way to do this. We submitted yesterday to the Governor-elect our transition papers. We view the gorge as the No. 1 issue that we need to work on. I'm very pleased that Dave is here and will give some of the positions of the Governor-elect. We will be in contact with his office again today and tomorrow to begin to meld together his concepts with some of the concepts that we have already been working on in the past. The Governor has indicated a willingness and an eagerness for our agency and other State agencies to get to work on this project, to begin to work with you and your staff. Three other quick items. We work a great deal with many of you on economic development and job creation in this area. I visited the site of one or two of the projects this morning. Our sense is that many developers and the financial community are going to wait and see until this issue is settled. There's a major need for jobs and economic development here, and I think the sooner we get this item settled the better we'll be able to move forward on some projects. Last is that many of you I know in the audience are not in favor of Federal legislation and have a concern about it. I would urge you, and also city and county representatives, to also let us and let the Senator know ways that you think legislation should be written if that's what's going to happen, because there are many people who are advocating it, so that they'll have and know your thoughts about that legislation so something does not pass that does not incorporate your ideas. In New York City when all the traffic is in such a way that it does not move, they call it a grid lock. We have a little bit of a gorge lock here. I think we're going to be able to move forward on that and I'll be pleased to spend the rest of the day listening to the testimony. Thank you. Senator EVANS. Thank you, very much. I should insert here that if we get to a point where it looks as though some draft legislation of some kind is desirable at the Federal level, it would certainly be my intent and I'm sure it would be the intent of the committee to once again engage in further hearings, more specific hearings directed to any draft legislation. So, certainly there will be more chances to contribute before any legislation reaches the floor of either committee or the floor of the Senate. Next, Jerry Gilliland, Washington Department of Natural Re sources. STATEMENT OF BRIAN BOYLE, WASHINGTON COMMISSIONER OF PUBLIC LANDS, AS PRESENTED BY JERRY GILLILAND Mr. GILLILAND. Senator Evens, I'm a special assistant to Washington Commissioner of Public Lands, Brian Boyle, and I'm presenting this testimony on his behalf. Commissioner Boyle exercises management authority over about 20,000 acres of State-owned trust land in the gorge. It is his duty to help regulate forest activities on |