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Mr. FARWELL. In a general way.

Senator BROWN. Well, the Ford Co. makes all of its cars for the Canadian market in Canada, does it not?

Mr. FARWELL. Yes.

Senator BROWN. Does he have any advantage in shipping his Canadian made Fords to England?

Mr. FARWELL. Yes; from an exchange point of view, if from no other. During the past few weeks, we found orders originating in Trinidad, for example, and going to Canada, but requiring all invoices to be made in sterling; not in Canadian dollars or American dollars.

Senator BROWN. As a general proposition, the French or British made car costing substantially the same is not as good an automobile as the American made car?

Mr. FARWELL. I would like to put it just a little differently, if I may, that for the same price in some other country, the American made car is a better car than the competing car of other manufacture. Senator BROWN. And that is because of our mass production of cars?

Mr. FARWELL. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. Mr. Dillingham.

STATEMENT OF H. L. DILLINGHAM, REPRESENTING THE AMERICAN GLASSWARE ASSOCIATION

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. C. B. Roe testified for your association before the Ways and Means Committee?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. Yes. He is unable to be here, and I am here representing him for the same association.

The CHAIRMAN. That testimony that was given there has been in the hands of the committee and will be given every consideration, and we hope that you will not reiterate it.

Mr. DILLINGHAM. No, sir.

My name is H. L. Dillingham, business manager of the American Glassware Association, which has a membership representing an estimated 80 percent by volume of the glassware industry, excluding window and plate glass, mirrors, and so forth, and containers and bottles. I want to make that clear, that it does not cover window and plate glass or containers or bottles.

The CHAIRMAN. Are Libby-Owens a member of your organization? Mr. DILLINGHAM. No; they make plate glass and flat glass. The CHAIRMAN. They do not come in competition with your line? Mr. DILLINGHAM. They are not in competition with us; it is another branch. This is what you may know as miscellaneous glassware. Senator GUFFEY. This is freshly blown glass, some of these samples that you have spread out here?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. Yes. Of course there are machine-made and hand-made.

Senator GUFFEY. I understand.

The CHAIRMAN. Are they members of your organization, the ones that make it by machinery too?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. Yes, sir. 80 percent by volume of this industry is represented in our association.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any competition between the machinemade glass that you are going to talk about and that which is made by hand labor?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. I welcome this opportunity to bring it out to you. I had omitted saying anything about it to you, because it is in our testimony before the Committee on Ways and Means. If you wish me to go into that, I would be very glad, but it is all written out very carefully there.

The CHAIRMAN. There is competition within the industry?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. Very little. That is the part which Congress never seems to have gotten straight on, that hand made ware has very little competition with machine-made ware, and that is fully explained in our testimony, particularly in the Belgian treaty. That became a part of the Ways and Means testimony. However, I will be very glad to go into it more fully if you wish to have me, but it is in there.

Senator GUFFEY. We can read it in that testimony.

Mr. DILLINGHAM. The Association appeared in opposition to the extension of reciprocal trade agreements at the Ways and Means Committee hearing and I wish to supplement this testimony by the addition of a few facts and arguments which were not then presented, and I shall take less than 15 minutes of your valuable time.

The division of the glassware industry for which I speak does a yearly volume of over $86,000,000, according to the 1937 United States Biennial Census. Manufacturers in this industry are not in favor of the trade agreement method of lowering tariffs, because they have received no benefits from trade agreements and that portion of the industry producing handmade glassware has been decidedly hurt by trade agreements which have been made.

The hand-made glassware industry produces tumblers, stemware, tableware, illuminating glassware, and various kinds of novelties. Most of these types of glassware can be made by three different processes. They can be either hand-blown, hand-pressed, or made by automatic machine. The hand-blown and hand-pressed glassware are usually classed together and called hand-made glassware. The second group of automatic-made ware is commonly called machine-made glassware. I have brought samples to show you just what I am talking about and to clarify your understanding of these types.

