The Chairman. Thank you, sir.

Now, we have two very distinguished citizens. One is the Chairman of the Navajo Nation of Window Rock, Arizona, the Honorable Peter MacDonald, and the other is Chairman of the Hopi Tribe from Kykotsmovi, Arizona, the Honorable Ivan Sidney.

I would like to have both of you come up here, if you will.

For those of you who have said this is impossible, I want you to see the two chairmen sitting together. I expect that by 5:30 this afternoon, everything will be resolved.

Well, in order to make this very democratic, how about going alphabetically. Mr. MacDonald, M comes before S. It is good to have you here with us again.

STATEMENT OF HON. PETER MacDONALD, CHAIRMAN, THE NAVAJO TRIBE, WINDOW ROCK, AZ

Mr. Macdonald. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

I would like to express my sincere appreciation for having us here today to talk about one of the most important problems facing the two tribes. I know that the tragedy of relocation is something that we are talking about here, and we want to put an end to that.

I was told that a typical American moves once every two years. The families we are talking about in the 1882 area have lived on the same spot on the same piece of land for generations. The only way of life they know is what they are doing today, and they have been doing this for many years.

We of the Navajo Tribe have tried to bend over backwards to cooperate to work out something, even though we know the law is unjust. We have had numerous meetings with the commission. We had almost weekly meetings with the affected families.

We have had meetings with the BIA who are now over in the new lands, even though, in many instances, they say in one instance that they have jurisdiction and don't need the Navajo Tribe's approval and they can do whatever they want to. On the other hand, they say "Why don't you approve this, Mr. Chairman, before we go on." We constantly continue to fight over who has jurisdiction.

It got to the point where I even got a piece of paper drafted and said why don't we put our thoughts on this piece of paper as to how we are going to cooperate, because I feel very bad that the process of moving people from one place to another is happening without the Navajo Nation's input and involvement.

So, Mr. Chairman, I have prepared a statement which I want to submit to the committee, but I would also like to take a little time here to bring certain points home.

The Chairman. Mr. Chairman, may I assure you that you have all the time you need and want. I will be here all night, if you want me to.

Mr. Macdonald. Thank you very much, sir.

The Chairman. I just cancelled a trip to New York for that purpose. May I also assure you that your full statement and that of Chairman Sidney will be made part of the record.

Mr. Macdonald. Thank you. I hope that my colleague, Chairman Sidney, will be patient here while I just take things off my heart.

Mr. Sidney. Mr. Chairman, I will just make him nervous.

Mr. Macdonald. You know, we are all talking about how it is that the relocation up to now, Public Law 93-531, has not worked. This is the 13th year that we have been trying to perfect this law. Today, we are here to talk about the reauthorization of the work of the commission.

I believe the performance of the Relocation Commission, however well intentioned they may be, has made a more terrible situation than we started out with earlier. I would like to briefly talk about that performance, since that is the key issue in evaluation of S. 1236.

Everything is so bad. I know that you members of the committee sense this just by listening to your questions and also hearing the responses from the commission. As you said earlier, Mr. Chairman, they are the people who have had the longest experience with this work.

They can't even give you a figure that they can agree upon as to how many people are really affected, what their needs are, where they are, what they are doing, what their problems are. It has been this way for a number of years, and I don't know that it is ever going to improve.

This makes me wonder how it was back in 1800 when we had no telephones and no way for Indians to come here and testify before the Senate or the House. You have people coming back here and telling Congress how bad the Indians were, what they are doing. Consequently, many bad laws were made.

Even with today's modern technology, we cannot get a clear answer as to how many people are involved here and what the costs are. So, it really bothers me that we are playing with the lives of many thousands of innocent people.

I have a great respect for the commission, Mr. Hawley Atkinson, Ralph Watkins, and Sandy Massetto. However, we all know that reports come in, some audits have been made which all goes to tell us that the work that they have been charged with has been "botched up," in the words of Congressman Yates.

So, to make this commission more efficient by amendments to this reauthorization bill is very important.

I could go on and say many things about some of the shortcomings and things that have really fallen through the cracks, but, basically, there is not enough planning. There is not sufficient time devoted to really understand what we are talking about here in terms of economic development, putting people in alien environments, and so forth.

The same is true with the BIA which lately entered into this program by trying to move people from HPL into so-called new lands. As I said earlier, they came in like gangbusters and said we are going to move Navajo, we are going to build houses, and are going to put them in there.

And they did. They built a house, they put the road in, and discovered that they forgot to look for water. So, after they built the house and the road, there was no water nearby that house and that

r

road. The ended up beginning to drill all around and ended up finding a water source maybe five or six miles away.

This is the kind of action that is going on, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. So much activity is going on without proper coordination, without proper planning where people are suffering and people are hurting. I, for one, would like to end this human suffering.

With respect to the amendments, S. 1236, I welcome the opportunity to testify on this bill and the amendments recently offered by Senator McCain. I want to commend Senator McCain for recognizing the need for drastic reform for the commission. I would like to also commend you, Senator Inouye, for holding this hearing.

We the Navajo Nation support the recognition that is highlighted in S. 1236 that more needs to be done to fund the housing so urgently needed. Many people have been moved off the HPL and are still waiting for years.

Senator McCain proposes to add language to the bill to greatly alter the way in which relocation is conducted. Overall, these are very positive amendments.

I would like at this time to address certain aspects and offer some suggestions for improvement from the Navajos' point of view.

We definitely support the long-needed accountability provision. The idea of a single commissioner has great merit, so far as I am concerned, and someone suggested that this commissioner's term or tenure be renewed on a certain time basis. That is very good, too. That way, you can hold someone accountable for the work that they are supposed to be doing.

