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Moreover, those agents were permitted to interrogate suspects being held in Taipei, and the interrogation was very thorough and lasted for many, many hours.

We all want to see justice done and we can demonstrate our good intent by adopting this additional sentence to the resolution.

Had our Government been more serious about addressing the concerns over extradition procedures that the authorities in Taiwan have been expressing in recent years, it is entirely possible that this entire resolution would not have been necessary, Mr. Chairman.

I am reluctant to make this observation also, but the thought does come to mind about the deficiencies that exist in our own criminal justice system at the present time.

I believe it is entirely possible, even likely, that should the men involved in this murder be brought to trial in Taiwan, they will face a much stiffer punishment than if they are brought to trial here, as we heard from some previous testimony today.

A case such as this could be dismissed on a technicality here in the United States but in Taiwan they would face the full brunt of the law, that, as I understand it, could even bring about the death penalty.

The two gang members who were arrested last November have, according to the New York Times on February 5, had charges filed against them, including the charges of murder and illegal possession of fire arms in violation of public order.

No one here can kid themselves into believing that these men are facing any kind of a bright future in Taiwan. If they were brought to trial here in the United States, however, there is no ironclad guarantee that there is going to be some greater degree of justice meted out.

Let me close citing, for example, the very serious incident in New York City back in 1970, when Chiang Ching-kuo, who is now president of the Republic of China, was shot at as he was leaving his hotel here in this country. Here is a case involving an assassination attempt against a senior official of a foreign government and yet no one was ever even brought to trial in this country. Our judicial system is hardly perfect when it comes to difficult cases like this involving another country.

I think that this amendment will go a long way toward establishing some kind of a formal agreement between these two countries that will deal not only with this issue but, as my chairman and my ranking member have mentioned, other issues that have taken place in the past and may happen in the future, and I would like to see it adopted.

Mr. SOLARZ. Let me say to the gentleman that I think that he has identified very legitimately a serious problem, which is the absence of any formal arrangement between Taiwan and the United States that would provide for the establishment of an orderly procedure for the extradition of people wanted for violating the laws of one country that are currently in another country.

I have, however, one problem with the amendment as the gentleman has drafted it. The gentleman's amendment talks about the desirability of negotiating an extradition treaty or some other formal arrangement regarding extradition procedures. This is per

R.

haps only a technical problem but inasmuch as we don't have treaties with governments with which we don't have diplomatic relations by definition, we could not have an extradition treaty with Taiwan.

We could, of course, have an agreement between the American Institute in Taiwan and the Coordination Council on North American Affairs, and therefore I would like to offer a substitute to the amendment proposed by the gentleman from New York that would in effect call for the conclusion of an extradition agreement between specifically the CCNAA and AIT.

And if Mr. Bush could see that that substitute amendment is distributed, we could then proceed with its consideration.

Mr. BUSH. Substitute offered by Mr. Solarz. Strike out all after the resolving clause and insert in lieu thereof the following: That it is the sense of Congress that, one, the American Institute in Taiwan and the Coordination Council for North American Affairs should take steps to conclude an extradition agreement which meets the interest of both sides; and two, in the interim, the Taiwan authorities should cooperate fully in the case of Henry Liu by delivering to the United States for trial those citizens of Taiwan charged by authorities in the United States in connection with the murder of Henry Liu.

Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Chairman, may I ask you a couple of questions about your substitute amendment?

Mr. SOLARZ. Certainly.

Mr. SOLOMON. I don't think I have offered an amendment in this committee that you haven't offered a substitute.

Mr. SOLARZ. Hope springs eternal.

Mr. SOLOMON. This one doesn't look too bad.

Do I understand that you are striking the entire resolve clause of your resolution and then inserting this amendment, the substitute amendment?

Mr. SOLARZ. That's right.

Mr. SOLOMON. On line 4 of your amendment, your substitute, you say "take steps to conclude an extradition agreement." Now, with this kind of an extradition agreement, are you referring to a general extradition agreement that would refer to not only the Liu case but other cases?

Mr. SOLARZ. Yes; precisely.

Mr. SOLOMON. That is good.

Mr. SOLARZ. You have identified, I think, through your questioning in this hearing the existence of a problem which is that we have no extradition agreement with Taiwan and they claim under their existing law that they are not permitted to extradite people where they don't have such an agreement. We presumably have the same problem.

Mr. SOLOMON. I think that is really very, very good. You know, the Republic of China, Taiwan, in spite of being derecognized by this country, has very strong ties here. They are, I think, our sixth largest trading partner in the entire world, and certainly when we have those kinds of close arrangements, we are going to have problems like this. So that's good.

Let me ask one further question about line 8.

It makes reference to delivering "for trial those citizens of Taiwan charged by authorities in the United States in connection with the murder of Henry Liu." You say "citizens of Taiwan."

I am just wondering if at a later date, if there were other people named who were not citizens of Taiwan. Do you mean to put citizens of Taiwan in there or is that just people charged who may be in Taiwan? Suppose three other people showed up later on who were not citizens of Taiwan.

Mr. SOLARZ. I think the gentleman has a good point. We have no reason to believe at the present time others were involved, but they may be. Supposing we said "those citizens of Taiwan or any other individuals in Taiwan."

Mr. SOLOMON. That would be fine.

Mr. SOLARZ. I would ask unanimous consent to add the words "or any other person in Taiwan." OK?

Mr. SOLOMON. I think you have improved on my amendment and I would certainly accept yours and support it.

Mr. SOLARZ. If there is no further debate, the first vote will be on the substitute to the Solomom amendment offered by the chair

man.

All those in favor, say "aye;" those opposed, say "nay." The "ayes" have it.

The vote now occurs on the amendment offered by Mr. Solomon as substituted by the amendment offered by the chairman.

All those in favor, say "aye;" opposed, say "nay." The "ayes" appear to have it.

Is there any further debate on the resolution as amendment? Mr. LEACH. Mr. Chairman, I would move the adoption of the resolution as amended and only make one brief further comment, and that is as it relates to extradition.

There have been comments in this committee complimenting the FBI and the State Department and some complimenting activities of the Taiwanese authorities in this investigation. I think we ought to as a committee recognize that the Daly City authorities at the local level have, from what I have been able to piece together, conducted themselves extraordinarily well and have been the leading force in developing the charges that have arisen.

I just think that without this type of amendment it would be very frustrating to law enforcement throughout the United States to conduct an investigation, by people to bear what they think is responsibility and then be enabled to try them.

So I would only say that I think this resolution ought to be passed but this committee ought to recognize that local authorities have done a bang-up job.

Mr. SOLARZ. Well, I think the gentleman's point is well taken. Let me also say to the members of the committee that we are informed that in order for the AIT to actually negotiate an extradition agreement with the CCNAA that would have the force of law in the United States, it would be necessary for the Congress to enact legislation authorizing them to conclude such an agreement. We have expressed a sense of Congress it should be done here, but I am asking the staff to prepare the following legislation and we will circulate it for cosponsorship in the full committee.

The vote will now come on final passage of the regulation.

All those in favor, say "aye;" all those opposed, say "nay." The "ayes" have it.

[Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the subcommittee recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.]

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