This is quite important to you gentlemen to understand our position in this matter. These pieces here [indicating] are what is called hand-made glassware. This [indicating] is called a hand-blown piece of ware. It is entirely different than the machine-made.

Now, this [indicating] is pressed ware, and so is this one [indicating]. That means that they are made on presses which are pulled down by hand and the ware is finished individually through a process known as the glory hole process, and the ware is completely finished by the application of fire, and in some instances by grinding. That is rather a high labor content type of production. So much for the hand-made. In the so-called machine-made process, you have ware of this type [indicating]. You pay a nickel for this in the chain store, and a dime for this [indicating].

Now, you say, what is the difference between them? Let me explain that by showing you the same pattern machine-made and the same pattern hand-made [indicating]. You see the mold marks show in

the machine-made ware, the finish is hazy, and I am sure the sparkle on a table of the hand-made ware far surpasses that of the machinemade ware. It is in this class of goods that we have a steady demand by people who desire to have good glassware on their table.

Senator GUFFEY. What does that one sell for? [Indicating.]

Mr. DILLINGHAM. This one [indicating] sells for $1.25, and the other for a nickel [indicating]. It is exactly the difference between sterling silver that I know you all like on your table, and the 10-cent imitation which anyone can buy.

Senator GUFFEY. Anyone in the world can see the difference.

Mr. DILLINGHAM. But that seems to be the great difficulty. Every time the glassware industry comes before you, everybody says "It is glass," and sure, it is, but you have pianos and lumber, and the same difference exists between hand-blown and machine-made glassware.

The CHAIRMAN. Were they included in the Belgian agreement? Mr. DILLINGHAM. Yes, sir; this ware was all included in the Belgian agreement that is now under consideration. It has not been passed, or course, but it is under consideration.

The CHAIRMAN. Were they included in the Czechoslovakian agreement?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. They were, and the duty was cut from 60 percent to 50 percent in this glassware. In illuminating glassware, it was cut, if I recall rightly, from 70 to 45 percent, and the machine-made glassware of this type was cut from 50 to 25 percent.

The CHAIRMAN. The Czechoslovakian agreement is not before us, is it?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. Not actively, but you will recall that that agreement has not been canceled; it has simply been set aside, and I call your attention to the fact that at any time the Czechoslovakian Nation becomes existent, that all it needs is a Presidential proclamation and that treaty is in force.

The CHAIRMAN. But now it is not.

Mr. DILLINGHAM. At the present time it is not, and we are very happy as a result of that.

The CHAIRMAN. But you are fearful of the future?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. That is why we are here.

The CHAIRMAN. For fear that Czechoslovakia might come back as a government?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. Or the Belgium agreement might be enacted. Senator GUFFEY. Where is the best hand-made glass made? In what country? Is it in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, or Belgium? Mr. DILLINGHAM. Let us say, where is good glassware, not the best-let us not get into superlatives.

Senator GUFFEY. Where is the highest grade of glassware made? Mr. DILLINGHAM. In Sweden, in France, in Belgium, and Czechoslovakia which is now out of the picture.

Senator GUFFEY. I suppose you know that we are trying to get a good many of those experienced Czechoslovakians here in this country. They want to learn the secrets of how to mix the glass on this colored proposition for cut glass.

Mr. DILLINGHAM. There are about four companies who are trying to get the men here to show them how to do it; the bosses, not the workmen. There are four people involved.

The CHAIRMAN. As a matter of fact, these are not in the present Belgian agreement, as I understand.

Mr. DILLINGHAM. These items of hand-made and hand-pressed ware are now before the negotiating committee as to whether or not they will cut the duty on them.

The CHAIRMAN. They have just been cited to the American industry that that is one of the things that they will give testimony about. Mr. DILLINGHAM. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. That is as far as they have gone?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. That put fear into you?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. Just the same as the opposition has feared that you fellows would not pass this extension. We are both worried.

The CHAIRMAN. What side are you on? Don't you want it extended?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. No; we are in opposition to it.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Go ahead.