However, I have some concern that the new commissioner will be under the Secretary of Interior. I will come to the reason I have that concern.

If the commissioner is to be under the Secretary of Interior, then it must be understood that he be completely insulated from all other departmental pressures. The commissioner needs to be completely separated from the BIA. Our main concern here is that funds that would normally be appropriated to the Navajo Tribe are being diminished to pay for this relocation program. That must stop, because you are just robbing Peter to pay Paul, and we can't allow that.

The idea that reports be made to Congress is also a very good idea, especially the requirement for the second report. I believe the amendment asks that a report be made within 6 months and then that another report be made within 12 months to report on the economic development plan and the funding needs for what has to be done. That is very important. We need to have a long-range plan for these people.

I have no problem with the elimination of Federal funding for legal fees for litigation. I know this hurts both tribes, but perhaps this will be our contribution to the national problem of trying to fight the deficit.

In the long run, we support the suggested changes, particularly in the Bennett freeze area. Since 1966, the Navajo and Hopi tribes have tried to negotiate a number of things in that area, and it has been very, very difficult to agree without having many of the things which are needed for health, emergency, and public purposes.

For instance, the Tuba City airport saw a terrible tragedy a couple of years ago, because we don't have a safe airport, and there is a large Indian Health Service hospital there. The airport is within the Navajo Administrative area, but it is very inadequate. They evacuate patients out of there almost every day and every night, and we cannot improve the existing airport or even go outside that area to have a very usable airport for everybody.

These are the problems in the Bennett freeze area. So, the idea that the newly appointed commissioner can make decisions to free up some things that are for the public good is beneficial. The airport is going to be used by both the Navajos and the Hopis and by anyone who wants to use it, but because the two tribes cannot come to an agreement, by law, we have not been able to do anything about the airport at Tuba City.

Yet, as I said, 2 years ago, we had an airplane crash and were trying to evacuate patients out of that area.

So, the amendment in that area is very important for the alleviation of some of the suffering that goes on at the present time.

These amendments to the law, S. 1236, can only go so far, and I want to commend the committee for that. But I submit that the amendments do not go far enough. It really bothers me to see the continuing bits and pieces kind of approach that it is taken continually sending new people down there, whenever, somebody says, give me the job. I will get those guys. It is like Kitt Carson back in the 1860's said I will get rid of those Navajos or any number of those people coming out to the West and giving the impression that they are going to do this kind of thing.

Yet, this is a real human problem. If we are really interested in solving this problem that faces my brother, Ivan Sidney, his people, and myself, if we really want to put an end to hardship and strife, then we need to go a step further.

These amendments, as I said, are good and serve a purpose, and they are badly needed, but we must do more. A lot of people focus on housing. This is not a housing project. The BIA would like to tell you how it is that they built some houses and that this is a housing project.

This is a human problem, and I would like everyone working on this to view it as a human problem, not a housing project.

So, that brings me to my remark that the basic law that we are talking about, Public Law 93-531, must be changed to reflect what we have learned over the past 13 years since the enactment of the law and put an end to all of these sufferings. Too many people are hurting. Too many people are dying because they are not able to find a way out of the situation in which we have put them.

This is not so much a tribal government versus a tribal government as it is people problem. There are people, individual families, living out there, traditional families in rural areas. In many instances, there is no electricity. The only thing they know is to herd the sheep, to go gather wood, to bring water in and make their own way the best they can.

These are the people that we are talking about. They are now trying to exist the best way they know how and save their culture on the land on which they have lived for years.

S. 1236, as I said, we support, but it does not address the 1934 litigation, the 1882 litigations, or the 9,000 or so Navajos now being affected by the Bennett freeze. It does not address the potential claims coming that may be in now against the Navajo from the San Juan Paiute and the fact that there are and will continue to be a number of families who simply will not move. These families have said so, and I am sure the Relocation Commission and the BIA will attest to that. They have said they are not going to move, even at the point of a gun.

So, without major change to Public Law 93-531, the tragedy of relocation will continue and not only continue, but will continue to grow, and we may be here for another 15 or 20 years continuing to talk about why and who didn't do what.

So, I pray, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, that Congress will realize what a needless tragedy has been inflicted on some of the most innocent residents of our country. I hope and pray that Congress will resist the temptation to ignore these afflicted people and turn instead to make justice out of injustice.

We recognize that the Hopis have a claim. We don't deny that, but we also say that Navajos have a claim, too.

I, for one, say let's settle it in a way that is humane. Let's not continue to honor property rights to the exclusion or even destruction of human rights.

Even animals being lifted out of their own environments and put into a zoo are not put into a dry place without any water, without any food. We know that when the deer is out in the woods, by their nature, they look for water and they look for shelter and a place to eat. When you lift that deer out of its environment and put it over here on the streets of Washington and put a fence around that animal, that animal does not know where its waterhole is, where its shelter is, where its food is.

That is the same situation we are facing here with these traditional Navajos. These are the things that disturb me. As you said earlier, Mr. Chairman, this week the eyes of the world are focused on Washington, DC as the leaders of the two greatest superpowers meet to discuss arms control and human rights. We have before us today a human tragedy of horrendous proportions. In our own country, we are being told that human rights—the right to practice religious traditions, the right to earn a living and support oneself, the basic right to safe and decent shelter—must take a back seat to property interests.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, we have the power to end this tragedy together. I implore you to work with me in bringing this shameful chapter in our history to a just conclusion consistent with compassion and human rights.

Thank you very much.

[Prepared statement of Mr. MacDonald appears in the appendix.]

The Chairman. I thank you very much, Chairman MacDonald. As always, you are very eloquent.

I would like to now recognize the distinguished Chairman of the Hopi Nation, Chairman Sidney. Welcome, sir.