Mr. DILLINGHAM. The branch of the industry which has been most hurt by the trade agreements is the hand-made glassware section. The machine-made glassware manufacturers have not been affected to any great extent by the trade treaties.

Senator GUFFEY. Let me ask you a question. What percentage of tableware that is sold in this country is hand-made and how much is machine-made?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. I will come to that, if you don't mind, a little later.

Senator GUFFEY. Very well.

Mr. DILLINGHAM. The machine-made glassware manufacturers have not been affected to any great extent by the trade treaties, because foreign manufacturers have not yet made machine table glassware as good as that produced by American factories. It is confined, mind you, to machine-made table glassware, this type here [indicating] is what I am talking about.

Senator GUFFEY. That is what sells in the five-and-ten-cent store? Mr. DILLINGHAM. That is right. They have not equaled that type of ware. Also, their selling price advantage, due to low labor costs abroad, is not as great, because of the small dollar value of labor increment in each piece. American machine operations and technical control have also aided American factories to produce this type of ware faster and better than in foreign countries. If, at a later date, quality and manufacturing technique of foreign-made machine glassware are improved, the low wage scales paid abroad will become a serious factor to this branch of the industry and any reduction in tariff would work a hardship on the American machinemade glassware manufacturer. Illuminating glassware manufacturers, which employ very largely hand-made operations in the manufacture of their products, keenly felt the Czech competition in the stock inexpensive illuminating glassware lines during the existence of Czech treaty.

Our discussion from this point on will be largely concerning handmade tableware, because it is this class of ware which has been definitely hurt by the operation of trade agreements. It is important for you to know that 3 percent of the total volume of the entire glassware, including all types, window glass, plate, and so forth, produced in this country is hand-made tableware. This section of the industry, however, employs 15 percent of the total persons engaged in the manufacture of glass in this country. Thirty percent of the total imports of all glass products into this country is hand-made tableware, and only 1 percent of all the glass exported is handmade tableware.

Gentlemen, let me repeat that to you-3 percent of the volume in this hand-made tableware; 15 percent of the total people engaged in this country in making glass, including window glass, bottles, containers, and so forth; and 30 percent of the total imports of all glass into this country is hand-made tableware, and 1 percent of all of the glass exported is hand-made tableware.

We cannot export our ware because of the low prices that are charged for the foreign ware in the free markets of the world, due to the low wage scales paid in Europe.

Senator BROWN. Let me see if I get one point there. What part of the American market do the foreign interests have in the hand-made market?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. That is my next statement.

Senator GUFFEY. Is your percentage in volume or dollars and cents? Mr. DILLINGHAM. That from the 1937 figures and is in dollars. Senator GUFFEY. That includes a lot of the high-priced, expensive hand-made tableware that we do not make in this country, does it not? Mr. DILLINGHAM. The finest glassware made in this world is made in the United States, and the people who come from abroad come to my office and want samples of it.

Senator GUFFEY. I am glad to hear that. Where do they make it in this country?

Mr. DILLINGHAM. I cannot mention companies by name here, but in private I will be very glad to tell you.

From the facts that I have shown you, you can readily see that the tariff is a very important matter to the manufacturers of this type of ware.

During the year 1938, when the Czech trade agreement was in operation, more than 25 percent of the domestic consumption of handmade tableware was imported ware made by foreign manufacturers.

That answers your point, I think.

During this period, until April 1939, when the treaty was declared unoperative, the hand-made table glassware industry slowly disintegrated, particularly those companies making inexpensive barware and promotional stemware. During the year the Czech agreement was in effect, the market for hand-pressed ware was continually sagging in volume, and selling prices of all hand-made ware were depressed, due to the low prices at which foreign-made hand-made table glassware were offered in this country. Much large departmentstore and chain-store business in this class of ware was furnished by foreign manufacturers simply because the selling price of that ware landed in this country, duty and transportation paid, was at least 20 percent less than comparable ware could be purchased from American manufacturers.

Let me drive that point home to you-20 percent less. In some instances, the prices of foreign-made ware were so low that they were less than the cost of labor and material in this country.

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